[Armaegis]

I've currently got an older B60 being sent in for an upgrade to SST output devices and general checkup. I just wanted to make a new thread here with some of the updated information I've accumulated since some of the old posts here on audiocircle are perhaps out of date.

Below is the most relevant info I was able to dig up,
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=41839.msg540615#msg540615

Hi There,

Here is the info for you on the history of the B60.

First B60   #600001
First B60 to use double sided boards – 601350 --- therefore SST Output devices and phono upgrade available.
First B60 to use new outputs – 601733

B60 'DAC' upgrades apply only to mainboard revision 1.6 (april 1999) or higher. There is no access to the selector switch connections on the rear panel and no way to attach the DAC board considering the mainboard layout.

January 2006 started C-Series B60.

james

I was a bit sad at this since it seemed mine was too old to be eligible for upgrade. However, after emailing Mike over at Bryston, he told me that the upgrade was possible. This is what he told me:

When we upgrade older B60’s to the new output devices, we use a TO-3 version of the transistor, so it will look the same as the original transistors.  If you can read the part # on the transistor, you’ll be able to tell what’s installed.

The original transistors are BR(or SJ)6521/2, while the SST transistors are MJ21193/4.

Thanks,

Mike

The TO-3 devices are round silver in appearance. (I think the new-style are black square-ish? Someone correct me if I'm wrong)

Older 2B's also use these and can be upgraded as well.

Some more relevant tidbits:

There have been many changes made to the B60 over the last 20 years, but the output transistor upgrade was the only one that can be linked to a performance upgrade.

Any 2B can also be fitted with the new output devices, at around the same $200.00 cost, and the 2BLP has been using the new devices since around 2005.  It was the last unit to be converted to the new devices

Hope you guys find that useful and saves some time for anyone looking to upgrade in the future.

[Armaegis]

My B60 has finally arrived! 

Huge thanks to Mike who was great to communicate with and answered my questions each step of the way. Fantastic work and super fast shipping (that Fedex truck must have been flying to make it here in less than 2 days). It originally went in for the SST upgrade, but not only did they upgrade the output devices, they also fixed a broken rca jack I didn't even know about, and replaced all the switches. Awesome!

I was actually considering doing the upgrades myself, but considering the time and labour required it really wasn't that much more to simply send it in to Bryston. Actually, considering that mine was coming up from the US back into Canada, if it had come directly to me than I would have had to pay more in shipping plus taxes and whatever importing ugliness. Because Bryston has a depot in the US, it was actually cheaper overall to send it to Bryston directly and have them do all the work and ship it back across the border through their channels. Something to keep in mind for us Canucks. Plus then it gets an official bill of health.

I've been doing some listening all afternoon/evening to see if I can hear any differences between the older 2B and the upgraded B60. There are certainly some subtle differences, which I will elaborate more on tomorrow. I'm keeping the signal chain as consistent but as convenient as possible. I'm running my dac (which also has coax output) into the B60. I'm splitting the B60 preamp outputs to the B60 amp section and the 2B. Volume was matched with a multimeter by adjusting gain on the 2B.

The B60 and 2B amps are virtually the same, so hopefully the only difference I'm hearing here are due to the SST outputs on the B60.

[JeffS.]

Congrats on the upgrade!  I have a 4B ST, but I had not considered the idea of upgrading to SST output devices.  Thanks for the idea and happy listening!

[Armaegis]

Just to clarify because I realize my wording my have caused confusion: in the bigger amp designs they went through more extensive changes at each generation. So I don't think you can upgrade the ST to SST simple by swapping in new output devices. You'll have to ask James or Mike specifically about that though.

It is only in the case of the 2B (and the amp section of the B60 which is essentially a 2B) that the circuit has not changed over the years, but they simply updated the output devices to the same as those used in the SST generation.

[Armaegis]

Okay so after another day of listening, these are my impressions of the SST upgrade:
- a bit quicker and cleaner
- slightly better detailing and makes the music feel a tiny bit brighter; I had to doublecheck there wasn't an actual volume difference
- bass initially feels diminished, but when you get into the really deep sub frequencies you notice that it's more well defined; the midbass feels trimed down because it's cleaner and lacking that bloom

Overall it's a subtle change, but once it settles in it gets easier to pick out. Not a gamechanger, but a step up in all the right places. Would I recommend people send in their old 2B's and B60's? That's a bit of a tossup from me. I'm certainly happy with it, but I combined it with a checkup and cross-border excursion, and it was literally cheaper in that circumstance to get it all done at Bryston rather than do the upgrade myself. If you're on a shoestring budget and nabbed the 2B off ebay for peanuts, well then no it doesn't make sense to upgrade. If you're looking to eek out the best from your 2B/B60 and you're about due for a checkup anyways, then yeah do it. If you're Canadian but buying one from the US, then jumpin' jibblies this is absolutely the way to do it!

Now as a brief review of the built-in dac module, I wish I could be more enthusiastic but it's a bit of a *shrug* from me. I'm sure it was an excellent dac when first developed, but the dac landscape has changed dramatically in the 15(?) or so years since. Now I'm not saying it's a bad dac, not at all, but there's nothing fantastic in there either. Compared vs my NuPrime uDSD which is a rather good performing entry-level dac and headphone amp (retails $179), the Bryston module is a tiny bit airier but feels like the decays are stretched out. Detail retrieval and immersement feel roughly the same. Tonal balance of the dac module leans ever so slightly to the light side. Is it worth the add-on price if buying a new integrated? I think at the $1k+ price it commands, that's a no from me unless you really need to save the shelf space. For that kind of money you can easily get a used BDA-1 or any other number of dacs that will give you far more functionality.

[alexone]

hi, Armaegis!

your opinion about your updated amp is interesting. maybe it needs some more days or weeks to hear a significant difference? who knows...

happy listening,

al.

[Armaegis]

For sure I'll update if I hear any more changes. I just wanted to write down my initial impressions before I forgot them.

[Armaegis]

Ok so roughly two weeks have gone by. Power has been on almost continuously the whole time with music playing a good chunk of it, so I think I can safely say things are stable. I haven't really noticed any changes since my initial assessment. I will add that the noise floor is a bit lower on the B60 compared to the 2B I have next to it, though that's not necessarily a valid comparison of sst vs non-sst.