[econ]

If I want to make a HT system based on the 55W aksa what do I do ?
I need "dummies" style recipe book guidance here. I have 4 individual 55W AKSA channels so far and 2 100w AKSA channels.

Some questions  I need to solve , in no particular order, are:

What can I use as the HT decoder ?   Is it right that some commercial HT decoding/ amplifier  units allow bypassing of the amp section , which would mean I could use aksa amplification ?  There are also dedicated processors/preamps .Is this a better alternative match with aksa ?

How does GK-1 fit into this ? There is a home theatre by pass for the GK-1 what does this mean ?

My desktop PC soundcard is sometimes hooked up to the TLP/aksa if I watch a movie played through the PC DVD, but there is noise coming through the line from the fan/dvd drive/power supply in the PC. Is a soundcard a reasonable 5.1 decoder ?

Is a subwoofer necessary ? Can an aksa power this ? How do you hook it up ?  Ive read Hughs FAQ . There are also very good posts on harmonic discord .

How does it all tie together ?More than anything I'm trying to build a mental picture of what components I need & how all the components physically connect together . Thanks all .

[Oz_Audio]

econ,

This system would fit with your current amps and you would have the best sounding HT possible.  It is very unconventional.

DVD player - buy a SACD or DVDA (your choice) with onboard decoder.  Set up the decoder for 2 mains and 2 surrounds with no centre channel and no sub.

Preamp - 1 x GK1 stage 2.  for the main channel from the DVD and input selector for TV, Tuner etc. Plus 1 x GK1 stage 1 for the surround channels from the DVD.  Ask Hugh to not provide the attenuators but get a DACT 4 channel - 2 channels to each GK1.

Main and Surround speakers, again your choice, but keep them the same.  My preference would be 4 x TLb http://www.t-linespeakers.org/projects/tlB/index.html
easy to build and very good sound, cheap too.  Powered by the AKSA 55.  Or 4 AKSonics.

Subs - 2 x Linkwitz Phoenix dipole using the Peerless XLS12 http://www.linkwitzlab.com/woofer3.htm
use Mr Linkwitz's active crossover for this sub and power each driver by the AKSA 100.  As you have 2 of these, 1 channel per driver.

As I said very unconventional as no centre channel is included, but I have this system in 2 channel only and the speakers image so well with the GK1 and 55 that I believe the centre would not add anything.

You would end up with the GK1 for all modes of listening including DVD so sound would not be compromised in any way and the project would end up costing you less money to build.

The next step up would be to build the ORION or Phoenix as the mains, but the cost goes up significantly.

I have explained this system  on HD and unfortunatly as yet I have not added the second GK1 to my system yet.  I have had friends around to watch DVD's and they have all said I have the best multi channel sound they have heard and it comes from 2 channel + 1 sub only.  When I get to build the obove system, the sound will be sensational, especially when listening to DVDA.

Mark

[SamL]

Well this is what I am going to do....

3 power amp, A, B, C.
Power amp A which driver the 2 main speaker will have an additional on board source selector. One source connected to stereo preamp, another connect to HT decoder. Connect DVD digital out to HT decoder. Analog out to stereo preamp. Power amp A and 2 main speaker can now be use for music and HT.
Power amp B driver the centre channel and sub. Add another source selector and you can use the sub for stereo music and HT.
Power amp C driver the rear channel

BTW, all this will be out the window when you switch to multichannel SACD or DVD-A as everything will come from the decoder.

Crazy idea?
Sam

[econ]

Starting to get a picture now. Can I ask clarification on a couple of points ?

oz Audio:

Preamp - 1 x GK1 stage 2. for the main channel from the DVD and input selector for TV, Tuner etc. Plus 1 x GK1 stage 1 for the surround channels from the DVD. Ask Hugh to not provide the attenuators but get a DACT 4 channel - 2 channels to each GK1.

An attenuator instead of a dact. What do the attenuators do ?
Is a dact a way of controlling the input into each GK1 ?

SamL:

Power amp C driver the rear channel

power amp c would it need its own gk1 between the HT processor and the Aksa ?

Connect DVD digital out to HT decoder. Analog out to stereo preamp. Power amp A and 2 main speaker can now be use for music and HT.

Analog here meaning cd player , tuner , turntable ?


Thanks guys.

[Oz_Audio]

The attenuators (volume control) that Hugh supplies are 2 channel only.

You would need to get a 4 channel attenuator.  DACT makes one.

http://www.dact.com/html/attenuators.html

You could use the standard attenuators but you would need a rubber band around both so all 4 channels are the same.  Very agricultural.

I hope this makes sence.

Mark

[AKSA]

Folks,

As you are all aware, I really don't know too much about home theater, so defer utterly to Mark (Oz Audio), whose comments are masterful.

This is not to say I have any negative thoughts about home theater.  I don't.  It's just that I don't visit the hifi salons of this city and haven't got a clue, but it does seem to me that the construction of the AKSA lends itself nicely to four or five channel.  (Two 55W on each side, one 55W or 100W in the center at the rear on a smaller heatsink.)

Thanks Mark,

Cheers,

Hugh

[SamL]

Hi econ,

What Mark suggested and what I suggested are two different direction. Mark's is using the DVD player with build in decoder and connect the analog out to GK1. As there are more then 2 analog source, you will need multiple GK1.
My idea is to use 1 x GK1 (analog preamp) and 1 x HT processor with a normal DVD player. BTW, HT processor has its own volume control. Mine is unconventional as I now add a source selector on the power amp (no volume control) and allow the power amp to be driven by either GK1 or HT processor. This is to have the best of music and HT through the same system.
If you have a 4 position source selector on the power amp, you can connect  high end soundcard's analog out to it too and control the volume through your PC. Or you can connect the digital out from your soundcard to the HT processor. The advantage of HT processor is that they have multi chn volume control, channel delay, sub out with them. You can use budget model like Promedia DD-5.1 from Klipsch, mid range model like 995 from Outlaw or high end model from Meridian.

Cheers,
Sam

[Felipe]

Hi Econ,

I have been in Multichannel audio for some time, almost since it first appeared. I also changed my equipment various times and have some ideas i can share with you, so you can decide wich is the best path for you to follow.

The basic multichannel system uses a DVD, plus a Decoder, plus power amps and speakers. Some DVD's have decoders incorporated in them, but , im my experience, these Decoders are far from what you can get from a dedicated DAC. That said, almost no one uses the DAC's in the DVD in multchannel. The one existing on current Processors or Receivers have much superior sound. This is where the "soul" of the system stands...the processing. You can get an inumerous number of formats from a DVD, being Stereo PCM , Dolby Digital or DTS , 5.1 or 6.1 .

From my own experience, you shoul take advantage of these formats using a good decoder. The option posted by OZ seems extraordinary GOOD, and it shwos how you can get "Valve pre-amplification" using the GK-1. Almost NO ONE has a "Valve" pre-amplifier in their multichannel system. It makes a diference. BUT........ his system , as OZ said is not convencional AND he does not use DTS or DD 5.1 . He uses 2 front and 2 REAR. Undoubtly the GK-1 make the image perfect...but for me you have to have a decoder...so take a look at this system, its what i design for me...when i have the cash:

Source : DVD ( Various $$ depending on what you want : SACD, good picture, etc )

Processor : This one should be a multichannel DAC. Some processors like Rotel, Arcam, TagMclaren, or even Lexicon or Nagra, offer extreme processing qualities...but they are expensive. Its worth it though....you should pick one that offers a fixed volume output. The Rotel costs as much as 2 AKSA 100.

You could plug in the AKSA's now...but to make the system SHINE...we put in the GK-1.

Pre-amplifier - A GK-1 with 6 analog volume controler. That is - 3x GK-1, but with the same volume controller. The 5 channels, left, right , surround R and L plus the SUB.

Power amps - The 2 front channels are the most important. NO DOUBT here. So you should put your best AKSA here. The 100w AKSA.
The center channel should be equal to these, but you can put a 55w and be almost as well served. ITS AN AKSA !
The rear channels do not require more than 55w. Put a 55w aksa here.

Some ppl like to bi-amp...but that is your choice...it has nothing to do with multichannel setup.

SUB - Choose a good one compatible with your budget. Some processor can handle 2 Subs ! This is execelent ! 2 quality low power subs make much better sound than 1 lousy super power one.
This would require a 7 channel GK-1.

Speakers - Whatever soots your ears. The perfect system would have 5 identical speakers...but that is almost impossible to achieve. Most ppl spend more money in the 2 front, then the centre , and less on the surrounds. These back speakers have much fewer infuence on overall sound than the 2 in the front. So...just make sure you choose a balanced speaker system. Use the same brand or builder.

Hope you find a system that you like!

Have a great day.

Felipe

[Pleb Plebian]

Hi guys
FWIW, I'm looking at something similar in my listening environment: I'd class my sound as "70% music, 30% HT"....a ratio gradually creeping towrds more HT :-)
I agree with most of what has been said with one exception: in HT, a good centre channel is (IMO) _crucial_....as of course is a good amp powering it.

I'm considering a system with a GK-1 on L and R, a TLP running both rears, 1/2 of another running the centre channel, other half held in reserve for upgrading from 5.1 to 6.1...all run from a good surround processor with variable out (high-ish end Yamaha or medium Rotel/NAD sort of thing).
I know there's no need for the Aksa pre's to buffer the output from the proc...but I like the sound :-)
Subwoofer amps (dual subs) would be run direct from the proc.
Volume, although controlled by the proc, would be set via resistors (or maybe trimpots..hmm: will continue thinking on this) for the HT side for all pre sections, allowing soundstage setup.

Switching between HT and audio is simple - good quality relays for power, along with high quality relays for signal in, and on the GK, pot-vs-resistor volume control, all driven from the surround proc (or possibly in my case, the projector) - when that goes on, all switches across and gets into running mode.

Amplification: I'm presently sitting on 2x100W Aksa's - as soon as I get some time (ie after I get married!) I'll be building those and doing lots of A/B comparisons with my biamped 55's.
I expect, however, that I'll end up with the biamped 55's on both (stereo) L and R, a 100-W on the centre and some cheap'n'crappy thing driving the rears (until I can find someone else to do a deal with for half an amp kit :-) - or decide to go 6.1 in which case I just buy another stereo kit!!).
Subs are handled by a dedicated power amp - Plinius SA-100 in class A-B mode: 300-odd clean watts per channel- so I'm not too concerned about them at present.


Oh - FWIW: the absolute best upgrade to my HT system I've acheived to date is to buy an old late-1970's circa amp and speakers - the big old ugly sort, with a 12" woofer and horrible little tweeter in big boomy speaker boxes....
Put one of these ea end of the couch (they make a good coffee table for yr beer and all!!) with the drivers facing IN to the couch. Run the amp input from the sub out on yr processor - then tweak until the couch *just*rattles* as your favourite gunfire/dinosaur/train crash/W.H.Y. occurs.....adds a whole new dimension to the movie!

Bang for your buck, this can't be beat - mine ended up costing me about $40 including some ugly cables and RCA's for hookup....great stuff!

Anyway - HTH. Anyone have a DTS/DD decoder going cheap? :-))
Cheers
-D

[SamL]

Congratulation Darl and welcome to the club.

I am waiting for my AKSA100 with nirvana to arrive. Which NZ source transformer model would you recommend?


Thanks,
Sam

[AKSA]

Hi Sam,

If you haven't already, you really must meet Darl.  He is an audio guru of very considerable note, with huge resourcefulness and unbelievable listening skills.  He and I developed the GK-1 together!

Cheers,

Hugh

[SamL]

Hi Hugh,

We did exchange a few email and he even offer to send the GK1 over. I kindly decline as I still have a long way to go before I get to replace the preamp.

Will like to meet him and listen to his system. The problem is 7 hours of driving....

Sam

[Pleb Plebian]

<cough> <blush>  - you can tell Hugh hasn't actually met me in person!! -Like my missus says: "I'm just really good at faking it" ;-)

Sam: am waiting on a couple of replies at present: one from the Akl Transformer Co (custom toroids), another from an importer (R-cores: not a mojor for me, as I'll be remote-mounting these from the amp boards).
RS are the only 'as built' source I've found in NZ - and are silly $$.
Will post when I know more
Cheers
-Darl

[Audiofng]

econ,

I am new here, I have looked very hard at the AKSA amp because I also would like to incorporate it into a HT system.  I haven't had the opportunity to listen to the ASKA as of yet but going by the posts here and on the net, it sounds like it would be stellar for HT and music combined.  

You and I look like we are after the same idea.  I noticed on your original post that you sometimes run your dvd from your computer.  Well that is exactly what I have planned.  Have you looked in the AVSciene web site www.avscience.com under HTPC (Home Theater Personal Computer).  There is some very interesting info in there that could help you in your quest.

In regards to the hum and noise you are getting through your computer system now, just one thought, are they both plugged into the same power recepticle?  If not you may have the same problem I think I do.  A ground loop, maybe.  I have not tried to eliminate it as of yet.  But I would not count out the idea of running from your computer especially if you have, or plan on getting a high definition television or projection set.

Have a look at the products that Digital Connection www.digitalconnection.com has available for HTPC especially the new Revolution sound card from M-Audio (7.1 Channel capable).

As I said I am still in the research process.  If you have any questions e-mail me.

Hope this can be of some help.

thanks,
Clint

[Larry]

When I asked at the Hunter Valley information center what cellars I should visit if I was only to visit a couple of them (Hunter Valley is a wine country north to Sydney where are homes of dozens of wineries), the lady behind the counter told me that they all are unique and worth to visit. That was absolutely true but certainly it wasn't the answer I expected. Later I learnt to tell good wines and bad wines but I don't know what is the best. However, I have no problem to tell what are my favourites.

Enjoying HiFi is just like enjoying wines.

My favourite systems for music and home theater are seperate.

Practical reasons: I don't go to lounge and sit at the sweet spot and start listening to music, except maybe doing tests. I listen to music when I am doing something in my study, for instance, typing this post in front of my computer, while I don't watch TV when I am doing something in my study, normally. I watch TV when I am in my lounge watching TV  

Technical reasons: The system configurations and performance criterias are not the same.

The roles of the subwoofer in music and HT systems are different. The subwoofer in a music system is to help reproduce the mid and deep bass (16-100Hz) of the two stereo channels so that it takes the input from two main stereo channels. In an HT system, the subwoofer is supposed to take the input from the .1 in 5.1 format, which is the band-limited low frequency effects (LFE) channel or redirected bass by the decoder, and all other 5 channels are still running at full range. Using smaller amps and speakers for rear channels is the idea of the analog ProLogic format, where the rear channels, bandwith limited from 100 Hz to 7 Khz, are derived from two main channels and so the center channel is. In contrast, for digital formats such as AC3 (DolbyDigital) and DTS, in particular multichannel SACD and DVD-Audio formats, all 5 channels are discrete and independently coded full range main channels, which require equal systems for proper reproduction to correctly produce a summed sound vector at the listening position. The ways to tweak a system for 5 channels music would be very different from 2 channel recordings. By the way, most movie soundtracks in AC3 or DTS formats are compressed with lossy compression so that some subtle details are eliminated so that the means to reproduce detailed information in stereo music is not meaningful for DVD movies.

In music systems, it is a great challenge for two channels to create a realistic sound field and soundstage. HT or multichannel music systems, taking advantages of extra channels, extra bit depth and higher sampling frequency, can create sound field, soundstage and sound of better clarity with ease, which demond a bit less from amps in accuracy. In the same time, for recent movies and TV series, the challenge to the amps and speakers is to produce impressive sound effects, quickly and powerfully. A powerful amp here is not really for loudness but more for quick transient and adequate dynamic to make the impact on you together with what you see on the screen.  In this case, the sound to be produced is not tuneful at all in most of time, but odd sounding. If they were not from our speakers but from outside of our windows, we would call them all noises. So, a musical speaker is not necessarily a good, "noise" making, HT speaker.

To play DVD or multichannel music tracks, there are a few other things to be aware of. The center channel is very critical as it mainly delivers the voice. Human voice plays a major role along with sound effects in movies and it is very, very difficult to get voice right. (Try a well recorded speaking voice track in your system and you can easily tell the coloration, more easily than music and a singing voice.) Sound effects are mostly computer generated these days, not from natural mechanism, however to use a natural mechanic device, our dear speaker, to produce them as sound. Not quite fair. Furthermore, multichannel recordings are mostly digitally mixed, or in other words, they are all fake. Two channel format has existed for so many years and there are still few recording engineers who can get it right. People got to wait decades for recording engineers to learn to get the multichannel recording right. Before that, we all have to listen to fake soundfield and soundstage created at mixing decks. I believe people would agree that there are less good recording engineers in the world than pandas on the earth. So the requirements on HT system performance are different from music systems.

In conclusion, roles and connections of subwoofers are different; source materials are different; quality criterias are different; usage habits are different; speakers perform differently for different tasks; rules for system tuning are also different.

On my music system, I will probably tweak it constantly forever. It's always Under Construction.  

For my HT system, a good audio and video swithing mechanism is a must. So either a HT receiver or a A/V preamp/processor is necessary. I can tolerate fiddling with switches, connectors and cables around my music system but I can not tolerate any manual touch on any connnections on my HT system. When I lounge in a couch and watch TV, I just want to hop from STB to DVD to VCR to Satellite, constantly and instantly, by only allowing one arm and few fingers to perform that.

From my experience with my current HT system, a video format conversion capability among component video, S-video and composite video in the HT receiver/processor is highly desirable. (My wife always complained she got the picture lost when switching from DVD to VCR, where DVD was connected with S-video and VCR was connected with composite video and my Denon HT receiver does not do video format conversion so that when changing from DVD to VCR, the TV video input has to be switched from AV1, which is S-video connected, to AV2, which is composite video connected. Even for myself when I got the picture lost while switching sources, I got to pause and recall which AV input on TV the picture was on now.  "Where is the TV remote?" I shouted in a big hurry. Not to mention my wife and kid screaming for help to get back the pictures from a couple of rooms away.   -- This is a scenario that psychology and ergonomics factors into the funcitonality design. That was ok in the first few months when I first got my fresh new HT receiver but later it did become a bit of hassles, for all of us. -- When the excitement and curiosity is gone, the real factors will step in. By the way, soon I found my kid was clever to stick to the RF for TV, DVD, VCR and Satellite whatever, to get rid of the hassles and never turned the HT system on anymore. -- The product is given up if some areas can not be satisfied. It was lucky that I routed all RF properly at the beginning in case it would be used. At the end, my current HT configuration is to not use the S-video of DVD of better video quality but retreats to composite video of DVD so that the picture would not be lost when switching from DVD to VCR or whatever. -- The convenience has been traded with quality in different mode of usage. In addition, do you think your next TV set may have a component video so that you can make use of? If you find what I am talking about is confusing, you surely need the video conversion capability in your HT system. )  So, for HT systems, the priority of features are different from music systems due to different mode of usage and purposes.

AKSA is a major upgrade over consumer HT receivers' amp sections. I tried to connect the AKSA to my Denon HT receiver's preouts. The improvement is very obvious. This gives me motivation to go seperate in my HT system as well. So an A/V preamp/processor is on my wishlist for my HT system upgrade. Rotel 1066 is on my radar. There are other A/V preamps around but their prices are beyond my tolerance. Rotel 1066 is just above AU$2000. (And it is expected to drop after Rotel releases its new model with a TFT video display soon. I don't know why there should be a video display at the front pannel. I don't know why I should need that. Is it another waste like picture-in-picture kind of thing you pay it and you never use it? But I don't mind seeing they produce new models with features I don't need and drop the price of old models with features I die for. ) Considering 5 channel AKSAs and 5 speakers to match, plus a good subwoofer, Rotel takes a reasonable proportion of the budget for what it does.

With such a good sound in HT, what about the picture? A 16:9 for a better view? Digital TV to get rid of ghosting and ringing at the edges? Component video? Progressive decoder? HDTV screen? ... Oh, well, I will stick to my 4:3 Panasonic for a while until the plasma drops to a level I could afford, I wish, as fast as .com shares did. Once I replaced the stock power cord on my digital satellite decoder with a screened power cable, the effect is very obvious. In this case, I had to adjust the contrast or color again on the TV set to optimize the picture and the results are sharper pictures with more details and less noises over the scanning lines. (Digital decoders are notorious for emitting noises through power cables.) I never thought my ancient Panasonic can have such good pictures. For the last bit of background noises I could see from a distance of a couple of feet, I don't know whether I should open the TV case and upgrade the coupling capacitor with a videophile grade one.  

So, my advice is to get an A/V preamp/processor and build your AKSAs then connect your STB, DVD, VCR and whatever sources you have then you will be happy. An A/V preamp/processor with some useful features is the heart of a home theater -- don't skip it; ease of use is a big factor in HTs. It could be a solution to make use of the preouts of an A/V receiver, but if you are concerned of the quality of your HT by upgrading the amp to AKSA, you won't be satisfied with the A/V preamp section of any consumer A/V receivers, not to mention the built-in processors/decoders in DVD players. Also, don't omit any channels. The information in the omitted channel is not carried in any other channels and will be lost for ever. (Unless you have a high quality A/V precessor that can redirect the signal in the omitted channel to other channels, which is compromising the surround sound quality, and if you can get that kind of A/V processor, why bother to omit a channel in the first place.)