[PEB]

I will be at Paul Hilgeman's for an audio get-together.

Featured system this time will be Series 2-mtm monitors, stacked on top of the new XLS subwoofers with tapered cabinets, and full DSP active tri-amp power.  Series 5 MT monitors will also show up.

For the technically-minded, I will also demonstrate system dial-in via remote link from laptop to DSP crossover, as guided by in-room SPL measurement.

Experience great sound, food, camaraderie, and fun this weekend.

Contact me directly for more details.

[jackman]

I can't wait to get together and hear the system and getting together with all of the DIY croud.  

J

[Al Garay]

I wish I could be there to learn more about getting optimal results using the DCX2496 in a fully active system.  I need more experience taking RTA measurements to help make proper configuration settings on the DCX. It's not as easy as it looks. And Phil is achieving excellent results.

Jackman, I'll be dying to hear the comparison to your 1801s.

thanks,

Al

[jackman]

Al,
I don't want to make this seem like it was some sort of competition.  There were several really good designs at the DIY Chicago event and I liked a lot of things about a lot of speakers.  First of all, the host, Paul is a great guy (who put together a really nice active speaker system) with a really nice basement that worked well for the listening session.  Although he didn't have any room treatments, the floor was carpeted and the ceiling had tiles which seemed to work fairly well. Levels were checked on every speaker and, although I didn't care for many of the tracks used, the same music was used for every speaker.  It was the most controlled test I have ever attended and I hope to adopt some of the principles used in my next listening session.  I can honestly say that none of the speakers sounded bad and 90% of them sounded very good.  Also, speakers were demo'd in the order of their pricing, lowest to highest.  The lower priced speakers were some real gem's.  I enjoyed all of the ones I heard and really liked the Murphy modded LX5's from Radio Shack!  For 60 bucks a pair on the used market, these are some good sounding speakers.  

My wife is still chewing me out for spending six or seven hours at the event when I said I'd be home in three, but I had to stay because I really wanted to listen to Phil's system.  He brought his entry level "System 2" MTM design and an assortment of "audiosource" amps to go along with the DCX2496 active Xover.  Speakers feature proprietary Seas woofers (poly I think, with phase plug) and Seas tweeters.  The cabinets look like the Partsexpress pre-made models.  This is a good thing because I love the way the baffles can be easily removed to get to the interior of the cabinets and the finish is very good.  Phil offers a higher end cabinet for people who want to upgrade but the standard cabinets are very nice.  Phil's speakers (like all BESL speakers) were sealed.  This model is also available in a passive design that is supposed to be excellent, but I only heard the active.  

I'll let other people offer direct comparisons to the 1801's and the other speakers at the event.  The Series 2 MTM, IMO, is the ultimate speaker for HT and 2 channel listening under $2K.  These speakers in an active setup played unbelievably loud and clear with a hugh soundstage and very precise imaging.  All of the program material sounded good on the Series 2's as far as I could tell.  There were no signs of compression even at the highest SPL's.  Excellent sounding speakers.  

Are the Series 2 MTM's perfect?  Are they the ultimate speakers?  No.  In fact, I'd steer clear of anyone making these types of claims about any speaker.  First of all, the ones we listened to were active.  That means you need one channel of amplification per driver (a total of six for the setup).  The Audiosource amps used in the test may not carry the "cache" of some of the esoteric industry darlings but are very good for the money.  You also need to purchase the Behringer digital crossover and interconnects along with three sets of speaker wires.  Phil sells this stuff for a very reasonable price and is excellent in providing set-up advice.  If you have trouble programming your VCR, you may want to explore a passive setup!  Additionally, these speakers can play VERY high SPL levels but they don't attempt to play low bass.  This is by design.  If you like low bass, BESL sells some really nice subwoofers that can be used as stands.  These are highly recommended.  

The 1801's received their fair share of compliments also.  Even with version B, they are very revealing and sounded very good with all of the well recorded material we listened to on Saturday.  The OW1 is an amazing tweeter, and a perfect mate for the Excel woofer.  The speaker can have a bit of difficulty on deep bass passages at loud levels (especially artificial bass like the kind used in Rap) and can reveal the flaws of poorly recorded CD's or inferior systems.  With decent electronics, and a good recording (the Alison Kraus track we used on Saturday), these speakers can really shine.  

There are several things I like about both speakers.  I am intrigued by the active setup and digital xover because they make bass/subwoofer integration much easier.  Plus, the Series 2 had a HUGE sound and played extremely loud without a trace of compression or distortion.  Then again, I like the fact that I only need two channels of amplification to run the 1801's and they sound good without a subwoofer.  Plus, they are a passive design and don't require a digital Xover and 6 channels of amps.  

In the end, I was left with several things that I really liked about both systems and several others we evaluated.  I'm totally sold on well implimented active systems, like Phil's, for people who are willing to take the time and $$$ investment in an active setup.  It involves more than just purchasing speakers and plugging them in.  It involves room measurement, active Xover setup, subwoofer setup, etc.  In the end, I think the effort is well worth it because the end result is very good.  

If you are lazy or don't have the technical ability or funds to set up an active system there are several options available from several companies, including BESL and Ellisaudio.  If you choose a product from either of these companies, don't expect any hype or fancy marketing, just great products that are priced about half as much as they should be.  

Jack

[jackman]

Here is a nice synopsis by Paul Hilgeman.  He's a really nice guy with a totally cool wife who somehow finds the patients to put up with a house full of speaker geeks (myself included!).  I agree with his comments, there were no bad sounding speakers in the lot.  Even the big ones that pointed towards the ceiling sounded really good.  Phil did an awesome job on his active setup.  Unfortunately, it was late in the day and we were a bit burnt out listening for hours on end.  I really hope to fix my basement and hold a get-together this winter.  It was a load of fun!

Overall, I was very impressed with many of the designs and I'm sold on Active Xovers and the amazing output of the BESL speakers.  Phil B is a low-key guy who knows his stuff.  It was fun and informative to just hang out and take everything in.  Sorry if I hyjacked this thread!

Link to pix:
http://webpages.charter.net/tjt123/ChicagoDIY2004/index.html

[PEB]

Jack,
Thanks for the positive report on the 1801 and my Series 2 MTM system.  The original Series 2.4 speaker was considered the best value in my line, being a rather overachiever.  I think this is even truer with the new version.

[A correction: the new Series 2 uses doped paper cones, not poly cones.  (The doping is shiny thus giving them a plastic look. The original Series 2 MTM speaker used poly cones.)  Paper provides the detail, since it is stiff and light, while the doping subdues much of the self-resonance.]

Because my tri-amped system was more involved to set up, we decided it was best for me to be last in line.  I'm glad you and others stayed for its demo.

I agree with you that an active system is more complicated than passive, but not by much actually.  Sure there are more amps and cables, and more crossover/EQ parameters to control.  But on the first day of receiving your active system from me, you'll have everything labeled and pre-set, so it's almost as simple to hook up and push the play button as for a passive system.

The real power and fun comes from making system adjustments to the sound via PC control of the DSP crossover.  Not only can you set the bass level for the subs, but you can notch out primary room nodes, and make subtle EQ changes to the midrange and treble for the room response, too.  You can even re-voice the speaker warmer or cooler to your liking.  And then save as many versions of the base program as you wish.

Regardless, all BESL monitors are available with your choice of passive networks, or with active DSP crossover.

Many thanks to Paul H for accommodating such a large turnout at this event.

[jackman]

Phil,
Thanks for the clarification.  Your speakers sounded absolutely amazing.  The thing that really impressed me most was their ability to sound great on all of the program material, not just the good recordings.  They also passed the "no bottom out" test at extremely high spl's, higher than any other speaker of the day, I believe.

Also, I was not trying to make setup seem more difficult than it is.  Just wanted to let people know that it is a bit more involved than your typical plug and play system.  The extra effort is well worth it in the case of BESL because the end result is amazing.  Great job!

Jack

[PEB]

I was in the back of the room, monitoring the DSP crossover via laptop link, fretting about the sound. It certainly was not the spot to enjoy the big sound stage that you heard. And I was worried if the level was consistent with the other speakers, because I'm not sure we got that right with time running out.

But mine was one of the few that ran with a subwoofer (XBL2 provided by Chad K.), and so the monitors were high-pass filtered around 100Hz.  That is why the 7" woofers were so controlled, and it helps them to sound clean.  (This is an area where I want to write a couple of thorough white papers to post at the site.)

I really wanted to bring the pair of new XLS subwoofers, but there was no room left in the van, in spite of their compact size.


Thanks again.