[tantus]

Every line source design that I've ever listened to sounds way bigger than life.  This may have a pleasing effect on large orchestral music, but not with most material I listen to.  Solo instrumental recordings sound unnaturally huge and diffused.

I understand that line sources have some technical advantages on paper which allow them to reduce listening room effects on the sound.  However, in my opinion, any advantages gained are severely outweighed by the disadvantages I hear.

Does anyone have additional reasons why line source speakers image so poorly?

[Tyson]

Line sources and bipoles tend to go hand in hand.  I would posit that bipolar radiation is more responsible for that type of imaging than the use of the line source construction.

[NealH]

Line source speakers are often open baffle which makes them very room and placement sensitive due to their rear wave interaction.  Many find that the open baffle construction, with its associated boxless effects, or lack of effects associated with a box, produce a more realistic and immediate soundstage that is addicting.  Pin point imaging is probably more difficult to achieve in a line source open baffle speaker due to the rear wave reflections interacting with the front wave.  But, when set up properly in a room of adequate volume, imaging from a line source, whether open baffle or not, offers a most complete sonic picture of the live event, imaging et all.

[tantus]

Line source speakers are often open baffle

I disagree with this statement from a technical sense.  To clarify, my query had to do with line source designs, not open-baffle designs.  In fact, the few open baffle line-source speakers that I've heard (Magneplanar, Martin Logan, Acoustat) all image quite well.  These types of speakers are known as dipole planar designs.

Some examples of line-source speakers that I'm referring to are the Infinity IRS, Pipedream, VMPS, Linus, etc.

[Pez]

VMPS images well.  Perhaps you heard a less than great setup.  Perhaps you were not in the sweetspot.  They have a small sweet spot and that could easily be misconstrued as a poor image/soundstage. Also I have noticed that if the VMPS speakers are even slightly misangled in regards to the other speaker then the image goes straight to hell.

For what it's worth I have heard the pipe dreams and they also had a good image and soundstage, but small sweet spot.  I thought their sound left a lot to be desired at the price, but what cost no object speaker doesn't   Again setup with line sources is crucial and so is the listening seat.

[azryan]

IMO, your question is loaded and too broad.

It's like me asking why all planars sound better than cones/domes.

There are far too many speaker to lump one style into one group of poor imaging designs.

You said later...
"Some examples of line-source speakers that I'm referring to are the Infinity IRS, Pipedream, VMPS, Linus, etc."

You don't seem to know what a line source is. VMPS aren't.

Plus the fact that tons of VMPS owners will tell you they DO image very well.

Are those Inf. IRS line source either? I didn't think so, but they're so old either way, does this out-of-production speaker really matter? Not like you can buy a new pair.

While I don't exactly think Tyson's statment -"Line sources and bipoles tend to go hand in hand." is true..., I think it'd be more accurate to say that some line source designs are bipole. But I'm thinking more are dipole and from what I've seen most are monopole.

The point being... just a bi/di/monopole diff. in the design with greatly effect imaging on top of the driver's used, cabinet, and x-overs.

IMO, monopole is the best for sharp imaging, and I find bi/dipoles to be blurrier and more airy/diffuse sound... but that's in general.

In the "real world" certain bi/dipoles w/ a lot of space around 'em can image great (Logan's w/ a LOT of air around 'em), and a monopole throwing a hard refelction off the side walls can end up imaging poorly.

Far too many speakers and factors to just say "line sources image poorly".

There's an effect also of the outter drivers being father away from your ears causing a delay to the sound. That can make a blurry image and I think cause some combing effects too, but that's a little beyond me? I dunno?

Some line sources are short enough that this effect is fairly minimized, some are VERY tall (like 8'!) but are designed for the outter drivers to be compensated for that distance effect -at least somewhat.

My speakers are Newform Research and the 45" ribbon is a line source, but the dual ScanSpeak woofer cabinet is not.
I find the ribbons to be the best imaging drivers I've ever heard, and the woofers are pretty good, but not in the same league.

I suspect GR's Alpha line array has great imaging, going by the words of several people who've heard it, and certainly very diff. from the speakers you said imaged poorly.

[azryan]

Looked up the Infinity IRS.
I guess the top of the line model or models? were line sources, but there are other models in the IRS line that weren't -I've personally heard one of them and though they were horrible in damn near everyway incl. imaging.

Those used dual towers, and the tower for the planar line looks like it's about 3' wide but a curved plane.

There are many line designs that use a very wide intentionally whether to augment bass output of to devide a dipole output -it depends on the design.

There are certainly lots of lines that try to have as small a baffle face as possible.

No point really... just 'stuff' trying to say you can't judge them all 'cuz they're all so different.
Plus as has been said... set up can make or break pretty much any speaker line or other.

[JohnR]

Interesting thread! My line sources image very well  





One could argue these are not really line sources as they are only 32" long. Also, the crossover to the ribbons is 1600 Hz, so overall it's more like azyan's Newforms than a "true" line source. Except that it's all dipole as well.