[greghal]

Hey all

I bought the Ft-212's not really thinking about the 8awg max as a potential problem. Of course its not really a problem however my dilemma is - I'm using Kim Kable 8TC which is no more than 12-13awg and even when folded to double the copper mass for connection (not a recommendation) I'm still less than half filling the void. The opposing set screws get a good bite but I swear there is a hollow character to the sound when standing off axis to the speaker.

Problem is I don't like any remedy I've thought of:
1. hot solder connection
2. multiple sequential ferrule crimps

I bought the Rhodium plate so only the silver ferrule will work for me and the cost is ....(*&$%&^#)

Does anybody have a thought - anything... hmmmm silver bar stock...

thanks for any thoughts   

[FullRangeMan]

Welcome Greghal
I dont like connectors they are expensive for what they are and add alot more connections to the music signal ie loss of music signal, I use silver solder where possible.

I mean say I solder the bare speaker cable direct in the fullrange driver (no biding post).

You would solder or crimp whatever it doesnt matter, its one more point of electric transfer(signal loss).

[DaveC113]

The FT-212 bananas are among the very best...

The opposing screws are for strain relief, these are supposed to pinch the entire cable and only contact the outer insulation, NOT the bare wire. There is another set screw inside the banana, you have to unscrew the locking collar to get to it. There should be no problem clamping down on the wire using this screw.

The strain relief screws don't make electrical contact with the actual banana, at least they are not supposed to!

The bananas should come with instructions detailing how to use them.

I hope this helps... if not post pics of what you're doing.

[srb]

I think you should sell the Furutechs.  You're pouring absurd amounts of money on a solution where no problem exists.

Consider using the minimalist LS-4 BFA-type banana plugs from Swiss electrical contact company, Multi-Contact.  Solder them on and add a piece of heat shrink tubing.

 

This is what Nordost terminates their multi-thousand dollar cables with.  I use to buy the connectors from them before they stopped selling parts to DIY.  Thankfully Take Five Audio (CA) imports and sells the Multi-Contact bananas.  (I would bee a bit leery of the eBay Chinese imitators)

Oh BTW, they're $2.71/ea or ~ $22/set of 8

Steve

[DaveC113]

I think you should sell the Furutechs.  You're pouring absurd amounts of money on a solution where no problem exists.

Consider using the minimalist LS-4 BFA-type banana plugs from Swiss electrical contact company, Multi-Contact.  Solder them on and add a piece of heat shrink tubing.

 

This is what Nordost terminates their multi-thousand dollar cables with.  I use to buy the connectors from them before they stopped selling parts to DIY.  Thankfully Take Five Audio (CA) imports and sells the Multi-Contact bananas.  (I would bee a bit leery of the eBay Chinese imitators)

Oh BTW, they're $2.71/ea or ~ $22/set of 8

Steve

Brass vs copper? I'll take copper anyday. In the grand scheme of things spending $300 on extremely high quality connectors is a very good idea. The Furutech plugs are a great deal for what they are imo...

[rajacat]

Dave,

Actually, they're beryllium copper according to Take Five Audio. They look good to me. I think I'll order some.

"The Multi-Contact LS4 Banana Plug is a high-quality low-mass banana plugs made from Beryllium Copper that is rolled, hardened and gold-plated. This is a superior banana plug with a very low mass of only .56 grams each."

[FullRangeMan]

I think you should sell the Furutechs.  You're pouring absurd amounts of money on a solution where no problem exists.

Consider using the minimalist LS-4 BFA-type banana plugs from Swiss electrical contact company, Multi-Contact.  Solder them on and add a piece of heat shrink tubing.

 

This is what Nordost terminates their multi-thousand dollar cables with.  I use to buy the connectors from them before they stopped selling parts to DIY.  Thankfully Take Five Audio (CA) imports and sells the Multi-Contact bananas.  (I would bee a bit leery of the eBay Chinese imitators)

Oh BTW, they're $2.71/ea or ~ $22/set of 8

Steve

Nice solution, the best connector are no connector at all, but if its mandatory tobe used these low mass lugs are great--> low mass=low electrical loss and are cheap.

[DaveC113]

Dave,

Actually, they're beryllium copper according to Take Five Audio. They look good to me. I think I'll order some.

"The Multi-Contact LS4 Banana Plug is a high-quality low-mass banana plugs made from Beryllium Copper that is rolled, hardened and gold-plated. This is a superior banana plug with a very low mass of only .56 grams each."

Doesn't matter much, Be copper is better than brass but not nearly as good as pure copper. If a little bit of glare/grain doesn't bother you than copper alloy connectors are just fine, order away! It's a type of harshness that isn't easy to recognize until it's gone... pure copper is just smoother in comparison. I would say Furutech's copper alloy parts are far better than average but still are not as good as their pure copper parts, but If I were looking to save money I'd choose lower-end Furutech copper alloy connectors.

In any case Furutech FT-212 bananas are some of the best available at any price and are a bargain for what they are. You need to spend 3-4x the price on Furutech CF series or WBT's platinum plated silver parts to do better, and even then it's not a massive difference. The FT-212 are pure copper locking bananas with a really nice strain relief, an anti-resonant body, and high quality construction for around $300 for a set of eight. If you're going to complain about poor value in "audiophile" parts, these are some of the last parts you'd want to criticize.

But, something is telling me you and srb have never actually tried the FT-212 bananas and are just giving your opinion based on your current biases rather than actual experience. On the other hand, I've build dozens of speaker cables using Furutech FT212/211 connectors and I used to offer a very similar connector to the copper alloy connector that has been suggested. I don't offer the cheap bananas anymore, and this is based on experience building and listening to MANY speaker cables.

So yeah, people can believe whoever and whatever they want, no problem. My opinion is based on experience, others based on biases and what they think is a "good value" and misplaced outrage that Furutech would dare sell such expensive banana plugs when there are cheaper and far inferior options.

The fact that extremely expensive cables may come with downright cheap connectors does not speak well for the connector, instead maybe you should ask why the cable doesn't come with better connectors for the price? That logic is downright odd, and totally off base imo. You're assuming the parts were chosen because they are the best and not to meet a price point? Lol, that's almost NEVER the case... 

[Phil A]

Welcome to AC!

[Early B.]

Doesn't matter much, Be copper is better than brass but not nearly as good as pure copper. If a little bit of glare/grain doesn't bother you than copper alloy connectors are just fine, order away! It's a type of harshness that isn't easy to recognize until it's gone... pure copper is just smoother in comparison. I would say Furutech's copper alloy parts are far better than average but still are not as good as their pure copper parts, but If I were looking to save money I'd choose lower-end Furutech copper alloy connectors.

In any case Furutech FT-212 bananas are some of the best available at any price and are a bargain for what they are. You need to spend 3-4x the price on Furutech CF series or WBT's platinum plated silver parts to do better, and even then it's not a massive difference. The FT-212 are pure copper locking bananas with a really nice strain relief, an anti-resonant body, and high quality construction for around $300 for a set of eight. If you're going to complain about poor value in "audiophile" parts, these are some of the last parts you'd want to criticize.

But, something is telling me you and srb have never actually tried the FT-212 bananas and are just giving your opinion based on your current biases rather than actual experience. On the other hand, I've build dozens of speaker cables using Furutech FT212/211 connectors and I used to offer a very similar connector to the copper alloy connector that has been suggested. I don't offer the cheap bananas anymore, and this is based on experience building and listening to MANY speaker cables.

So yeah, people can believe whoever and whatever they want, no problem. My opinion is based on experience, others based on biases and what they think is a "good value" and misplaced outrage that Furutech would dare sell such expensive banana plugs when there are cheaper and far inferior options.

The fact that extremely expensive cables may come with downright cheap connectors does not speak well for the connector, instead maybe you should ask why the cable doesn't come with better connectors for the price? That logic is downright odd, and totally off base imo. You're assuming the parts were chosen because they are the best and not to meet a price point? Lol, that's almost NEVER the case... 

Dave -- I think you have a different perspective that most of us have difficulty wrapping our minds around. There are some "audiophile quality" products that actually work, but the price is considered outrageous for many of us. Some if us can't get beyond paying more than $300 for speaker cables, but you're talking about the same price just for a set of banana plugs. Geez! So when some of us see what we believe to be ultra high prices, we automatically label it as snake oil. It's a simple case of cognitive dissonance. Such a thought reduces the conflict in our minds that our "cheap" gear is just as good as the much higher priced products.
 

[rajacat]

Dave,

I was just saying that the Multi-Contact LS4 Banana Plugs are beryllium copper, not brass. I didn't say that they're better than Furutechs. I don't know because because I've used neither. I like the low mass minimalist approach though. Like the price too. Perhaps Furutech should develop their own low mass connectors using their special alloys.

[DaveC113]

Dave,

I was just saying that the Multi-Contact LS4 Banana Plugs are beryllium copper, not brass. I didn't say that they're better than Furutechs. I don't know because because I've used neither. I like the low mass minimalist approach though. Like the price too. Perhaps Furutech should develop their own low mass connectors using their special alloys.

The FT line are fairly low-mass... the body makes them look big but the actual conductor isn't very big. They also have some pretty nice bayonet-style plugs that are much more budget friendly and have set-screw connections, which I like. These aren't bad but they aren't in the same league as the FT-212s:

http://www.furutech.com/2013/01/27/1056/

[srb]

You're right, I haven't used the Furutech banana plugs but I thought there might be an alternative to the OP's dilemma described as "a hollow character to the sound".  What I don't like about the design of that particular plug is the setscrew to bare wire termination and I really much prefer a good crimp or crimp & solder.

I did come across some interesting plugs that I've not tried yet, the Furez TST-W/WP series tensioned split tube banana plugs. Unlike the LS4 which does use a hardened copper alloy to achieve spring tension, the Furez plugs are soft copper with an elastomeric insert that provides tension, according to the manufacturer, nearly rivaling locking banana plugs.

However, beyond the tension, the split tube design allows the plug to conform to the inner surface of the binding post for its entire length.  The W series requires heat shrink to cover the termination and the WP series has a small diameter profile aluminum shell.

They are available in bare copper or silver-plated copper and range from ~ $19/pair to $34/pair.

 

Steve

[DaveC113]

You're right, I haven't used the Furutech banana plugs but I thought there might be an alternative to the OP's dilemma described as "a hollow character to the sound".  What I don't like about the design of that particular plug is the setscrew to bare wire termination and I really much prefer a good crimp or crimp & solder.

I did come across some interesting plugs that I've not tried yet, the Furez TST-W/WP series tensioned split tube banana plugs. Unlike the LS4 which does use a hardened copper alloy to achieve spring tension, the Furez plugs are soft copper with an elastomeric insert that provides tension, according to the manufacturer, nearly rivaling locking banana plugs.

However, beyond the tension, the split tube design allows the plug to conform to the inner surface of the binding post for its entire length.  The W series requires heat shrink to cover the termination and the WP series has a small diameter profile aluminum shell.

They are available in bare copper or silver-plated copper and range from ~ $19/pair to $34/pair.

 

Steve

Hollow character to the sound is a result of using the strain relief bolts for the conductor instead of the set screw, and the strain relief isn't directly touching the actual spade so it's a wonder he's getting any sound at all! It's just by chance the conductor is actually hitting the spade, and it's certainly not securely attached to the actual conducting part of the spade assembly.

As far as connection preference set screws are the best for sound quality, better than solder. Crimp depends on the equipment but can be excellent. A good crimp does not require any solder at all. Good crimps are rarely accomplished by DIYers.

The Furez are a clever design, and maybe a good alternative... except for the bare copper or silver plate, both of which will corrode.... but really if you want a budget connector just go with spades. Furutech spades made of thick UPOCC copper with great quality gold plating and set-screws (FP-201) are $70 for a set of 4. Less robust pure copper / gold plated spades from DH Labs are only a few bucks apiece... IMO this is a better alternative to trying to save money with a more compromised design like bananas anyways. If you really want the minuscule extra convenience of bananas or don't have room for spades than I do recommend spending the money on good quality locking bananas like the FT-212... otherwise I'd recommend spades. Just don't take a wrench to your binding posts and put a dent in the spade, lol...     

[srb]

Less robust pure copper / gold plated spades from DH Labs are only a few bucks apiece... IMO this is a better alternative to trying to save money with a more compromised design like bananas anyways.

Standard bananas maybe, but a BFA-type banana plug has more mm² contact area than a spade connector.  Not a subjective opinion but a mechanical fact.

Steve

[DaveC113]

Standard bananas maybe, but a BFA-type banana plug has more mm² contact area than a spade connector.  Not a subjective opinion but a mechanical fact.

Steve

The quality of the contact area matters a lot too, it's not just about surface area.

What really matters is what sounds best and that's a spade or a pure copper locking banana plug with set-screw terminations. Either are far better than bare wire too...