The Official GR Research Hot Rod Thread

Folsom · « **on:** 28 Jun 2016, 06:32 pm »

I think upgrading makes perfect sense. And Ya, it's sooo much cheaper.

In automotive a factory car with the upgrade for HP say from 400 to 700 will cost you $10-50K, and may be achievable for $1-3K aftermarket (these days). I wish we got that kind of performance grade change in audio so easily! Since it is less measurable and discernible, we certainly are the more obsessed, quality driven, bunch - even on a tight budget.

Hugh · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Jun 2016, 07:00 pm »

Quote from: Folsom on 28 Jun 2016, 06:32 pm

...In automotive a factory car with the upgrade for HP say from 400 to 700 will cost you $10-50K, and may be achievable for $1-3K aftermarket (these days)...

I'd like to know more about this.

Thanks,

Hugh

Folsom · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Jun 2016, 07:08 pm »

Corvette 455hp, $56k
Corvette Z06 650hp, $80k

I can't count all the other examples. But point is you can upgrade the Corvette with a supercharger for a lot less than a ZO6 cost. However, I like the look of the Z06, and that you can't get. (I'm brakes and a few other things are probably different, too)

bdp24 · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Jun 2016, 10:25 pm »

I'm still saving for a Whipple blower for my Chevy small block. Last time I looked it was around $5k installed. An easy hundred horses!

Syrah · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Jun 2016, 02:29 am »

I thought this really came down to an "economies of scale" vs. "raw parts markup" tension.

Back in the day, a company like Sony could crank out CD transports for nothing because they built so many. Any bespoke audiophile brand that decided to make its own transport would incur dramatically higher costs to make something only marginally better, if better at all.

But if Sony had to put V-Caps in its CD players, well that's maybe $300 wholesale, mark it up for Sony's profit, distributors' profits, retailer's profits, you're probably looking at $2000 more on the sticker price. Not going to happen.

But if you take advantage of the scale of the $800 Sony player that Sony can make for nothing on a huge scale, then solder in some $600 retail V-Caps (or whatever other audiophile mods make sense), you've built a $1400 machine that would have sold for $2800 if Sony had to make it. Isn't that the economics? The trick is knowing where the shortcomings are that can benefit mods. Guys like Dan Wright built a career out of it.

If you hand built speaker cabinets to build some of Danny's great designs, that's going to cost you compared to the Columbian or Chinese factory that's cranking them out for a major speaker manufacturer. But if Danny can spot a good design, with a good cabinet, with decent drivers, that had to skimp on caps, or cabinet damping, or wiring, or resistors, or inductors (or whatever)... you could end up with speakers that compete with retail speakers at 2 or 3 times the cost.

BRING IT ON DANNY!

I'm dabbling with a similar issue now, getting some tuning done on a BMW 135i.

*Scotty* · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Jun 2016, 02:43 am »

As far cars are concerned I like buying the car with as much performance as possible from factory. One the best bargains out there right now is 2016 Mustang GT with the 5.0 engine, 435HP and 400 ft.bs. of torque.
You can probably get off the showroom floor for about $36,000.
Scotty

Syrah · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Jun 2016, 02:57 am »

Definitely off topic, but I've just never liked the feel of the Mustang. I hated the handling of the older ones, and I find the newer ones better, but still not my thing. I get it if most/all of your driving is highway or straight roads.

The Focus RS is a guilty pleasure for me. Back when I lived in a big city and didn't have a car, only rented on weekends, I was once "stuck" with an ugly Ford Focus. I came home and told my wife, "you won't believe it, but that thing is a dream to drive, tight, nimble, superb".

I prefer the feel of something like the Subaru BRZ that trades horsepower for phenomenal handling and road feel. Although it's admittedly light on horsepower. It's like a SET amp. I used to drive a modded Mini JCW that I absolutely loved. It flew and handled like a go cart, amazing road feel, until someone ran into it... sniff, sniff. So my next car is a modded, tuned up 135i. I'd get an M2, but I can't get past the sticker shock.

Horses for courses, as the English say.

*Scotty* · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Jun 2016, 03:23 am »

The Focus RS is one of the cars I would dearly like to test drive as well as the Subaru WRX/ STI.
Scotty

Folsom · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Jun 2016, 03:34 am »

If you're thinking WRX, and feel you want an STI, wait till the new gen engine comes out. You can exceed the stock STI power with a chip on the WRX that has the new gen motor.

My friend who sells Subaru's and owns one told me about it. He says the power is much friendlier too. Older STI's had massive turbo lag.

Syrah · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Jun 2016, 03:44 am »

I drove the Forester turbo and found the turbo lag intolerable, but I like the standard Forester for what it is. I find that unpredictability downright dangerous. You're trying to pass a car and you're just hanging in the passing lane, then it suddenly takes off just before you need to slam the brakes to go back into your lane to avoid oncoming traffic because it took too long for the turbo to kick in. Unsettling. A good 0-60 is fine if you're going 0-60 and everything along the way doesn't matter.

You gotta give it to the BMWs for nailing turbo. Audi's are hit and miss.

Folsom · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Jun 2016, 03:51 am »

The problem is Subaru and other companies are competing for cheaper prices than ever so a proper twin turbo or one that has a high performance waste gate, ability for constant operation, and blow off are out of the question. If they did have them there would be no more lag than the sluggish kickdown modern cars already use.

I hope we aren't really disturbing the topic. I don't think it had a big future. Some small decent bookshelves sound better, and if you've got some speakers of any type you can have big Danny G improve them.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 Jun 2016, 02:08 pm »

You guys now have your own thread for the hot rod stuff.

bdp24 · « **Reply #12 on:** 1 Jul 2016, 02:12 pm »

Danny, you're the one with a hot rod! I'd love a Corvette, but a drumset won't fit inside

. So I had suspension specialist Jim Sleeper drop my Tahoe 4", and put a set of Budnik billet wheels wrapped in BFGoodrich rubber all around. The 350 small block puts out only around 250hp, so it really needs that Whipple blower for another hundred. As soon as my hi-fi is done!

srb · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 Jul 2016, 02:29 pm »

Quote from: bdp24 on 1 Jul 2016, 02:12 pm

The 350 small block puts out only around 250hp, so it really needs that Whipple blower for another hundred.

350bhp on a 5,000 lb. vehicle should make it go almost as fast a 6-cylinder Toyota Camry!

DaveC113 · « **Reply #14 on:** 1 Jul 2016, 06:19 pm »

Quote from: Folsom on 29 Jun 2016, 03:34 am

If you're thinking WRX, and feel you want an STI, wait till the new gen engine comes out. You can exceed the stock STI power with a chip on the WRX that has the new gen motor.

My friend who sells Subaru's and owns one told me about it. He says the power is much friendlier too. Older STI's had massive turbo lag.

No... the Subaru 2.5 has a problem with the stock turbo spooling up way too fast and can have boost creep issues as a result. In those cars once you free up the intake and exhaust the turbo starts spooling up like a turbo diesel, the car is always spooling the turbo when it's accelerating. In fact, I'd say the stock turbo is FAR too small on the 2.5 motors once the intake and exhaust are upgraded.

That said, I'd trade my '14 WRX 2.5L hatch for a new WRX with the direct injected 2.0 motor IF Subaru would make them in a hatchback. In the meantime, hopefully I can get a few grand extra to upgrade to a larger turbo so the turbo won't spool up as fast, I want to be able to drive around town at low RPMs without the turbo spooling up.

One of my friends with a '16 WRX had it tuned for E85, leaving the car entirely stock, and with a very conservative tune put out 295Hp at the wheels at 5000 ft elevation... and he gets about 30 mpg too. Previously he had a 2.5 WRX with intake and exhaust mods that putout about 315 HP, but as I said the stock turbo handicaps the 2.5 pretty badly. It can make 375 HP at the wheels easily and with very little turbo lag.

Also, imo STi is a questionable upgrade over the WRX unless you'll be taking it to the track.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #15 on:** 1 Jul 2016, 06:23 pm »

Quote from: Folsom on 29 Jun 2016, 03:51 am

The problem is Subaru and other companies are competing for cheaper prices than ever so a proper twin turbo or one that has a high performance waste gate, ability for constant operation, and blow off are out of the question. If they did have them there would be no more lag than the sluggish kickdown modern cars already use.

That's really not true either, the new WRX uses a dual scroll Garrett turbo and develops maximum torque around 2k RPM.

It is possible the CVT transmission is the issue, because it's definitely not the motor. But you shouldn't be buying a performance car with a CVT anyways and imo Subaru shouldn't even offer it on the WRX or Forester XT.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #16 on:** 1 Jul 2016, 06:39 pm »

Yeah, I can't leave a car alone either. Why not crank the power up a little? More power is more better.

The one visual thing that gives away a hint of some modifications are the Hoosier drag radials on the back.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Jul 2016, 06:46 pm »

This is me in a grudge race with a buddy of mine. His GTO is a back halfed car with huge slicks. He is running a 496 cubic inch BBC. His trany is a turbo 400 with a 3800 stall converter. And he was running a 4.56 gear at the time.

He was a little nervous and forgot to turn off his two step. The two step device sets a low rpm rev limiter for the burn out. His was set at 5,000 rmps. So soon after launch he hit the 5000 rpm limiter and it fell on its face. I was already out on him anyway. I plastered him on the tree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zan-jHVGZ1o

zybar · « **Reply #18 on:** 1 Jul 2016, 06:47 pm »

Went test driving this week with a friend who is looking to add another car to his garage and we twice drove a 2016 Dodge Challenger R/T with Scat Pack.

I had my preconceived notions of American muscle, but I was pleasantly surprised by how nice a ride it produced and how much better the interior has become.

While nobody will confuse the interior with the German cars I enjoy, it definitely has come a long way!

The car had roughly 500hp and could be tame or a beast depending on how you drove it. It also had a very nice sounding exhaust.

He really wanted to drive the Challenger Hellcat, but the couple of dealers we visited weren't allowing test drives.

Below are a couple of pics.

It sure looks nice in the Plum Crazy color - too bad it was only an option for a few months.

George

Folsom · « **Reply #19 on:** 1 Jul 2016, 06:53 pm »

Dave, I've driven a hatchback STI and the turbo lag was stupid IMO; it did have some sort of upgrade too. The new Forester's with a turbo have huge turbo lag as well. You're idea of turbo lag may be different from mine. I enjoy vehicles that have instant throttle response; you tap, it leaps.

Who buys a WRX with an auto?

Dual scroll helps the new one, as you said, at 2k it's developing well (forester does not). But it's limited in overall volume compared to running two; which would make the new WRX engine a real nut house.

BTW I can't quiet decide whether I'm really enjoying that there's no hatchback WRX anymore because the bitching is funny, or if I'm tired of hearing it so I want them to release one. The one thing I'm sure of is I'm sick of the extremely identifiable sound of the older WRX/STI. Gag.