[undertow]

Who on the planet "no pun intended" can seriously consider buying from these guys? Not only are the prices way beyond outrageous, but with the fact we all know you can buy 10 copies, and find at least one good one at a point, or just go digital in many cases why is this still a viable business?

http://www.better-records.com/product.aspx?pf_id=who__quadr_1604

Almost everything on here for basic popular pressings cost between $150, to $550.00? I mean is there this many people out there with more money than brains? Even on this audio board alone considering power cables for $500 to $5000 can get a little crazy in most peoples eyes, and that a DAC costing $500 to $5000 is a tough sell, but this seriously?

I mean I get the free market conundrum here, but this is just silly, and if people are truly that desperate to find a decent copy on some of these titles pulling the trigger on their credit card for this non-sense they seriously have some mental issues, or really don't know what they are doing to make their system sound good, or find good copies in the first place sorry. Are they just trying to do like the firearm industry with ammo, and create some false shortage pushing up demand so everybody hordes decent pressings? Look I am all for 50 to 150 dollar rare, excellent pressings, but this has gone way beyond what is realistic.

By the way I have seen this site many times over the last 15 years since its inception, but wow it has gone way beyond out of whack on pricing now I just don't see who possibly supports it. I will say this it makes those $3000.00 ultrasonic cleaners look like a value now fixing a lot of your collection vs. buying 20 records from these guys costing you $5000 to $10,000 bucks!

Sorry for the rant, but in this case it had to be done... I found 3 near mint copies at my local flea market that have reference sound quality once cleaned, zero noise, for 10 bucks! Perfect output, perfect balance, no surface noise, excellent dynamics. I am not saying this is always possible, but there is absolutely no justification to these claims at absolute ridiculous costs.

[GentleBender]

But where else can I get a copy of The Police Synchronicity for $399.99 with free shipping no less? I guess if you have so much money and would rather pay others money for the "best" copy. I'll stick to discogs and others for my vinyl.

As much as I love Pearl Jam I still haven't paid the $150-300 for a few of their albums I would love to have. I'm holding out for a reissue as they did the first three albums. Cheap guy...

[undertow]

The Police Great example... Because I know right now I can go buy 5 copies of Synchronicity and guarantee 3 or 4 will be excellent sound! Its already a great pressing whether you like the music or not. And guess what I will pay 2.99 for them. So I am not interested in the 396.00 dollar premium tacked on to give me a 30 day money back because I "Might" get one extra annoying pop.

[undertow]

Gentle...

I have an Original Pearl Jam TEN. Which is their best pressing. But it was a 90's press which automatically defaults it into "Mediocre" at best along with most bands of the era due to record pressing at that point being an afterthought for the mainstream. I have tried that new garbage double they put out, it's horrific even worse sound. Zero dynamics, no life.

I am going to be completely honest with you. Ten is okay, but its not what I consider a great recording in this case. The original I have is dead quiet, and sounds good, but its a pretty weak overall from my standards on a good rock album pressing. Don't get me wrong I LOVE the music, but all their pressings are disappointing in general original or re-releases don't waste your time or money. I have dumped most of them including all my 90's pressings, there are some gems out there, but its 1 out of 10 if your lucky depending on the band of the time.

THE best version of TEN that just destroys the Vinyl and CD's is right now on sale HDTracks Download for about 17 bucks. 24 bit FLAC. It is ridiculous good trust me. Total air, big 3d sound, and real rock n' roll power that you don't need to turn your system up to 3' oclock on the dial...  all the rest sound like the cardboard would taste that they come in trust me.

If your seriously interested in the TEN original I know they go for 80 to 120 bucks on ebay. I will ship to you for $45 if you really want it. It has a small mark on track one, but its superficial with zero effect to the sound.

[Bill Baker]

Interesting topic. I dont think there is any artist I like enough to pay over $150 for their album. As mentioned, most of these albums can be had pretty cheep. You can buy several copies and still not be anywhere near $300-$900.
That being said, there are always consumers out there that will pay that extra cost to get a premium copy of an album they really want or have been looking for.
I didnt look through the whole site but I didnt really see any truly rare albums that would help justify the cost.

On a final note. I have never heard any of White Hot Stampers vinyl.

[undertow]

Interesting topic. I dont think there is any artist I like enough to pay over $150 for their album. As mentioned, most of these albums can be had pretty cheep. You can buy several copies and still not be anywhere near $300-$900.
That being said, there are always consumers out there that will pay that extra cost to get a premium copy of an album they really want or have been looking for.
I didnt look through the whole site but I didnt really see any truly rare albums that would help justify the cost.

On a final note. I have never heard any of White Hot Stampers vinyl.

Agreed, but it sorta proves the point. If the nut jobs here like us won't even support this kinda random music quest of insanity who is?

I mean these record companies should be coming back from the dead charging this guy for all the presses they went bankrupt with making the actual product that he is charging more for than they every could dream of even today selling them brand new!

Then again people are still paying 3.50 to 5 bucks for a cup of coffee I can make as good for 30 cents so obviously the economy is as good as they say it is 

[vinyl_guy]

I have never bought from them and probably won't in the future, but I have paid low three figures for some pressings of certain albums, e.g., a sealed Classic Records reissue of Led Zeppelin IV, or some sealed early MoFi reissues or original Parlophone Mono original pressings of any Beatles album. It all depends on how important a good clean pressing of a certain album is to you and how rare that pressing is. Also, are you a collector/investor or do you just want a good, clean copy of a favorite record? If one is a collector/investor, then they are probably more likely to be a customer of Better Records. And for most vinyl collectors or people who primarily listen to vinyl, digital is never an option. Just because you find it insane or silly does not mean it is insane or silly for someone else. Obviously, there are enough buyers to support his business. To each their own and YMMV.

After hearing DACs in the $5,000 to $10,000 range at RMAF, I can assure you there is a huge difference in the performance of the DACs I listened to compared to $500 to $2,500 DACs. Not a tough sell at all if digital is what floats your boat and you have the economic means.

The Audio Desk Ultrasonic cleaner is one of the best investments I have made. It cleans far better than the VPI-17 I used to own and the Loricraft I still own and it is so simple and easy to use. Just press a button and walk away. No standing over the cleaning machine until the record is clean. My vinyl collection exceeds 3,000 records and dates to 1959. There is no way I would have cleaned all of them if it wasn't for the Audio Desk.

[undertow]

vinyl_lady

Understood, but you almost completely missed the point. We are talking about the fact these guys are selling standard run of the mill recordings. Which by the way can in fact be far better than Mofi or Classic records releases no question about that. But yes I have also paid 80 to 150 for Mofi, or Classic's in the past. We are talking these guys have 5 dollar pressings in the multi hundred dollar ranges.

As for my comments above I simply was illustrating I totally get "10,000 dollar DACs" and how there is a market, I am in fact one of them, however these are durable components which will be universally used in your system with EVERY recording for a long term investment not 20 minuets of music per side. But plastic discs which might get used by most audiophiles 30 minuets of play every 2 years... Sorry not buying the justification that is the real point to this thread specifically.

And I also have thousands invested in Ultrasonic cleaning equipment so I am on your side 

[vinyl_guy]

I don't think I missed the point at all. There are folks who are willing to pay big bucks for the best pressing of a record that you or I can buy, in near mint shape, on Discogs for a lot less. The one we buy might not be a first stamper, first mother, first pressing, but we are satisfied that we have a good sounding pressing. What may seem like insanity to you or me, is not to someone else. And that's OK because it is their money they are spending, not mine or yours. Just because you or I wouldn't do it doesn't mean it is wrong.

[S Clark]

I buy a lot of RCA shaded dog or maroon Victrola classical lp's and will pay extra for a 1s to 2s stamper... but not 3x more.  For most pressings, the variation is rather slight compared to overal vinyl condition.  Having said that, it can be noticeable. 

[*Scotty*]

Before I spent a dime of my money, I would want many NON-SHILL, unbiased reviews, substantiating their claims regarding the quality of their pressings.
Scotty

[toddc2]

I have purchased quite a few Hot Stampers. They all sound very good, some shockingly so. i wish I could say that for some of the triple digit crap I've picked up on Discogs and the bay. There is something to be said for a sure thing.

Having said that, Tom has been steadily increasing his prices to ridiculous levels, especially the White Hot Stampers that seem more common than lesser grades on his site. Makes me wonder how rare or special they really are...

Todd

[smctigue]

I get Tom's weekly email blast. The popular titles get snatched up very quickly regardless of price. Like it or not, this model works for him, it has for close to 20 years.

[Mike B.]

I will stick with the used vinyl market in my town. I have two excellent outlets and prices are usually $3-$6 for good looking used.

[orthobiz]

I have tried to get quiet copies of several records with disappointing results, Days of Future Passed, Tumbleweed Connection come to mind. I have lucked into a wonderful RL pressing LZ II and can attest to what a difference a quality disc can make.

I see that you are paying for Better Records doing all the legwork for you, each record is play graded. That involves a human cleaning it and listening through both sides. Let alone having to throw out several that didn't make the grade.

So with people spending big money on things they love, I don't begrudge anybody buying one of Tom's high priced records. I have never done it and don't plan on it, I just can't justify the money so I will continue to search for my own hot stampers!

Paul

[Mr.Sneis]

Even if I had more disposable income I doubt I would buy from him, however he has been operating for decades now with this kind of a model.  Who knows if he truly makes any money on it but I think it would make sense for some buyers to not have to deal with "the hunt" which can be both time consuming and often disappointing.  Even buying brand new vinyl sometimes you are forced to use Amazon's lenient return policy to get a copy that is not warped/scratched/non-fill.  He sure does get a lot of positive and negative press across many of the audio sites I frequent however.

[Miney]

Succumbed once  ....after 8 record store fails for a good original Tull TAAB..

 Did not invest at the nuclear hot end of Tom's scale... bottom-line, ended up with  a really nice disc.

[e.man]

I will stick with the used vinyl market in my town. I have two excellent outlets and prices are usually $3-$6 for good looking used.

Lucky man.  No shops near me.

[e.man]

Succumbed once  ....after 8 record store fails for a good original Tull TAAB..

 Did not invest at the nuclear hot end of Tom's scale... bottom-line, ended up with  a really nice disc.

...and this is the upshot of I not having a local shop.  Most online shopping is a sh!tshoot for big black frisbees to go out the front door.
Must admit to never even seriously looking at the sight for purchase.  It's all about cash flow here.  Half a dozen frisbees  is le$$ per a shot.
Postage from the US to AU has got to silly amounts as well.  Looking at $30AU for most but the AU press is often a lesser thing cos they were sent the 3rd gentapes to work with .
What to do...?
Could start art, but then what to do with all the bloody art after....?

[Gzerro]

A lot of people in this hobby don't really care about $500. It just isn't a lot of money for them. Others just want to splurge to get a really good pressing of one or two of their favorite records.

I see this like any other high end service business. Assuming they do what they say, they are actually sorting through multiple pressings, listening to the records, taking notes, and assigning a price based on the results. This takes a lot of time for each record they are selling.

I can understand why someone would pay. On a few occasions I have purchased 3-4 copies of a record, just to get a single decent copy. It's just a lot of time and hassle, and very frustrating. Purchasing records without a quality local shop is a major pain in the neck.

Nobody is forcing anyone to pay the high prices, and they offer a money back guarantee.

Seems like a legit and honest  business model to me.