[stump4545]

does a Mac Mini sound better then an Apple Air would for a Jriver setup?

are modded mac mini's a good upgrade to consider?

At shows, I see many use just any Apple Laptop.

thank you.

[dB Cooper]

The Mac Minis can be thought of as headless Apple laptops. Looking at the specs will show you how they equate. One big difference though is that the Airs are 100% solid state storage whereas the Mini is HD/ hybrid drive/ SSD (depending on how you $et it up.) Not such a big deal for real-time playing of music files but might factor in with a machine used for multiple purposes.

Based on what I have seen out there in terms of music servers and "streamers", I'm not sure there is any sonic reason to go any further than the cost of a Raspberry Pi, an HD, and possibly an external DAC of your choice. Every other solution I have seen seems to consist of equivalent functionality more or less, just in a pretty box. If you go with the Mini, and it will be a dedicated server only, you can go with the el  cheapo version- playing audio is an easy task by todays computing standards. An external DAC is worth investing in; even a Schiit Modi or similar would probably be a worthwhile investment. You could also spend the $$$ you save by going with the Raspberry Pi on a high quality DAC.

[stump4545]

thanks for the reply.


but does a mini sound "better' then a apple laptop would?

anyone here have a modded mini?

sounds better?

[JLM]

Related ?:  How do minis with the "super mods" of years past compare to today's reasonably priced dedicated servers (not the DIY stuff - I'm a computer caveman and can't deal with that)?

BTW I've had several users of minis pooh-pooh my MacBook Air because of the screen, yet some of them use screens/keyboard/mice in use.  (I went the Air route for my consulting business and it drove me nuts to have a 3rd computer in the same room - the back of my study is my office with a iMac - and the Air was only $200 more than a nicely equipped iPad.)  I honestly don't think anyone can "hear the screen".

[jparkhur]

It is my opinion with the processing power of the mac mini vs and air, you should go with the mini.  You can always stick a SSD in it and you can add RAM yourself in the bottom.  The most inexpensive way to help with computer sound-RAM.  It is small, cheap too... here is a link to the b stock of mac mini's, for 400 bucks or so you can get everything you need.  I have a mini, attached usb dac with a dual head usb cable, one major drive -8 tb for all music, and the last port is used to a hub with back up drives and burners. 

Check these every so often and new stock appears..

http://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/mac


mac mini-ifi dac 2-Toutuga LDR (trung)-Pass Labs ACA Amps
Pi Audio dual head USB, power/info on different cables

[GentleBender]

The newest model of Mac Minis, do not have the option of upgrading RAM, it is soldered to the motherboard. To install a new HDD whether conventional spinning platters or SSD, you must totally disassemble the Mac Mini to get to the HDD bay. That includes removing the motherboard and power supply. You will need a tamper resistant T6 (a t6 bit with a hole in the middle)to get inside. It is not very hard, just make sure to take your time to avoid damaging connectors and thin wires. If you use a search engine (e.g. Google, Bing, duckduckgo.com) you will find plenty of videos and info to walk you through.

[dB Cooper]

It is my opinion with the processing power of the mac mini vs and air, you should go with the mini.  You can always stick a SSD in it and you can add RAM yourself in the bottom.

GentleBender is correct about the RAM being soldered on the logic board. I cannot think of any good reason for this other than to lock in the buyer to Apple's inflated RAM prices, but there you are. You shouldn't need beaucoup RAM for an audio server application, but if you do want to upgrade the RAM, you have to order it that way. A used pre-2014 model would be a good choice, maybe even a better choice, especially with the addition of the aforementioned SSD and a RAM upgrade.

I continue to maintain that a Raspberry PI-based setup would work just as well, be a lot more flexible and DIY friendly, and cost much less (Hey, I have a C&C mindset and budget.). A Volumio based Pi setup can be up and running in 15-20 min including unboxing.

[jparkhur]

The 2014 s were avail. last week for 450... on the referb site

[jparkhur]

What about raspberry Pi 3.. i know HAL is doing work with this and others have installed windows based music drivers..???

[dB Cooper]

Apparently the upgraded CPU in the 3 requires OS & software to be recompiled. This is still in progress. Consensus seems to be that, while the 3 has some niceties like more power/RAM and onboard wifi, eliminating the need for a "dongle", the 2 is fully up to the task. Good starting point to learn about the Pi as an audio server can be found at www.hifiberry.com. Here is their FAQ page on the 3: https://www.hifiberry.com/2016/02/the-new-raspberry-pi-3-is-out/ . I for one would love to hear from HAL or anyone else who has more specifics. I  particularly have my eye on Volumio, a nearly turnkey OS & audio player for the Pi 2.

[Odal3]

Moode just released a test release (2.6)  that works out of the box with rpi3. Full release will probably by out in a few weeks. Tim who is behind moode is really quick with the updates.
http://moodeaudio.org

I might be wrong on this, but I believe HAL is experimenting with windows on rpi3 while moode and Volumio is raspian linux based. In other words, while either may be good, the music player and interface will be different.

Unless you want to upsample your media in real time to DSD level or run some convulution engines (room correction or crossover in software), you don't need much CPU  power at all to play music. Playing flac files on a rpi2 uses about 10% of cpu. So regardless of using rpi or mac, my recommendation is to pick the most energy efficient and silent hardware spec you can find (less energy = less heat = less annoying fans plus cheaper to update power supply).

If you do go with a more powerful computer, I highly recommend upgrading to SSD = silent. (Or even better, put the music files on a separate NAS in a different room)

[roscoeiii]

I'd recommend looking into older model Minis with easily user replaceable hard drives and RAM, as well as a CD/DVD drive built in. This has worked great for me for music as well as streaming Hulu/Netflix etc to my non-smart TV via HDMI. There are a number of good screen sharing options available that should work with laptops, tablets and smartphones.

[AllynW]

I used a MacAir laptop for a while with a large external USB HD.  It was older and only had 2 gig's of RAM but it functioned ok.  I now use a un-modified late 2012 Mac Mini. I didn't hear an appreciable difference after the switch.  I've never used Jriver, I only use iTunes and Swinsian for playback.  Also, I've always used a DAC and never used computer playback directly into my stereo rig.

Take a minute and visit:   http://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals

I've purchased two refurbished laptops from Apple and never had an issue.

Good Luck.

[roscoeiii]

For longevity's sake, I'd also recommend a model that allows for easily swapping out the hard drive.

[brj]

Note that on the 2010-2014 Mac Mini's, you can easily (and reversibly) convert to DC power if desired by using the Uptone Audio Mac mini DC-Conversion / Linear Fan Controller Kit and connecting it to a 12V linear power supply or battery.  (This also replaces the fan controller, which is one of the electrically noisier components in the machine.)  Some people have gone so far as to max out the RAM, boot from an SDHC card, and then run from a RAM disk, so as to avoid having even the SATA bus powered.

I agree with the recommendation to retrofit any Mac Mini with an SSD, if it didn't come with one initially.  Aside from lowering the physical noise of the machine, it also reduces the total heat generation, which therefore lessens the need for the fan.

GentleBender is correct about the RAM being soldered on the logic board. I cannot think of any good reason for this other than to lock in the buyer to Apple's inflated RAM prices, but there you are.

Soldering the RAM is one done to enable a thinner laptop design, and is a feature common to every "ultrabook" style laptop that I know of, both Mac and PC.  See the new HP Spectre for reference.  (SO DIMM slots are actually very thick in comparison to the total thickness of this style of laptop.)  In addition, soldering the RAM gives the manufacturer the freedom to place the modules anywhere on the logic board they like, easing the layout design.

The current Mac Minis have soldered RAM because they use a laptop derived logic board.

[JohnR]

The 2012 mini is the one to get IMO - USB3 but still has replaceable/upgradeable RAM. No, not that easy to replace the HDD/SSD(s) but at least it's doable.

With that said, RPi and other SBCs (single board computers) are an interesting (Fun? ) option these days.

[dB Cooper]

Note that on the 2010-2014 Mac Mini's, you can easily (and reversibly) convert to DC power if desired by using the Uptone Audio Mac mini DC-Conversion / Linear Fan Controller Kit and connecting it to a 12V linear power supply or battery.  (This also replaces the fan controller, which is one of the electrically noisier components in the machine.)  Some people have gone so far as to max out the RAM, boot from an SDHC card, and then run from a RAM disk, so as to avoid having even the SATA bus powered.

I agree with the recommendation to retrofit any Mac Mini with an SSD, if it didn't come with one initially.  Aside from lowering the physical noise of the machine, it also reduces the total heat generation, which therefore lessens the need for the fan.


Soldering the RAM is one done to enable a thinner laptop design, and is a feature common to every "ultrabook" style laptop that I know of, both Mac and PC.  See the new HP Spectre for reference.  (SO DIMM slots are actually very thick in comparison to the total thickness of this style of laptop.)  In addition, soldering the RAM gives the manufacturer the freedom to place the modules anywhere on the logic board they like, easing the layout design.

The current Mac Minis have soldered RAM because they use a laptop derived logic board.

Makes sense, but I was referring to the Mini rather than laptops. And AFAIK the Minis have always used laptop-derived logic boards, including the nearly identical 2012 with user replaceable RAM, have they not?

[brj]

I agree on the 2012 recommendation for the same reasons, and the fact that it was the last year they offered a quad-core i7.  (Though the new i7s do have faster cores, so you need to be conscious of how you intend to use the machine when evaluating 2 newer cores vs 4 older cores.)

Yes, as far as I know, the Mac Mini logic boards have always been laptop derived.

[Dracule1]

Just my take on the Mac Mini as a music server since my last 3 servers were based on Mac Mini.  My first was based on the 2009 Mini that the power supply built into the power cord.  Then subsequent version that had the power supply built in.  Now I have battery powered Quad Core Mac Mini server from dB Audio Labs by Eric Hider. I know there's a lot of controversy as to which is better, Mac vs PC.  I have not had extensive personal experience with PC based servers, just what I heard at audio shows and dealers.  None of them really impressed me.  What I can say about the dB Audio Labs Mac Mini server is that it is a revelation, unlike all the other versions of Mac Mini servers I've auditioned and heard.  According to Eric, he and his software engineer basically rewrote and optimized the OS code that deals with audio and got rid of code that degraded the audio signal.  He installed ultra fast RAM, SSD, and added battery power supply.  Many of you may not realize how good construction of Mac Mini is to begin with as a server.  Eric just took it to level no one else has.

As for the sound quality, it was akin to jumping from a $2-3k DAC to a $10k+ DAC.  What I immediately heard was clarity and transparency.  The high frequency was extended, detailed, and not etched. It was like going from a soft dome tweeter to the finest ribbon tweeter.  There was a jump in midrange openness and transparency.  Sound stage and imaging went up another level.  The sound was faster with better microdynamics.  I didn't hear a significant improvement in bass extension, but base was clearer and more tuneful. 

In case you're wondering about my reference system, I have the Lampizator GG DAC with Takasuki 275B rectifier tube and Elrog 300B tubes as the source.  My speakers are the Raidho D2, rebuilt Quad ESL 57, and Ridge Street Audio Design Sason (2-way speaker with Duelund CAST caps and resistors, scatter wound inductors, silver ribbon wiring weighing 240 lb each).  My amp amps are Bob Carver Cherry 180 tube mono block amplifier (pi wound OPT, Vcap coupling caps, and built in Goldpoint attenuator), Bedini 1 Meg 25/25 Class A amp, and vintage Pioneer M22 class A amp.  I have a dedicated audio room with extensive room treatments and dedicated AC lines and line conditioning. Yes, the dB Audio Labs Mac Mini Server is good enough to feed this system.

Most of all, it is very affordable, and you get a money back guarantee.  Just call Eric hider. His costumer services is second to none.  I am just a very happy customer.