my de Cappo dilema

drphoto · « **on:** 4 Nov 2004, 05:49 am »

As I've posted....I've got a pair of de Cappo-i's on loan for an extended period.

I'm sort of in the same boat as Jonathan. Except mine is...buy these, or pass.

There are so many things to love about this speaker. Especially the dynamics. I never thought you could get this big sound from a monitor. And of course...the detail, and the transparancy. And dang...they can flat out rock. I can crank it past the point of pain.

But they can be fatiguing. Now I don't think they're 'harsh' or 'edgy' or 'bright'. But they ain't 'warm and fuzzy' British monitors. They're pretty cold and clinical.

Now here's the question... I'm running SS amps. (all Odyssey) which I'd like to keep, but would these work better w/ tubes? I also know I need much better cables. I've currently got all Groneburg IC and Kimber 8TC speaker wire.

Or should I just move to another friendlier speaker? Is there one that does what this one can, but be more....uhmmm....relaxed?

I compare these speakers to dating the really hot girl. The one who thrills you, but is ultimately going be a pain in the *** and cost you a fortune to maintain, to the girl next door you can enjoy being around and not cost you an arm and a leg.

If the answer is tubes on the de Cappos.....and SS on subs, then I'd go that route.

I did hear a pair of these powered by some Antique Sound Lab 18w triode amps and thought they were glorious....except the bass was really flabby.

thanks in advance for any advice. It is a really fantastic little speaker (especially for the money) for all you fans. Don't take this post as a knock on it.

BTW: besides the Odyessy stuff (Tempest pre and Stratos Monos) my source is a Stan Warren modded aiwa changer/MSB dack rig. Not the most transparent, but a very smooth, almost analog front end. My sub is a Mirage BPS150i, which I like to replace someday, but doesn't suck. I'm running the monitors full range and rolling in the sub at 40hz.

I could probably play w/ room treaments too....but it's really not too bad now. It's big enough that I can get the speaks well out away from the walls.

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Nov 2004, 06:45 am »

Try room treatments...even though you have them well enough from the walls, that isn't the solution for a live sounding room.

Just get 4-6 boards of rigid fiberglass up (2" thick and 2.00PCF) behind the speakers and at the first reflection points.

Then see if you feel the same way.

If you do, then you might want to get a tube amp or perhaps a pair of Paul Speltz zero autoformers. up the impedance seen by the amp so it thinks it's driving 10ohm speakers instead and see if that takes away the bite/edge.

Good luck and have fun.

CMM · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Nov 2004, 02:21 pm »

Dr Photo,

See if you can find a good tube amp to audition with the DeCappos. I recently owned the Dulcets and was using a Unico with similar results to yours. I then hooked them up to an Audiomat Arpege and they were transformed. All the excitment, transparency, and detail remained but the edgyness and fatigue were totally removed. I am now considering purchasing the DeCappos.

audioslave · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Nov 2004, 02:40 pm »

Dr.Photo,
I own the Stratos/Tempest combo and have heard the MCrespo71's De Cappo's. He is using them with CJ/VTL Pre/Amp combo and they rock. From speaking with him, my understanding is that Ref 3's should really be run with tube electronics to get the most out of them. As much as he likes his speakers, he did not like the way they sounded with SS gear at all. The other thing is that the Ref 3's are very revealing of upstream equipment and if you get a very forward digital source, your speakers will certainly let you know it. I have heard it for myself in his system with two different sources.
My suggestion is decide whether you like the sound of your odyssey amp/pre or the ref 3a's more. Once you commit to that piece of equipment, build the rest of your system around it so that you can get the most synergy. It may require some trial and error and you may have to make some sacrifices, however the end result will be more to your liking. Good luck.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Nov 2004, 03:07 pm »

As audioslave alluded, the MMDCI is an ultra revealing speaker. I personally would never use it with SS. I tried it with what is considered the sweetest SS integrated (i.e., Plinius) and it wasn't bad, but I still contend you absolutely need tubes to get the best out of the MMDCI. You still get the transparency with tubes, but you get texture, scale, and more dimensionality when you use tubes. They can still be fatiguing if you have a bad source, but when everything is balanced at the front end, the MMDCI can be breathtaking and certainly one of the best values for $2500. You just need to plunk down some $ for electronics/source to get their best. If you are set on keeping your odyssey, look elsewhere IMO.

Michael

Terry · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Nov 2004, 10:17 pm »

I would have to agree with the comments of others but would add that not just any tube amp will do. The DeCapos just love 300B and 845 based amplifiers and, if you can manage this, it is well worth while. In addition, I have found near-field listening almost essential with this speaker. As soon as you stray significantly from the 60 degree angle to the tweeter, it starts to get bright.

doug s. · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Nov 2004, 04:29 pm »

i cannot imagine *ever* using solid state amplification on *any* speaker, other than a subwoofer...

doug s.

audiojerry · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Nov 2004, 04:42 pm »

Quote

Now here's the question... I'm running SS amps. (all Odyssey) which I'd like to keep, but would these work better w/ tubes? I also know I need much better cables. I've currently got all Groneburg IC and Kimber 8TC speaker wire.

Unless the Odyssey's are matched with the right speakers (like Klaus's Lorelei), your assessment of the sound is quite correct, especially with the wire you are using. As others have said, a good tube amp will be much easier on the nerve endings. Having just recently gotten to know Steve Sammet's abilities of SAS audio, he has a 25wpc tube amp that may just be the ticket, and he offers a 45 day trial period, I believe. A tuneable tube preamp, like the Minimax, may also help.

However, you would be sacrfricing some punch and dynamic impact from the Odyssey's for musicality - an easy choice for me. Does Klaus offer a trial period with his Lorelei's?

Jonathan · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Nov 2004, 02:21 am »

Well, I still have mine and the love/hate fest continues. Over the past couple of days I have been absolutely loving the sound of the Alison Krauss & Union Station Live SACD, and hating the sound of the Elton John Goodbye Yellow Brick Road SACD. I don't know what to say. I truly can't imagine that there aren't other similarly priced, high quality speakers out there that aren't more forgiving of the source recording.

On the other hand, I did just order a Benchmark DAC1 and am excited to check it out. I have no reason to suspect that it's going to be a cure for my problems with the DCs, but it'll be interesting to hear how much better the good stuff is going to sound.

Before giving up completely, I would love to hear the De Capos with a decent tube amp, preferably an SET, to see if that really is the magic potion for these speakers. Anyone out there in the NE Ohio area who wants to bring his/her amp over would be very welcome. The beer is on me.

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Nov 2004, 03:09 am »

The DeCapos, the way I see it are sort of accurate, but not necessarily analytical speakers. What you are simply getting is that the monitors are amplifying the qualities of the SS amp you have. Synergistic combination as everyone here mentions is for call. Get the right tubed amp and you will be rocking....or if you get the wrong tubed amp, the lows will be flabby, especially if you come from the SS camp.

I for example, have two pairs of monitors that you may classify as warm, smooth, but even with these monitors, Epos ES 11 and the Gershman x-1 satellites, you can have "too much of a good thing." Thanks to the DNA 225 I have which runs ever slightly to the cooler side of the sonic spectrum, it balances rather synergistically with the X-1s and add on top of that the Final Laboratories Music 5 battery powered preamp, the whole set up just sends up the performance up.

You will never be happy simply by piecing a system and expecting one component to play up with the other. In this case, you need to make priorities, either favor the speaker or favor the amp.

Cannot win all the time.