Router 101 support and router bits to get?

TomS · « **Reply #40 on:** 19 May 2016, 09:21 pm »

Poor guy, we're laying it on so thick, ganging up, and generating compound tool lust

Fortunately, it sounds like OP is sensible enough to pick and choose within a budget and there are a lot of good options.

I agree the MFT and TS55 (or similar) are really good staring points. I have 2 MFT's, love them, but I also have an assortment of bench dogs and accessories to make them really useful. I can build just about anything general carpentry-wise with those tools and a good router.

An alternative that works with ANY track saw is to build your own MFT, something like the Ron Paulk workbenches. It's lightweight, portable, and very reasonable in cost for materials. You can do a lot with it and there are youtube vids to show how to make them. They can also be scaled up or down to almost any size.

http://www.paulkhomes.com/order-plans.html

I've built a couple and they're very nice, while building skills at the same time. You learn very quickly that setup and proper clamping enable precision and safe work practices, not so much the tools. This is especially important with routers and the MFT and Paulk both do clamping really well.

Perhaps a Paulk bench with Dewalt or Makita track saw and some clamps might be a more approachable starting point. Or, if you're not up for all that learning curve and expense, WGH, a voice of experience, had the best advice in this thread

Folsom · « **Reply #41 on:** 19 May 2016, 09:56 pm »

You could make a top and put it on saw horses or such, so it can be put away and not take up much room. I've a lot of things with just saw horses and some waffle board under it, actually. That or you can get a large sheet of foam or something to put under what you cut. That way you don't cut your table surface too much. You can adjust the height so you only leave a tiny mark on it, maybe even none, but the problem is that's not always the best choice for the wood you're cutting. It isn't the best for leaving no chips. No chips is better to go a ways farther in, and blue tape both sides... as well as using Festools solid surface blade for everything unless it's junk then use whatever blade came on it.

Devil Doc · « **Reply #42 on:** 19 May 2016, 10:38 pm »

What the OP really needs is a dedicated shop, and a love of chisels, back saws and hand planes. Screw Norm.

Doc

mlundy57 · « **Reply #43 on:** 19 May 2016, 10:57 pm »

There is another option.

I have a job site table saw and a sliding compound miter saw but I don't have a track saw so I don't even try to break down sheet goods. I let Lowe's break the full size sheets into more manageable sizes (~22"-36"x4') with their panel saw. Since Lowe's cutting is not very accurate, I add a couple inches to the pieces I have them cut, just to be safe. There is more waste this way but I don't have to deal with full size pieces of sheet goods which, at my age, is a definite plus.

I then use my table and/or miter saw to cut the parts to final dimensions. This way I can cut multiple parts of the same dimension with a single set up.

Mike

Folsom · « **Reply #44 on:** 19 May 2016, 11:06 pm »

Mike,

Delta had an excellent saw a few years ago that wasn't too much. But they since changed it a little, added heftier price tag, and replaced it with one cheap enough that it's only really good for non-finished work. It's too bad. Luckily when my father was looking we found a gently used yesteryear'd version on Craiglsit. That's the way to find one, looking for one without the tube legs.

A Mafell Erika would be about as ideal as possible for speaker building, but again it would be best built into a run out platform etc... and it's the most expensive rig mentioned yet.

PMAT · « **Reply #45 on:** 19 May 2016, 11:14 pm »

I read on a woodworkers forum that said you should buy a big set of cheap bits just to get a feel for what you'll really use. Then buy good bits of those types. Especially when your new it's easy to get discouraged by how everything is going to cost you a ton. I'm a woodworker by hobby and love it. it is a dangerous sport however. I meet a lot of people where I work and I've met several guys missing fingers due to table saws. A secondhand circular saw with a good blade Will often do a great job. I started with garage sale table saw, Drillpress and a few Sanders. I was extra careful and have invested in better equipment. More importantly though I have developed tinnitus from not using enough hearing protection. And broken bits, broken blades and pieces of wood going two hundred miles an hour by my head require that I use good eye protection. Don't be stupid.

Odal3 · « **Reply #46 on:** 20 May 2016, 03:24 am »

I really appreciate all the info!! Many thanks. I'm just at the beginning of learning the basic skills and am truly enjoying the learning experience. It's fun. While I really value good tools, going for "perfection "with top tools will be for a future upgrade to look forward to. Found a used tracksaw on Craigslist that I will take a look at tomorrow.

Tom will take a look at those worktables.

Folsom thanks for the tips

Mike - I did the same for the mdf I have at home. So much easier to transport when cut down some. Got it within +/- 1" tolerance.

Quote from: Devil Doc on 19 May 2016, 10:38 pm

What the OP really needs is a dedicated shop, and a love of chisels, back saws and hand planes.

Well actually, I wouldn't mind if I had the time. While my power tool skills are poor, the manual hand tools is how I learned a long time. Where I grew up, we had woodshop on the regular school curiculum from 4th to 8the grade where we had to learn the basics of all that. Later at the University I got some experience in programming machines (metal cutting) but somehow I have never taken the time to learn basic table saw, routers, and other wood working tools

That's what I'm working in changing now.

Pmat - thanks for the tips. Got a set of old bad bits at home so I will use them for practice. Already messed up my ears years ago while playing in a local rockband so keeping the ear protection on for the smallest sound nowadays and I wouldn't even go close to a power tool without eye protection.

Btw: mdf is nasty stuff. Next time I will build it from something else.

Folsom · « **Reply #47 on:** 20 May 2016, 04:25 am »

Check the track saw for any frame twisting.

ACHiPo · « **Reply #48 on:** 20 May 2016, 04:53 am »

Quote from: Devil Doc on 19 May 2016, 10:38 pm

What the OP really needs is a dedicated shop, and a love of chisels, back saws and hand planes. Screw Norm.

Doc

+1 Neanderthals Rule!

Horses for courses...

Odal3 · « **Reply #49 on:** 20 May 2016, 11:28 pm »

Got the makita saw from a liquidation sale today. Looked to be in decent enough condition but will try it out properly over the weekend. The price was good but need to buy the track guide and probably a new blade. I saw that Freud offer a couple of different blades for track saws but what's best for mdf, ply and similar speaker building material?

Folsom · « **Reply #50 on:** 20 May 2016, 11:43 pm »

I'm sure you'd be happy with a Freud 48T.

ACHiPo · « **Reply #51 on:** 21 May 2016, 05:49 am »

Quote from: Odal3 on 20 May 2016, 11:28 pm

Got the makita saw from a liquidation sale today. Looked to be in decent enough condition but will try it out properly over the weekend. The price was good but need to buy the track guide and probably a new blade. I saw that Freud offer a couple of different blades for track saws but what's best for mdf, ply and similar speaker building material?

Congrats!

Odal3 · « **Reply #52 on:** 22 May 2016, 03:12 pm »

Thanks!

Took the saw for a quick test drive yesterday, and Wow!!! I didn't even have the track yet since it's a special order from homedepot, the blade is shot with a few broken teeth, but it still produced a very clean cut.

The saw was clean and in good condition. It looked barely used, but the person who used it must have hit a nail or something when plunging to break the teeth in that way. I will see if I can get a picture up. Even the stackable storage box (which Folsom likes

) didn't even have a scratch on it.

Ordered the 55 in Makita guide rail track from home depot. It's on sale for $69 with free shipping and it works with festool if anyone is interested. Since they had a $20 off if spending $100 for Makita purchases, I picked up a router guide for the track as well. Not 100% sure my cheap router will be compatible with the Makita router guides, but hoping for the best.

Here's someone using the festool router guide and products and it looks really neat: https://youtu.be/1VHlCkM7uTk

The same person also did a video on quickly cutting pin holes using a router and the track, I'm sure all of you pros already know how to do this, but to me it looks very impressive: https://youtu.be/XSTQlFKtP4o (don't think that accessory comes for Makita)

S Clark · « **Reply #53 on:** 22 May 2016, 03:51 pm »

Don't use that blade again, as you don't know what fractures may be there that haven't given way yet. Also, an unbalanced blade is hard on the bearing in the saw. Someone mentioned a Freud 48 tooth, and that's a good choice at a reasonable price.

mlundy57 · « **Reply #54 on:** 22 May 2016, 11:24 pm »

Don't fret about having to buy a new saw blade. That would have been necessary if you bought the saw new.

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #55 on:** 23 May 2016, 12:32 am »

Oh wow... One of my favorite subjects... "Routers".... as in tools.
I thought this was about internet and wifi routers, which is why I passed it up for a couple days.

There is so much excellent information in this thread, it should be a sticky in the "Home Improvement" section.
I love this stuff.

I have little to add, at this point, but a couple things come to mind;

- MDF should always be cut outdoors. Years ago I was a member of a forum (Decware) where a fellow had a struggle with his wife being hospitalized for YEARS (on and off), and it turned out to be the outgassing from him building MDF speakers. Since that thread, I've switched to Baltic Birch Ply. It's a wonderful product to use, and does everything MDF can do, but better. And safer.

As far as "regular" circular saws go, buy one with a magnesium deck as opposed to a stamped steel deck. There's a huge difference.

Don't buy cheap circular saw blades.

Table saws labeled as "contractor grade" are just that, and will never be anything more. You can buy a good track saw for the price of a crappy contractors table saw at Home Depot for $600.

Odal3 · « **Reply #56 on:** 23 May 2016, 01:48 am »

Quote from: S Clark on 22 May 2016, 03:51 pm

Don't use that blade again, as you don't know what fractures may be there that haven't given way yet. Also, an unbalanced blade is hard on the bearing in the saw.t

Excellent advice! I already took it off after I tested that the saw was working properly. I'm pretty much over-the-top sensitive about that kind of stuff too. Early in my career I worked as a design engineer for a gas turbine manufacturing company and one part of my job was to evaluate and improve gears and splines in high speed applications for helicopter and aircraft engines. After that, I can't buy a metal looking item without in-depth visual inspection.

So I fortunately caught the broken teeth before purchase, and manage the get down the price to more or less cover the replacement of a stock blade

Odal3 · « **Reply #57 on:** 23 May 2016, 02:33 am »

Quote from: Bob in St. Louis on 23 May 2016, 12:32 am

There is so much excellent information in this thread, it should be a sticky in the "Home Improvement" section.

I couldn't agree more about all the great info and advice. I'm picking up every single word of it and have already re-read some of the posts a couple of times. I'm more than grateful for all the helpful posts.

I wasn't exactly sure where to post it, but saw there were a couple of other router (=tool) threads in the lab session. If it fits better in the home improvement section, feel free to move it.

Quote

- MDF should always be cut outdoors. Years ago I was a member of a forum (Decware) where a fellow had a struggle with his wife being hospitalized for YEARS (on and off), and it turned out to be the outgassing from him building MDF speakers. Since that thread, I've switched to Baltic Birch Ply. It's a wonderful product to use, and does everything MDF can do, but better. And safer.

That's scary. This is the first time working with mdf for me. When I cut it with my old circular saw with a shop vac loosely put behind, it resulted in saw dust all over me, the floor, the boards - yeah pretty much everything

. The track saw hooked up to my small shop-vac on the other hand, barely left even a trace of dust behind. What a difference!

I have done some projects with BB ply in the past, and have a great lumber store within 10 min from my house. The BB ply they have feels about double the weight than the ply I can find at HomeDepot and similar places. I'm a fan too and will probably end up doing more projects with BB ply as well. My favorite feature is that I kind of like the look of stained BB (but that's probably has more to with that I haven't had any experience applying veneer yet.

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #58 on:** 23 May 2016, 02:39 am »

Shop vacs, and general dust collection systems are great, but won't filter the chemicals coming out of materials being cut by high speed cutting bits.

Tell ya what, my wife hated it when I cut MDF. Almost ruined the whole night for the family.
When I cut Cherry, she gives me compliments about "the smell of the house".
BB ply is a "neutral".

TomS · « **Reply #59 on:** 23 May 2016, 03:10 am »

Bob is soooo right about this. I have a large combo woodworking machine with 120mm dust ports, then use a 24" 0.5 micron MERV15 HEPA filter on my dust collector with a 6" input hose. It's not perfect, but it's a start. The portable Festool HEPA vacs do this really well too, but the tool has to support it first.