Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?

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SoCalWJS

Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #20 on: 13 Jul 2016, 12:40 am »
I'm following this thread with some interest.

I need desperately to start doing something to get a bit of exercise, and I keep thinking of getting a bicycle and giving it a shot. I rode quite a bit when I was a kid and a teen, but stopped after that. I bought a cheapo Mountain bike from Costco many years ago, but didn't like it very much - I lived out in the sticks and there was no place to ride. Now I live in a nice little community with great weather and planty of places to bike. I thought about a road bike, but yikes - $$$$$$.

I finally figured out you could get a Mountain bike and put some more street friendly tires on (I would be doing 95% of my riding on pavement), but even a used decent Mountain bike seems to cost a fortune. (I've checked the local CL, and a decent used bike goes for north of $1k)

I'll keep checking out this thread and see what comes out.

Folsom

Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #21 on: 13 Jul 2016, 12:52 am »
Why MTB? Check out All-City Nature Boy, can be had for $1k often. It's a pretty nice bike with very minimal stuff so the price isn't much.

zybar

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Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #22 on: 13 Jul 2016, 01:05 am »
I'm following this thread with some interest.

I need desperately to start doing something to get a bit of exercise, and I keep thinking of getting a bicycle and giving it a shot. I rode quite a bit when I was a kid and a teen, but stopped after that. I bought a cheapo Mountain bike from Costco many years ago, but didn't like it very much - I lived out in the sticks and there was no place to ride. Now I live in a nice little community with great weather and planty of places to bike. I thought about a road bike, but yikes - $$$$$$.

I finally figured out you could get a Mountain bike and put some more street friendly tires on (I would be doing 95% of my riding on pavement), but even a used decent Mountain bike seems to cost a fortune. (I've checked the local CL, and a decent used bike goes for north of $1k)

I'll keep checking out this thread and see what comes out.

While I am road bike guy, my sons aren't.  So I just got my oldest a really comfortable bike that he loves and actually rides!!

It's an Electra Townie 7D.

http://www.electrabike.com/bikes/townie

I rode it the other day and it was a nice and comfortable ride.

Even new from a bike shop, it is way south of $1k.

George

Doublej

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Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #23 on: 13 Jul 2016, 01:26 am »
Why MTB? I want gears, I want fat tires for more stability and cush, I want to be able to jump curbs and not worry about breaking me or the bike. I want to be able to ride potholed roads, sidewalks, unpaved paths and local trails. Sometimes I'll take off down the street, jump into a small wooded areas for a few miles, pop out the other side and head back home.

I thought I wanted a front suspension for cush and easier riding over obstacles but I.Greyhound Fan has adjusted my thinking about the cush part.

I don't care about going far or fast.

This is what I am riding at the moment. Looks like FullRangeMan's bike but purdier.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n267/Kustombyker/Cleanstone.jpg

I could put a $100 into it for a mini self-service overhaul and call it done for a season or two but was figuring technology has advanced things a bit to make it worth getting a new one. Plus getting some parts like the bushings for the cantilever brakes seem to be a challenge.

The info about level of components is very helpful. There hundreds of choices and I live in area with 50(?) bike shops within an hour drive so can get many of the brands out there in the marketplace from a local dealer. Feels like the height of the audio craze.

Too many choices. Almost like buying a mattress! (I need one them too and I can't overhaul the one I have)








 



I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #24 on: 13 Jul 2016, 01:49 am »
I'm following this thread with some interest.

I need desperately to start doing something to get a bit of exercise, and I keep thinking of getting a bicycle and giving it a shot. I rode quite a bit when I was a kid and a teen, but stopped after that. I bought a cheapo Mountain bike from Costco many years ago, but didn't like it very much - I lived out in the sticks and there was no place to ride. Now I live in a nice little community with great weather and planty of places to bike. I thought about a road bike, but yikes - $$$$$$.

I finally figured out you could get a Mountain bike and put some more street friendly tires on (I would be doing 95% of my riding on pavement), but even a used decent Mountain bike seems to cost a fortune. (I've checked the local CL, and a decent used bike goes for north of $1k)

I'll keep checking out this thread and see what comes out.


Just get a Hybrid bike which is similar to a road bike with upright straight handle bars and better gearing than a mountain bike.  The large chain ring on the crank has 48Teeth where a MTN bike's is 44T and a Road bike anywhere from 50T to 52T.  The larger the chain ring the more speed. The hybrid will have skinny tires from 28c x700c to 32c x700c.   Trek, Specialized and Raliegh make some nice hybrids with carbon forks and carbon frames.  Trek even makes a Hybrid with Road gearing for more speed.  In addition, a hybrid frame will be larger than a MTN bike.

Here are some examples here in MN for bikes under $1K

http://www.eriksbikeshop.com/flatbar-road-bikes/2016-Men/2660-1268/search

http://penncycle.com/product/trek-allant-7.4-233084-1.htm

http://penncycle.com/product/trek-7.4-fx-211498-1.htm

Another option if you are comfortable measuring yourself for a bike, is buying online from Giantnerd.  I bought a road bike for my son from them.  I saved several hundred on a bike with Shimano 105 derailleurs and Tiagra shifters with a carbon fork, rear stays and seat post.

The Tommaso Monza, Tiempo and Imola are all good bikes and fairly lightweight at 22lbs or less.

http://giantnerd.com/collections/road-bikes


They also sell MTN bikes-

http://giantnerd.com/collections/mountain-bikes


I use to ride a drop handle bike but had to switch to a hybrid when I had a cervical fusion for a herniated disk in my neck.  I put on carbon fiber fork, seat post, handlebars, high rise stem and new aero wheels with 23c tires.  It is fast and comfortable.  I still can't keep up with a drop handle though. Next step will be to go to a road crank.


Folsom

Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #25 on: 13 Jul 2016, 02:16 am »
DoubleJ, you'd do great with a steel frame 29er, rigid. They typically have enough verticle flex that they're very pleasurable to ride. And you can run something like a 700x50 Schwable.

LadyDog

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Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #26 on: 13 Jul 2016, 02:33 am »
JJ,
At the end of the day, buy whatever motivates you and gets you on the road/trail/path.  Whether at that be an atb/road/cross/hybrid/fat tire or whatever else.  Figure out your desires, terrain interests, budget, and maybe the brands you can source locally.

Just about any bike bought at a reputable bike dealership will be durable.  Again whether it's cross/atb/road/etc.

An atb is not necessary any more durable than say a cross bike.

A 28 or 32mm tire can be as comfortable as something wider.  Wheels and tire pressure play more of a roll than "just" the width of a tire.

Just like I could argue that road bars can be better served for many than flat bars(more hand positions to adjust to, etc).

As with this wonderful music forum we are all part of, everybody is their own movie critic.


FullRangeMan

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Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #27 on: 13 Jul 2016, 02:48 am »
Low pressure tires warp the rims, for confort must use wider tires or suspension.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #28 on: 13 Jul 2016, 03:51 am »
Low pressure tires warp the rims, for confort must use wider tires or suspension.

It depends upon the tire and its tire rating along with how much you put into it.  My 23c tires can take 120psi but I can ride at 110 without problems. The lower pressure gives a more comfortable ride but I like the ride at 120.

The issue with using a suspension bike for road use is that you loose some energy due to suspension travel and you are less efficient.  Knobby tires also create more friction and pedal effort.  If you are not going off road at least consider wide smoother tires like Panaracer Ribmo Kevlar or the Serfas Drifters that I posted earlier, they are more comfortable, faster and more quiet than knobby tires.  The difference in rolling resistance and pedal effort is dramatic.  For comfort, a suspension seat post and wide tires inflated about 5-7#'s below max pressure will do more than a suspension fork IMHO.  A nice pair of padded riding gloves and bar ends also help.

By the way, for anyone who has a straight bar bike and would like to ride in a drop position occasionally or would like a few extra hand positions,  these Origin 8 drop bar ends work great-

http://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/origin8-bicycle-drop-bar-ends-black?gclid=CIPe7pLF780CFQIKaQodeiQJ2A

*Scotty*

Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #29 on: 13 Jul 2016, 04:22 am »
Doublej, with easy access to as many good bicycle shops as you have, I would start by researching the feedback on some of them regarding customer service and how competent their shop people are. Pick a couple of promising ones and go test ride some bicycles including full suspension bikes and see if any of the concerns raised here apply to you.
 Undoubtedly you will find some that might just meet your needs and you can proceed from there.
You are right about the advancements in technology, it is definitely worth your time to look at whats been done to improve the humble bicycle.
Scotty 

RDavidson

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Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #30 on: 13 Jul 2016, 04:47 am »
I bought a Trek Superfly 100 AL 2-3 years ago. It is a full suspension 29er. I bought it purely for riding fun. I wanted something versatile, but could handle some abuse. I wanted something that would act as sort of an adult version of the BMX bike I loved as a kid. The Trek has been a great bike. I bought tires that are knobby, but have directional tread down the middle which aid road riding / rolling ease. I also added bar ends to give me different grip / riding positions.

Note, I tested the hard tail version of the same bike and the overall feel of the bike just couldn't match the full suspension version. I wanted to like the hard tail to keep things simpler, but not only was the full suspension more comfortable, it felt more agile and responsive.

charmerci

Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #31 on: 13 Jul 2016, 04:48 pm »
Here you go - get one of these Diamondbikes. Comfy ride. Since I got disc brakes last year, I would never go back to any other types of brakes.

Doublej

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Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #32 on: 13 Jul 2016, 11:16 pm »
Here you go - get one of these Diamondbikes. Comfy ride. Since I got disc brakes last year, I would never go back to any other types of brakes.

20" that's kid sized, no? Besides, I think Folsom wants me to buy one of these and a pair of knee replacements.

http://www.konaworld.com/unit.cfm


drphoto

Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #33 on: 14 Jul 2016, 12:05 am »
It sounds like MT bike fits you needs. but just word of advice. I dunno why people get MT bikes to ride on road. I personally think they suck for that purpose. I lot of people say they don't like the hunched over position of road bikes or the narrow saddles. Yes, both take getting used too, but WAY better on road. More aero, and believe me once you get above 15mph, aero matters a lot. Drag goes up as the square of speed.

plus you are in a better position to pedal efficiently. Plus that narrow saddle Is actually better for your posterior than those wide cushy ones, once you adapt.

A lot of people position their saddle too low. You want your leg nearly fully extended at bottom of stroke!

Trail riding can be tough. I used to ride with a bunch of kids who came from BMX. They had great bike handling skills and would kick my butt. I never could figure out how to 'bunny hop' even with clip less pedals.

Oh, best tip I got when riding narrow (single track) trails. Is look where you want to go....not at what you don't want to hit!! and when it gets rough.....go faster so you float over.

Cycling is a blast. I used to ride 200+ miles a week. But then I got old and lazy. :(

Folsom

Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #34 on: 14 Jul 2016, 12:08 am »
20" that's kid sized, no? Besides, I think Folsom wants me to buy one of these and a pair of knee replacements.

http://www.konaworld.com/unit.cfm

Correct the diamond back is made for kids. You can get them in adult sizes.

The Kona Unit would be an excellent choice, actually. As far as your knees are concerned, unless you're a professional bike racer then you don't put out enough power to worry about it so long as you don't gear up much. The gearing on the Unit stock is so low you'd probably get a little tired of it and decided to up it a little. Increasing it so you pedal slowly could make it hard on the knees if you had it very high. The ideal pedaling for cruising is around 60 rpm, but if you plan on working hard it's preferable to have 90. Due to geometry people doing TT and Triathlons they aim up to 120 if they can hack it. For whatever reason it's easier on the heart not to try and pedal at the desired trap speed at really low RPM, just like having longer cranks helps keep the heart rate lower. The Kona Unit has long cranks.

Honestly if you ever approached the need to really try hard enough to put stress on your knees, you'd be up out of the saddle instead because it'd be too exhausting with that low gear otherwise. Again the only risk condition is if you geared it so high it was hard to pedal at any reasonable speed. I owned something basically the same as the Unit except by another brand. It was painfully slow at times getting across town to the trails, but once on the trails it was fun. The only limit was not going fast enough. No hill put any serious pressure on my knees before I'd get up out of the saddle. I had the same gearing within a couple inches (per pedal). The comfort level however was absurdly nice. The only limit was if I was utterly flying down single track and there were big rocks or something; I'd slow down instead of letting the shock take it.

JJ, test ride a Unit at a shop, then consider you're going to gear it a little higher and put on some more road oriented tires (and fenders?) so you'll fly right along with very little effort. Also you'll be able to go up and down curbs like it ain't no thing. In fact the average sidewalk you'll be able to pedal up without having to yank on the bars, due to the large wheel; so long as you go slow when you make contact with the front wheel.

Folsom

Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #35 on: 14 Jul 2016, 12:17 am »
It sounds like MT bike fits you needs. but just word of advice. I dunno why people get MT bikes to ride on road. I personally think they suck for that purpose. I lot of people say they don't like the hunched over position of road bikes or the narrow saddles. Yes, both take getting used too, but WAY better on road. More aero, and believe me once you get above 15mph, aero matters a lot. Drag goes up as the square of speed.

plus you are in a better position to pedal efficiently. Plus that narrow saddle Is actually better for your posterior than those wide cushy ones, once you adapt.

A lot of people position their saddle too low. You want your leg nearly fully extended at bottom of stroke!

Trail riding can be tough. I used to ride with a bunch of kids who came from BMX. They had great bike handling skills and would kick my butt. I never could figure out how to 'bunny hop' even with clip less pedals.

Oh, best tip I got when riding narrow (single track) trails. Is look where you want to go....not at what you don't want to hit!! and when it gets rough.....go faster so you float over.

Cycling is a blast. I used to ride 200+ miles a week. But then I got old and lazy. :(

I think people that ride MTB on the road with non-lockout shocks and knobby tires are idiots - if they aren't headed to a trail ever. It's painful to have it steal half of every pedal stroke you give, wasting huge energy to push the knobs, etc... you feel like you're standing still and the geometry doesn't help you go any faster. I get more power and ease from a little farther forward saddle than others do, as well.

That sad I road a downhill bicycle converted to a fixie w/ fenders and a rigid fork for winter, many years. It was the best winter bike a guy could ask for! Superior to cyclocross style fixie (also done) for when it gets bad. But that would be my second choice, it just wasn't as stable due to center of gravity.

You're right that most non-bicycle people have habits of lowering their seats until their knees are beggin for forgiveness. But also I see people going the opposite. Your hips should never rock back and forth. Right before lockout extension is the most you should be able to go, while dipping your heel in stroke. This will leave your non-dipped stroke so your knee is always a little bent. Some noobs think this isn't far enough but generally you get the most power efficiency without beating yourself up, and leave room for power struggles without over extending your leg.

You guys should see the retards where I live... there's droves of bizarre people that think it's cool to ride a BMX around town. We aren't talking about people that do tricks on them, they just ride them like a normal bike... miles and miles. Adults can only pedal a BMX standing, really. They also ride on the sidewalks and I'm sure get hit frequently crossing from sidewalk to sidewalk at intersections. They are not nice BMX's either, as I've known BMX nerds that do tricks, one that built an indoor park, etc... two different kind of people. They're more the meth crowd where I'm at now.

BTW the proper way to judge saddles is to measure your sit bones. It's an awkward process where you lay on your back, kick your legs up over your shoulders as best as possible and look for the two bumps. That way you know which width of saddle you require. The most important factor is that, and then what you're talking about. My favorite saddle is the Selle Italia Flight Max, because it's the only one wide enough for my sit bones that also doesn't have excess soft tissue numbing cushion. Cushion is bad except for a very small bit. Shape and position is all. Unless you ride a recumbent...

DaveC113

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Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #36 on: 14 Jul 2016, 12:59 am »
BTW the proper way to judge saddles is to measure your sit bones. It's an awkward process where you lay on your back, kick your legs up over your shoulders as best as possible and look for the two bumps. That way you know which width of saddle you require. The most important factor is that, and then what you're talking about. My favorite saddle is the Selle Italia Flight Max, because it's the only one wide enough for my sit bones that also doesn't have excess soft tissue numbing cushion. Cushion is bad except for a very small bit. Shape and position is all. Unless you ride a recumbent...

Specialized stores have butt-measurement devices, they offer different widths of the same saddle, a good idea...

Most XC/trail full sus mtbs have lockouts, and there are tires that work ok on road and trail, the only downside of a full sus bike when trail riding is involved is price.


charmerci

Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #37 on: 14 Jul 2016, 01:00 am »
20" that's kid sized, no? Besides, I think Folsom wants me to buy one of these and a pair of knee replacements.

http://www.konaworld.com/unit.cfm


Oh yeah - ha! Anyway -


http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/gravity/fat-bikes/fat-bikes-bullseye-monster.htm

Folsom

Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #38 on: 14 Jul 2016, 01:03 am »
Cool, I didn't know Specialized was doing that now. I sat on saddles that felt good for awhile but were not after a bit due to my wide sit bones. In all honesty I think the industry has been a bunch of toothpick sized assholes trying to make everyone live out their standards... I see this because soaking wet 130lb guys at bike shops try to tell me stuff like UN53 BB's pass friction tests as good as Campy's etc, but I bind them on a hill first ride... and have to explain what it's like and how they've never exerted big watts followed by big weight.

Rarely do you see someone that choose a bike for around down drop the money for something that has lockout quality shocks on it!

I knew a guy who bought a Bike's direct 29er. It sucked, but it was cheap... I would've shredded it.

charmerci

Re: Honda/Toyota of Mountain Bikes?
« Reply #39 on: 14 Jul 2016, 01:28 am »
Cool, I didn't know Specialized was doing that now. I sat on saddles that felt good for awhile but were not after a bit due to my wide sit bones. In all honesty I think the industry has been a bunch of toothpick sized assholes trying to make everyone live out their standards... I see this because soaking wet 130lb guys at bike shops try to tell me stuff like UN53 BB's pass friction tests as good as Campy's etc, but I bind them on a hill first ride... and have to explain what it's like and how they've never exerted big watts followed by big weight.

Rarely do you see someone that choose a bike for around down drop the money for something that has lockout quality shocks on it!

I knew a guy who bought a Bike's direct 29er. It sucked, but it was cheap... I would've shredded it.


I was just showing that there are "fat bikes" for around that price.


Also when you buy a new bike at a shop you can have them replace the saddle or more upright handlebar for example, usually for a deep discount.