Human Model 8841 Speakers...Best Kept Secret on the Market ?

Crossoverless · « **on:** 20 Jul 2016, 09:42 pm »

Could this be the Giant Killers we have been waiting for....One of the Best At Any Price! ?

http://www.humanspeakers.com/human/8841.htm

http://www.nhmade.com/members/humanspeakers/

restrav · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Jul 2016, 09:49 pm »

Quote from: Crossoverless on 20 Jul 2016, 09:42 pm

Could this be the Giant Killers we have been waiting for....One of the Best At Any Price! ?

no.

opnly bafld · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Jul 2016, 09:52 pm »

No way are they better than Bose 901s.

charmerci · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Jul 2016, 12:03 am »

Hard to get past the name. Human Speakers?

JLM · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Jul 2016, 12:55 am »

What makes a speaker exceptional?

1.) Drivers (few details provided)

2.) Crossover (few details provided)

3.) Cabinet design/construction (few details provided)

There's warm fuzzy marketing fluff and they're made in New Hampshire, but no solid facts or independent opinions/testing.

Doublej · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Jul 2016, 01:10 am »

The inverted dome tweeter and the fact that Human makes the current Winslow Burhoe speaker makes me wonder if Winslow had a hand in designing these.

dB Cooper · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Jul 2016, 02:39 am »

Quote from: JLM on 21 Jul 2016, 12:55 am

What makes a speaker exceptional?

1.) Drivers (few details provided)

2.) Crossover (few details provided)

3.) Cabinet design/construction (few details provided)

There's warm fuzzy marketing fluff and they're made in New Hampshire, but no solid facts or independent opinions/testing.

A pretty good amount of information seems to be available if you explore the site a little bit:
http://www.humanspeakers.com/diy/drivers.htm. Specifications for the individual drivers are accessible by clicking o the items in the list.

Also it's perhaps worth considering that they have been in business for almost 30 years, no small feat in the fickle, flavor-of-the-day, wonderful-today-trash-tomorrow audio world- just maybe they're doing something right?

JLM · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Jul 2016, 10:42 am »

Quote from: dB Cooper on 21 Jul 2016, 02:39 am

A pretty good amount of information seems to be available if you explore the site a little bit:
http://www.humanspeakers.com/diy/drivers.htm. Specifications for the individual drivers are accessible by clicking o the items in the list.

Also it's perhaps worth considering that they have been in business for almost 30 years, no small feat in the fickle, flavor-of-the-day, wonderful-today-trash-tomorrow audio world- just maybe they're doing something right?

But no reviews, even by customers over 30 years? And the speaker information doesn't specify which driver is used (for instance which 8 inch woofer). At least the price listing gives a clue as to how much the real veneer cost and note that finishes are listed before specifications. Wonder how many of the $654,321.99 "Inhuman" speakers they've sold? Why was this thread started anyway? I have no axe to grind, just trying to be objective.

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Jul 2016, 11:28 am »

It looks like he's building some EPI speakers, only from memory but it seems like his more modest offerings are duplicates of old EPI models. Except the top model that the op linked which I can't place so might be his own design. The drivers are handmade by the proprietor I assume to replace unobtainable product for his repair business. A natural outgrowth would then be to build speakers out of them. Seems straightforward.

jlawson1977 · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Jul 2016, 02:46 pm »

Human speakers sound very good! I heard the first version of the 8841 many years ago. A good friend in New York purcbased a pair of them. The sound is is definitely of the New England late 70's - early 80's era only much better detail and imaging.with a pleasing warmth to the mids and nice open airy highs. Bass was full without being boomy. I enjoyed them. As a big fan of Genesis Physics speakers ( owned the I+ and the III+ models) I've had the chance to deal with the owner Huw (hence the name "Hu"man) for both parts and information. He helped me do a full rebuild of my Genny III+ from crossovers to refoaming to replacement tweeters. Loved those speakers for 15 years. Huw is a good man to deal with, or was way back then. He knows his stuff and enjoys what he does. Glad to see he is still putting out quality goods.

fredgarvin · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Jul 2016, 04:16 pm »

Quote from: Letitroll98 on 21 Jul 2016, 11:28 am

It looks like he's building some EPI speakers, only from memory but it seems like his more modest offerings are duplicates of old EPI models. Except the top model that the op linked which I can't place so might be his own design. The drivers are handmade by the proprietor I assume to replace unobtainable product for his repair business. A natural outgrowth would then be to build speakers out of them. Seems straightforward.

Yes, Human speakers have been around at least as long as the internet.

you're right, he does EPI, and Genesis designs- if I recall correctly, he started out selling their actual speakers that he obtained at their demise. He also sold used models back then.

dB Cooper · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Jul 2016, 07:35 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 21 Jul 2016, 10:42 am

But no reviews, even by customers over 30 years? And the speaker information doesn't specify which driver is used (for instance which 8 inch woofer). At least the price listing gives a clue as to how much the real veneer cost and note that finishes are listed before specifications. Wonder how many of the $654,321.99 "Inhuman" speakers they've sold? Why was this thread started anyway? I have no axe to grind, just trying to be objective.

Pretty sure the $654,321.99 speakers are a joke... Considering almost all the rest of his designs (the model mentioned by the OP being an exception) are simple, unassuming two way acoustic suspension systems.

As for the lack of reviews, I can see why, say, Stereophile or TAS wouldn't be interested in reviewing speakers that are low cost reboots of ~40yo designs- For one thing, if they gave them good reviews, they'd have to answer for the reviews of the $10,000-and-up speakers they and their advertisers want you to buy. Plus there's little "revolutionary" about them to titillate the readership. Online reviewers also have to sell the 'sizzle' even though they don't have to contend with the production and distribution costs of print. I take reviews more and more with a grain of salt these days. It's just somebody's opinion. I agree with you that some customer testimonials at least would be a smart move though.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 Jul 2016, 08:07 pm »

Quote from: dB Cooper on 21 Jul 2016, 07:35 pm

Pretty sure the $654,321.99 speakers are a joke... Considering almost all the rest of his designs (the model mentioned by the OP being an exception) are simple, unassuming two way acoustic suspension systems.

As for the lack of reviews, I can see why, say, Stereophile or TAS wouldn't be interested in reviewing speakers that are low cost reboots of ~40yo designs- For one thing, if they gave them good reviews, they'd have to answer for the reviews of the $10,000-and-up speakers they and their advertisers want you to buy. Plus there's little "revolutionary" about them to titillate the readership. Online reviewers also have to sell the 'sizzle' even though they don't have to contend with the production and distribution costs of print. I take reviews more and more with a grain of salt these days. It's just somebody's opinion. I agree with you that some customer testimonials at least would be a smart move though.

Yeah, there's getting to be a sharp division in the audio market between ever the increasing $$$ of high end goods sold through dealers and high value/direct sales typical of the vendors here on AC. As far as I can tell there's VERY little overlap, almost two completely separate markets... Folks looking for value can't afford the high priced luxury market and folks with $2M paintings on their walls won't take the time to research value oriented direct-market companies. It's a reflection of society and I can only hope the middle class regains a sense of financial security once more.

srb · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Jul 2016, 02:01 am »

I know you can't judge a book by its cover, but the drivers (woofers) look fairly cheap to me, much like the Parts Express $10 - $15 woofers. I owned some EPI speakers (EPI 201) back in the day, and their OEM woofers were also quite cheaply made.

In the EPI speaker, the sealed cabinet probably prevented the woofers from performing at their worst, but the quality of the bass and midrange was average to below average. The inverted dome tweeter was the better part of that design but still didn't make up for the deficiencies of the midbass driver(s) or crossover.

I'm not sure why "Best Kept Secret" is part of the topic title. I'm just not seeing the potential for anything that special here.

Steve

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Jul 2016, 05:53 am »

Well Huw's history is pretty solid:
He came from Genesis which, in turn, was spawned by ex-EPI employees: http://www.humanspeakers.com/human/story.htm

He also is the exclusive builder of the Silent Speaker 2 http://www.humanspeakers.com/human/ss2.htm
- designed by the venerable Winslow Burhoe of AR, KLH, EPI, Boston Acoustics, and Energy fame—(he was involved in the design of the famous Energy 22 http://directacoustics.com/?page_id=128
http://directacoustics.com/

Not bleeding edge, but Huw has legitimacy, it would seem.

JLM · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Jul 2016, 12:14 pm »

Quote from: jlawson1977 on 21 Jul 2016, 02:46 pm

Human speakers sound very good! I heard the first version of the 8841 many years ago. A good friend in New York purcbased a pair of them. The sound is is definitely of the New England late 70's - early 80's era only much better detail and imaging.with a pleasing warmth to the mids and nice open airy highs. Bass was full without being boomy. I enjoyed them. As a big fan of Genesis Physics speakers ( owned the I+ and the III+ models) I've had the chance to deal with the owner Huw (hence the name "Hu"man) for both parts and information. He helped me do a full rebuild of my Genny III+ from crossovers to refoaming to replacement tweeters. Loved those speakers for 15 years. Huw is a good man to deal with, or was way back then. He knows his stuff and enjoys what he does. Glad to see he is still putting out quality goods.

Sorry, but I cringe when reading "New England late 70's (sound)", "pleasing warmth", "airy highs", and "bass was full". At least it's an admission of audiophile flaws - seeking what we want (individual entertainment factors) rather than accurate reproduction of the artist's performance. And audiophiles seem, like big game hunters and their trophies, drawn by fancy veneer and thick faceplates like moths to a flame. All so predictable, so caveman. And sadly so applicable to the higher price tag gear. Wouldn't it be cool to find a simple 2-way or 3-way speaker with a more pedestrian finish that used really top of the line components (speaking in jest)?

undertow · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Jul 2016, 12:41 pm »

I have built some of the Human kits back when available for a surround setup using up to 7 speakers in a system over 10 years ago with their inverted dome, and 8" paper driver used in all the main Genesis / EPI speakers.

Honestly because the posters name is "Crossoverless" these obviously peak interest as if I remember correctly there is just a simple capacitor in line with the tweeter letting the 8" run full range. You have to obviously damp, and get the cabinet right to sound decent. Plus with zero cost in a crossover it makes this whole prospect attractive which is the point.

But, that's it... They sound decent. I gave a couple to a friend which ended up frying a couple of the tweeters anyway a few years later. They are not incredibly efficient on any level, nor that robust, or detailed in sound. Pretty cheap basic drivers, and really for the most basic novice of speakers.

Many other full range / crossoverless speakers, and even more properly designed "Crossover" based speakers are by far better.

If they had better power handling, with better efficiency which they are not very they would be a good priced product. Mainly what they are good for is repairing old speakers in existence, but not worth using the design to build new versions as they are definitely outdated, and very basic drivers compared to what you can accomplish today for similar cost if you understand, and hear the reasons why.

If you want a simpler explanation? one word "Boring"

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Jul 2016, 02:00 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 22 Jul 2016, 12:14 pm

Wouldn't it be cool to find a simple 2-way or 3-way speaker with a more pedestrian finish that used really top of the line components (speaking in jest)?

Are you speaking of Elac UB5s?

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 Jul 2016, 02:23 pm »

Or Dennis Murphy designs. Or my long discontinued Meadowlark Audio Shearwater Hot Rods, great drivers (Scanspeak), simple crossover, great cabinet. Lots of high quality designs for not too much mulla.

JLM · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Jul 2016, 02:24 pm »

Quote from: Russell Dawkins on 22 Jul 2016, 02:00 pm

Are you speaking of Elac UB5s?

Only heard them briefly in a crowded room at 2016 Axpona, but not a fan of tiny 3-ways. From what I could tell they did sound better than the B6 that my friend owns, do like the coaxial design concept, and probably represent a good value. But would prefer a small 1-way or 2-way with option to add subwoofer(s) as needed.