[Folsom]

I have a lot to say about circular saws. I'll post soon.

[Devil Doc]

Slow progress ... and a new problem.  Was cutting my mdf board to size with my circular saw. Thought I would be OK with my old circular saw if I used some good guides to get the cuts straight. Started it out well, but the saw died half way through so guess I'm in the market for that too.

Any recommendations?

BTW: When you cut the boards do you cut it to size or do you leave a little bit extra to be sanded or ?  Yes, I'm a complete beginner 

That's what planes are for, but you're cutting MDF. I don't think a plane works on that crap. You really don't want to sand them.  BTW, learning how to use and maintain a plane is not the easiest thing to do. So my recommendation is get a table saw and cut to size, and hope for the best, or you could cut them a little proud and then use your router to trim them. Square is important.

Doc

[S Clark]

Re breaking - is that something happening frequently with 1/4 bits?

Yes. And it will teach you not to get in a hurry!  I think I've broken three bits, and got hit by one.  One cheap chinese from a set, and two Freud.

[Odal3]

Now you're scaring me...

[Devil Doc]

Nobody said woodworking was safe. It's not if your going to hurt yourself, it's when.

Doc

[S Clark]

Now you're scaring me...

Good.  Treat it with respect.

[TomS]

Slow progress ... and a new problem.  Was cutting my mdf board to size with my circular saw. Thought I would be OK with my old circular saw if I used some good guides to get the cuts straight. Started it out well, but the saw died half way through so guess I'm in the market for that too.

Any recommendations?

BTW: When you cut the boards do you cut it to size or do you leave a little bit extra to be sanded or ?  Yes, I'm a complete beginner 

The safest way to cut sheet goods nice and square is a track saw. Dewalt, Makita, Mafell, and Festool have them but they don't come cheap. I have a Festool TS55 with dust collection and it's paid for itself many times over. MDF is nasty stuff for your lungs so even a shop vac for dust collection is better than none.

Depending on the shape you need, it's easiest to cut butted boards slightly long and flush trim them with the router after they're glued up.

[mlundy57]

A table saw is best if you are going keep building. A track saw is another viable option.

When I lay out a cabinet I start with the sides. I cut these to the length and width in the plans. The top and bottom I lay out so the depth is according to the plans but the width is 1/8" long. When I glue the top and bottom to the sides I line the front and back up flush and the sides overhang the side panels by 1/16". Once the glue has dried I run a flush trim bit along the overhanging edges. This gives me a perfect fit.

I cut the front and rear baffles 1/4" oversize in both length and width. I glue the baffles on so that I have material overhanging on all four sides then use a flush trim bit to clean everything up.

After the flush trim bit, sanding is easy.

I look at it this way, when I cut mating pieces, say the baffles, one of three things is going to happen: 1) it fits perfectly; 2) it is too long or 3) it is too short. Everything fitting perfectly is unlikely. If it is too long that is easy to correct with a flush trim bit. However, if it is too short I would have to try and sand down the entire adjacent panel.

Since the odds are there is going to be a mistake I would rather purposefully make the mistake that is easiest to correct.

As to safety, power tools are dangerous. The router is likely the most versatile tool in the shop but it is also one of the most dangerous. That being said I have never hurt myself with the router but I have brought my old miter saw down on the back of my hand before. Luckily I only needed stitches but it could have been a lot worse.

Safety is also why I am seriously trying to save up enough money to replace my table saw with a SawStop. SawStops can cost twice as much as a similar style saw from anybody else but it will not cut off your hand or fingers.

A little fear is a good thing, it will keep you on your toes. Besides, you have a bigger risk of being seriously hurt every time you get in your car but that doesn't stop you from driving does it? Get good equipment, learn how to use it properly, treat it well and with respect for the potential danger, take your time and pay attention to what you are doing and you will be OK.

Mike

[WGH]

Unless you are going to continue woodworking my suggestion would be to make a cut list, layout the pieces on graph paper to make the most efficient use of the MDF then take the cut list and layout to a local cabinetmaker. The amount you spend to have a professional cut the pieces will be minimal. You can then safely cut the joints with a router.

I have been making my living making cabinets, custom furniture and one-of-a-kind entry doors since 1975 and became self employed in 1981. There is no shame hiring a professional for certain parts of the job, me and my buddies do it all the time.

And of all my longtime woodworker friends I'm the only one with all 10 fingers intact.

Wayne

[Odal3]

Good.  Treat it with respect.

Nobody said woodworking was safe. It's not if your going to hurt yourself, it's when.

Safety first but that's easier said than done. BTW: I read somewhere about some safe push shoes for the router table (and table saws) but can't find it now

The safest way to cut sheet goods nice and square is a track saw. Dewalt, Makita, Mafell, and Festool have them but they don't come cheap. I have a Festool TS55 with dust collection and it's paid for itself many times over. MDF is nasty stuff for your lungs so even a shop vac for dust collection is better than none.

Those track saws looks great and especially with the dust collection. A bit too pricey for my needs since I don't know how much I will use it yet

There is no shame hiring a professional for certain parts of the job, me and my buddies do it all the time.

That's definitely my back-up plan. I learned how to solder and stuff over the winter, and my plan is to learn little bit more about woodworking by tackling a few simple woodworking projects over the summer.

Mike - thanks again for your good advice!! Will definitely follow it

[Folsom]

Unfortunately the smartest thing for cutting panels and pieces was mentioned. It isn't cheap.

The Festool 55 track saw is the cheapest best solution. With it you can cut accurately and do complicated stuff to build anything you want. You seriously want the dust extraction if you're using MDF. You don't want to breath it. Festools dust extraction is very good. You can use a regular cheaper HEPA vacuum instead of theirs to save money.

Better solution? Buy a Mafell track saw. It's superior and has a scoring function. It cost more however. Their tracks are better by a good lot. I've used both and greatly prefer Mafell.

The tracks saws can plunge cut accuratley. They can cut at set depths. You'll want a good flush cut pull saw to finish off cuts that are on the inside. They also cut angels rather well.

Could you save $300 by buying a cheaper saw? Sorta, it's $300-400 you'll never fully get back to buy a Festool/Mafell you really need/want.

The tracksaw isn't replacbale by table saw for all cuts. But in order to use a tablesaw correctly with same accuracy you need it to be about 10X12 feet of support around the actually saw for run-out and cutting sideways, unless you buy a rather expensive panel tablesaw. They're usually very expensive, and can't do the small work at all.

So unless you've got a huge woodshop go track saw.

[Folsom]

Tracksaws used properly give you cuts that are as good as CNC'd flat packs. (Better than some)

You can also resell track saws very easily. No one cares about a circular saw unless it's a beam cutter ($500+).

[ACHiPo]

Slow progress ... and a new problem.  Was cutting my mdf board to size with my circular saw. Thought I would be OK with my old circular saw if I used some good guides to get the cuts straight. Started it out well, but the saw died half way through so guess I'm in the market for that too.

Any recommendations?

BTW: When you cut the boards do you cut it to size or do you leave a little bit extra to be sanded or ?  Yes, I'm a complete beginner 

Ok, brace yourself for a trip down another rabbit hole...

IF you're in the market for a circular saw, especially for sheet goods, the Festool track saw is the way to go, and if you're gonna do it, get the Multi-Function Table (MFT/3) as well. They are the most-used items in my shop.  They are obscenely expensive, but they are precise, fast to use, and can be used in several configurations.  Oh, and it is a very safe set up, and has great dust collection.  Since getting mine, I've used my table saw 3 times, while I've used the MFT+track saw over 100 times.  I haven't used my compound miter saw at all since getting the Festool set up.

I have an MFT/3, which is a cross-cut table with 24" capacity, the track saw with a 6' track (I can combine the two tracks to rip an 8' sheet), and their smallest vac/dust-collector.

The only thing I regret is not stepping up one size in dust collectors, but just because I have a cyclone separator and it doesn't fit right on the smallest vac, so I had to make an adaptor plate.

https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/work-tables/
https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/track-saws/ts-55-req-plunge-cut-track-saw-561556
https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tool-accessories/guide-rails?compatibility=561556
https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/HEPA-dust-extractors/ct-mini-hepa-dust-extractor-584156

EDIT:  One other thing I regret is buying the router table add-on to the MFT.  While it's a good and flexible thing, I just haven't been able to get up the learning curve, so I wouldn't recommend that one unless you do a lot of routing on a table so it's worth the time investment to learn how to use all its features.

[ACHiPo]

Ok, brace yourself for a trip down another rabbit hole...

IF you're in the market for a circular saw, especially for sheet goods, the Festool track saw is the way to go, and if you're gonna do it, get the Multi-Function Table (MFT/3) as well. They are the most-used items in my shop.  They are obscenely expensive, but they are precise, fast to use, and can be used in several configurations.  Oh, and it is a very safe set up, and has great dust collection.  Since getting mine, I've used my table saw 3 times, while I've used the MFT+track saw over 100 times.  I haven't used my compound miter saw at all since getting the Festool set up.

I have an MFT/3, which is a cross-cut table with 24" capacity, the track saw with a 6' track (I can combine the two tracks to rip an 8' sheet), and their smallest vac/dust-collector.

The only thing I regret is not stepping up one size in dust collectors, but just because I have a cyclone separator and it doesn't fit right on the smallest vac, so I had to make an adaptor plate.

https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/work-tables/
https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/track-saws/ts-55-req-plunge-cut-track-saw-561556
https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tool-accessories/guide-rails?compatibility=561556
https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/HEPA-dust-extractors/ct-mini-hepa-dust-extractor-584156

Oh, by the way they make a really good plunge router and sanders, too!

[ACHiPo]

The safest way to cut sheet goods nice and square is a track saw. Dewalt, Makita, Mafell, and Festool have them but they don't come cheap. I have a Festool TS55 with dust collection and it's paid for itself many times over. MDF is nasty stuff for your lungs so even a shop vac for dust collection is better than none.

Depending on the shape you need, it's easiest to cut butted boards slightly long and flush trim them with the router after they're glued up.

+1000 What Tom said

[TomS]

Yes, I am DEEP down the Festool rabbit hole as well, but also passed on the CMS. That stuff makes audiophiledom spending almost seem "normal" 

[Odal3]

Thanks Folsom, Tom and ACHIPO
Learning something new everyday. Hadn't really considered a tracksaw but the more I think about it the more sense they make - Especially since I don't have a dedicated shop and have to do most dusty woodworking tasks outside in the driveway.

I also value your opinions since there seems to be even more "fake" tool reviews out there than about audio equipment.

So unless you've got a huge woodshop go track saw

Since getting mine, I've used my table saw 3 times, while I've used the MFT+track saw over 100 times.  I haven't used my compound miter saw at all since getting the Festool set up.

So it could be used for many common table saw cuts, plus miter saw too? Can you do precision miter cuts with it as well? both thick and thin cuts?

Ok, brace yourself for a trip down another rabbit hole...

I'm starting to fear my wife will soon ban me from audiocircle 

OK, so the Festool equipment and ecosystem looks really really nice but unless I can find them used it's too much $ for my current needs.

The Makita SP6000J1 tracksaw  have been mentioned as a good value/budget alternative to the festool.
http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/track-saw-review/

Anyone has any experience or thoughts about it? Unless I got it wrong, it's my understanding the tracks are also compatable with the festool system.

[Folsom]

I suggest you wait a few months and save $ for the Festool. As I was saying save money by buying a vacuum that isn't Festool (save around $300) - I've had my eye on this to use because you could cut inside a house. Yes it wouldn't be 100% dust free but good enough in a pinch.

You don't see used Festrool's very often because they're so desirable, hence why I said you can resell it if you need some $.

It can do just about anything a table saw can do, and lot of things a table saw cannot. For a lot of things it's easier by a good margin. Obviously cutting a lot of sheets to the same sizes it isn't.

As far as miter cuts it is limited to 1 & 15/16 (on rail); 1 & 7/16th 45*. So you can do a lot of miter cuts with it. The setup is a little complicated to get it right; but actually it can give cleaner cuts often. The crosscut table system would make it easier but that's a lot of $; surely worth it for many people. But if you don't have to save time or do deep cuts the tracksaw can suffice. Festool makes the best miter saw out there... but that's an expensive piece.


I want to make a point that the all Festool and Mafell products can work on Festool track systems. That means you don't have to keep buying tracks as you buy things that can be used on them. I believe hardly any other companies actually make their things such as jigsaws etc even compatible with their own tracks.

[ACHiPo]

Thanks Folsom, Tom and ACHIPO
Learning something new everyday. Hadn't really considered a tracksaw but the more I think about it the more sense they make - Especially since I don't have a dedicated shop and have to do most dusty woodworking tasks outside in the driveway.
So it could be used for many common table saw cuts, plus miter saw too? Can you do precision miter cuts with it as well? both thick and thin cuts?
I'm starting to fear my wife will soon ban me from audiocircle 

OK, so the Festool equipment and ecosystem looks really really nice but unless I can find them used it's too much $ for my current needs.

The Festool gear is designed for site finish carpentry, so it's portable and a great solution if you have to take your toys (er tools) out and stow them each time you use them.

The MFT is as precise, safer, and must cleaner than a miter saw.  Complex angles are a challenge, but then, they are with a chop saw as well.

I would suggest keeping an eye out on Craigslist, as Festool gear does come up for sale occasionally.  I'd bite the bullet on the MFT and Festool track saw one way or another.  Any shop vac will work, it's just that the Festool is quiet and has a hepa filter.  Makita is probably fine (Dewalt makes a track saw, too), it's just that the Festool MFT is so darned flexible, precise, and easy to use, it's hard to go wrong (once your wallet recovers from the sting).

Another option if you really don't think you'll use it that much is most cabinet shops will make cuts for you, sand boards, etc. for a nominal fee.

AC

[Folsom]

The Festool gear is designed for site finish carpentry, so it's portable and a great solution if you have to take your toys (er tools) out and stow them each time you use them.

AC

That's right! Festool comes in a Systainer case that is $100-150 on it's own. They also stack with other Festrool/Mafell product Systainers.

We're really pushing to get Odal barred from here