[kujocku]

I am thinking of upgrading my speakers from paradigm studio 40s to perhaps the loreleis. My concern in this regard is this: while I listen to music I do not just sit in front of the speakers too often, I might be lying on the floor, or reading at the table or other off axis listening. My studio 40s are great for off axis listening. They have a very neutral presentation and good tonal balance with good detail. And my wife likes them a lot. So any thing that I replace them with better be a definite improvement, and well worth the money. Of late I have upgraded alot of my stuff with odyssey components. While this has made my speakers sound better, they still lack soundstage depth and they never really disappear. I read many posts about how musical the loreleis are, however would they lack the detail of the paradigms, are they good for off axis listening like my wife and I do?          I've eliminated some speakers for lack of off axis properties, Gallo, usher,vmps. All fine speakers but perhaps not quite right for my wife and I. Any other speakers you may think of that fits these parameters please chime in I would appreciate it. We like jazz mostly with some classical and some rock. If no speaker fits the bill then I might have Chris at Parts connection do an upgrade of my crossovers. Thank you, Neil

[byteme]

Neil,

One of my criteria when looking was good off axis sound.  We'll occasionally have people over for dinner and have everyone in the kitchen while the tunes are on, and then keep them on while we eat.  The main listening room is just off both the kitchen and dining room.  Still sounds great!  Sure, the image isn't there but it's still full and live sounding - it sounds like Nora or Frank or whoever is in the other room singing.

I've said it before about the detail of the Lorelie's - it's there and there is plenty of it!  I think it's just masked by the great musicality, it's not their #1 attribute, but that doesn't mean that it isn't there!

As for a crossover upgrade, I went that route with my Polk RTA11tl's, I spend a couple hundred bucks on upgraded parts and Cardas binding posts.  It really made them sound better - much better.  But, they were still the weak link in the system.  They lasted another year longer than they would have in my system had I not done the crossover, but in the end, I still bought the Lorelei's.

Hope this helps!  let me know if you have any other questions.

One last thing, as Klaus always touts, there is something to the synergy of the Odyssey gear.  I've got Groneberg TS premium cables between DAC & Pre, Pre & Amp and for speaker cables, Stratos Stereo extreme and the Lorelei's.  Wonderful stuff!

[vpolineni]

kujocku,
   it's only been 24 hours, but i'm amazed at how the the lorelies disappear... i honestly forget that they are there and just listen to the music.   If you buy a pair, I highly recommend you get the dark cherry finish... imho, it's absolutely stunning.  I got significant kudos from my signficant other after owning speakers like thiel cs3.6.  She said she likes their size because they make you forget about them and just listen to the music.  To be honest with you, I was concerned that I would lose some detail in my recordings if I purchased these.  (that's why I didn't purchase the other speakers on my short list-neat vitos).  Don't worry about it.  the detail is still there-it's just part of the recording to where you don't dissect it... I think alex of odyssey audio singapore said it best in a different thread:

We heard layers and layers of details. And not too analytical or dry... which makes it very musical.

I can't say it any better than that.     Where do you live?  I'm one of the lorelei owners would be willing to give you an audition.... I hope this helps.  Good luck.

[byteme]

Where do you live? I'm one of the lorelei owners would be willing to give you an audition....

Ditto here.

[avalon65]

I am thinking of upgrading my speakers from paradigm studio 40s to perhaps the loreleis. My concern in this regard is this: while I listen to music I do not just sit in front of the speakers too often, I might be lying on the floor, or reading at the table or other off axis listening. My studio 40s are great for off axis listening. They have a very neutral presentation and good tonal balance with good detail. And my wife likes them a lot. So any thing that I replace them with better be a definite improvemen ...

I don't own the Loreleis, but instead have the Nightingales. I also have a Tempest and Stratos. System synergy is abundant in my house! I wanted to chime in because the Nightingales replaced Paradigm Studio 60s. I could go on and on about the difference and what an upgrade I made, but to get to your query of off axis listening, I spend my day in home office with my rig belting out tunes in the living room. I couldn't believe the improvement I heard from a room away. The sound coming from the Nightingales just sounded more natural and life-like than the Studio 60s. I don't think you can get more off axis than another room away. Call "Big K" he'll steer you in the right direction. Are you using a sub with the 40s?

LJ

[marvda1]

have you listened to the paradigm signature s4's?  i haven't heard them but did listen to the s8's. they were pretty nice,well balanced with great bass, but at $5400 a little steep for me.

[kujocku]

I'd like to say thanks to byteme, vpolineni, avalon65 and marvda 1 for their responses. It helps to have the owners of these chime in. And marvda 1 I haven't heard the paradigm s4, but I know the studio 40s are great speakers with an achillies heel. The crossovers, binding posts and internal wiring are on the modest side. If these were upgraded with quality parts, and not changing the design, the performance would be greatly inhanced, rivaling speakers costing much more.  And thats where I'm at, going that route or just getting the loreleis and bypassing all the hassle. Neil

[DeadFish]

If I can chip in a little bit, Neil...
I know I only own the 'little' Epiphony speakers, but the quality of the brand holds true.
I heard both the Lorellei, Epiphony, and Nightingale (very briefly, that) at the RMAF.  
From what I heard, they all share a common trait, and that seems to be one of organic musicality.
There is 'something' there.  Any of those speakers passed my first test of listening: 'Does it make me tap my toe?'
I know it sounds kind of primitive and naieve (sp), but it is a technique that gets my conscious mind out of the way, whereby my 'soul' makes a judgement call.
I listened intently to the Odyssey gear out there, and passed up the opportunity to bring the show Lorellei speakers home, primarilly because of transportation issues and not wanting to make that big of a decision without my wife's input.  I did however, bring home the Epiphony speakers though.  Once hooked up, wife absolutely loved the 'musicality' aspect right off the top and within a day asked me why I didn't bring the bigger (lorellei) speakers home.
Aw, they wouldn't fit the smallish room I currently use, but they would have been great fun trying to live with.
My listening room is the 1st of 3 interconnected rooms, and quite often, we listen from other rooms. Happilly now.  No issue with 'off axis' for us here.
Although undoubtedly, the Epiphony, due to its size is going to have some issue with the extremes of what they can reproduce.  I can easilly show this by unplugging them and reinserting my Altec 19s that sit right behind them, in.  
But we keep listening mostly to the Epiphony's.  The sense of musicality is what I blame for most of it.  We just like 'em! I can swap back and forth between my Bryston amp or my el84 tubed amp, and enjoy them both equally.  In fact, on the el84 amp was when I first heard the Epiphony's plain-ass disappear.  Quite satisfying!

I was talking with Vasu the other nite at a GAS gathering, and I think that he and I are on the same page on that musicality issue.
There really IS something there, even if you cannot put your finger on it.
I like to think that maybe it is like the sugar they put in McDonalds french fries..Makes you come back for more, and you don't know why.
Chime in here if you have a different opinion, Avalon.  I really thought I might be able to live with the Nightingale, but didn't spend enough time with them to judge.  I would be more likely to take a 'shot in the dark' at them than any other speaker brand I currently know.
To me, that is a complement to what Odyssey tries to bring to the party.

Although I was saving this for a brief review of the Ephiphony in the GAS circle, my final, definitive complement for the Odyssey speakers is that I consider myself a 'bottom-feeder' a lot in this hobby.  If I can find 'used' to suit my needs and keep it affordable, I do.

The Odyssey Epiphony speakers are the first ones I ever bought new.

But don't let this influence you...  hehehe

Great luck to you and your decision!

Best Regards,
DeadFish

[satfrat]

I'd like to add here that the Lorelei's stand alone when you try to compare the sonics of the Odyssey line. The Lorelei's are the only loudspeaker to actually have it's components come from Germany's Symphonic Line. All other Odyssey loudspeakers are sourced from Alain Courteau of Canada with entirely different components. As good as the Courteau line of loudspeakers sound, they are NOT a Lorelei with it's German made crossover. It's an apples/oranges comparison in crossovers & drivers. One must remember that the Lorelei is actually a $7000 Legato from Symphonic Lines. I'm not taking anything away from Alain's loudspeakers, I have 2 Nemisis center speakers in my system and they complement my Lorelei's just fine. I would really like to try the Epiphony bookshelf as a center tho just to see if thry could keep up with my Lorelei's when the volume gets cranked. My feeling is they would!  Regards, Robin

[kujocku]

Deadfish, thank you for post. I wanted to comment on style of judging speakers. I do not believe your method is naive or primitive. It is probably the best way of deciding to buy speakers or not, because you can look at a speakers response curve all day on an oscilloscope and be utterly impressed with its flat frequency response or perhaps its detail when you hear it in a dealers sound room.       But unless a speaker makes you (as you say) tap your toes, and actually how I feel, unless speaker makes you want to get up and dance, you mostly likely aren't having an emotional experience listening to your music, you'll probably tire of it and start looking for something else to buy. I would say that most of us dont have lots of spare change to throw around. So I am very carefully considering this decision. I just hope that if my wife & I choose the loreleis its dance time!  Any one else wish to comment on this thread, its chime time!

[satfrat]

Deadfish, thank you for post. I wanted to comment on style of judging speakers. I do not believe your method is naive or primitive. It is probably the best way of deciding to buy speakers or not, because you can look at a speakers response curve all day on an oscilloscope and be utterly impressed with its flat frequency response or perhaps its detail when you hear it in a dealers sound room.       But unless a speaker makes you (as you say) tap your toes, and actually how I feel, unless speaker makes you wa ...

                                                                                                               Our musical tases are very much alike, my main diet consists of smooth jazz and alternative rock with a side serving of classical. Be it the guiter of Acoustic Alchemy or Jeff Beck, the Lorelei's WILL move and involve you with their presentation. My Lorelei's are finished in medium oak whcih complements my system & living room. As nice as they look, I must agree with Vasu, the dark cherry that he has are awesome and really ARE what these loudspeakers are all about. Unfortunately, Vasu's Lorelei's would stick out like a goose at a barbershop (Aflac) in my room. . Just as a reference, I have 4 Lorelei's in a 11' x 17' room and they make me feel like I'm in an empty concert hall, the soundstage is that deep and wide. So much for "my room's too small" theory.  Chime'n or what,,,,     Regards, Robin

[DeadFish]

Hey Robin!
I didn't mean to dis the status of the Lorellei speakers at all
You do help make my point though, that no matter what 'hands' designed the speakers in their line, they got 'Something!'
And, there is no doubt that that 'stuff' comes in a fine degree and taste in the Lorelleis.  
When I was at the RMAF, I had pounded myself thru a lot of rooms in most of a day when I got sucked into the Odyssey room.
No, really!  Although I had listened to a lot of great stuff that day, walking in on the Lorelleis was an island of sanity and rythm, most like my biamped Vandies, when they were sounding good.  Not even they were in the same class as the Lorelleis, to be certain, but it was a musical 'place' I learned to nurture musical comfort from, and I was getting a mainline dose of it in that room. 'In The Beginning' from ELP 'Trilogy' album was playing and took my breath away, and returned it with a smile.  
 
It was a very good toke from those flagship speakers.

SO, really, I'm jealous of all youse guys.
You do give me hope to own some though, as my attic will be big enough, when I get stairs and heat up there.  
Once I get all that done, I think I'll need a musical reward.
Good luck Neil!
I hope you and your wife get to dance!

Best Regards,
DeadFish

[satfrat]

Hey Robin!
I didn't mean to dis the status of the Lorellei speakers at all
...

                                                                                                          That's cool Deadfish , that thought never accured to me tho. My intent was only to clarify the Odyssey offerings, that's all. Let's face it, Klaus would never have picked up the Nightengales, Circe, Epiphony, and Nemisis line if they didn't provide the same emotional involvement that the Lorelei's provide. So there's really no need to be jeolous either. It's all good. Regards, Robin

[Chris_B]

How do they do with the lower end?  Does the lower octaves of a piano sound authoritative?  I am really looking forward to hearing them in person.  I wish I could find someone near Wash DC with a pair.

[Marbles]

You do give me hope to own some though, as my attic will be big enough, when I get stairs and heat up there. icon_idea.gif ...

Concentrate on the stairs..I have a sister in St. Louis and heat has never been a problem, at least from about April through November     Now air conditioning I could understand  

[denvereric]

I actually bought the Lorelleis that Klaus had at the RMAF (see the post on the Lorelleis from Mike).  I am absolutely in love with these speakers.  Admittedly, I moving from a pair of Boston A400's that I dragged back up from the basement to replace the Paradigm Monitor 9's I stupidly purchased a few years back.  I don't know how these compare to the 40's by Paradigm.  I am sure they are not in the same ballpark.

Regarding the Lorelleis.  They are paired with a Stratos amp (that had some Klaus upgrades) and my friend's loaner Transcendent pre-amp.

The bass is incredible yet subtle - it exists when it should.  The separation is distinct but not from speaker to speaker, rather from where the musicians are on the stage.  Regarding axis of listening - sure, sitting in a strategically placed position improves the experience but these things fill our house with wonderful sounding music that is so clear.  One way to put it - I am listening to music all hours of the day and night without waking the kids or having my wife turn it down and I can feel it even at lower volumes.

I am not an audiophile but a huge fan of live music - mostly classic jazz but also some rock and classical.  With this system I feel hard pressed to drop $120 on concert tickets for my wife and I when I can just sit at home with a nice bottle of wine and hear Miles Davis or Etta James put on a private show for me.
That is my 2 cents.  - If anyone lives in Denver and would like to hear these, please email me and I will welcome you.
Eric

[satfrat]

I actually bought the Lorelleis that Klaus had at the RMAF (see the post on the Lorelleis from Mike).  I am absolutely in love with these speakers.  Admittedly, I moving from a pair of Boston A400's that I dragged back up from the basement to replace the Paradigm Monitor 9's I stupidly purchased a few years back.  I don't know how these compare to the 40's by Paradigm.  I am sure they are not in the same ballpark.

Regarding the Lorelleis.  They are paired with a Stratos amp (that had some Klaus upgrades) ...

Great first post Eric, welcome to AudioCircle! I could not have described the Lorelei experience better, you really nailed it. Thanks. Regards, Robin

[kujocku]

I'd like to thank the latest posters for taking the time to chime. Thanks Robin, Deadfish and Eric. These have given me confidence to order the Loreleis in the near future. My wife and I's 25th anniversary is next year and last night I asked what she wanted, she said she wasn't sure. she then asked what I wanted and I said the Loreleis. (Do they come in silver?)    Anyway if anyone else is prime to chime please take the time, and add a thought to this thread.  The final thought: What better way to say I love you after 25 years than the gift of sonic teutonic holographic lautsprechers.  Thanks all, Neil

[byteme]

I am not an audiophile but a huge fan of live music - mostly classic jazz but also some rock and classical. With this system I feel hard pressed to drop $120 on concert tickets for my wife and I when I can just sit at home with a nice bottle of wine and hear Miles Davis or Etta James put on a private show for me.

Interesting take, one I've actually thought too but never put down on paper.  In fact, a while ago we went to see Nora Jones at the Riverside in Milwaukee.  When I got home we put in the Nora DVD and while I'm not a big fan of multichannel music the sound was SO much more intimate, involving, and as you said, just like a private show for my wife and I.

For more information on my thoughts check this out - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=10455&highlight=

[vpolineni]

I'd like to thank the latest posters for taking the time to chime. Thanks Robin, Deadfish and Eric. These have given me confidence to order the Loreleis in the near future. My wife and I's 25th anniversary is next year and last night I asked what she wanted, she said she wasn't sure. she then asked what I wanted and I said the Loreleis. (Do they come in silver?)    Anyway if anyone else is prime to chime please take the time, and add a thought to this thread.  The final thought: What better way to  ...

neil,
 this is from the odyssey website:

We will soon offer lacquer finishes in silver, blue, red, and yellow as options only.

I guess you can get your loreleis in silver-that would look amazing!  I think the loreleis on the odyssey home page are in silver.  


I really thing you'll enjoy these speakers.  After having large, multi-driver speakers, I can't get over how well these disappear yet I honestly don't feel like I'm sacrificing any bass.  congrats.