Hawthorne Sterling Silver Iris Coaxial

FullRangeMan · « **on:** 18 Mar 2016, 09:34 pm »

Hawthorne Sterling Silver Iris 15'' coaxial + xover for $800
Too good to true? Someone already listen this OB driver?

http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/catalogs/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=4

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/1108/hawthorne_audio_sterling.htm

srb · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Mar 2016, 09:52 pm »

It's a coaxial driver, meaning it has a TWEETER and a CROSSOVER! Aaaaaaargh! It looks like a target. I would shoot it.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Mar 2016, 10:09 pm »

Well now you got me.

srb · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Mar 2016, 10:16 pm »

Actually, I'm not sure what the major differences are between this and the regular Silver Iris. Is it a different tweeter? Is the crossover on the Silver Iris internal, and this is an external crossover with a wood plate on top of the coil?

I wish manufacturers would routinely have comparison charts to explain differences in the products. The Sterling Silver Iris is 3.4X more expensive than the Silver Iris.

Steve

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Mar 2016, 10:27 pm »

At a glance his site show the no xover version have steel frame and QTS=0.9.
The $800 set have alu frame and QTS=0.7

JLM · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Mar 2016, 11:14 pm »

Years ago I visited the original Hawthorne crossover designer. He had Silver Iris and Sterling Silver Iris speakers. The Sterling version added a great deal more detail. Since then I haven't kept up with all the Hawthorne developments.

flavo · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 Mar 2016, 02:45 am »

I'm currently listening to my silver iris and alpha 15 combo.
The silver iris and sterling look pretty similar in terms of x-over design. But the everything is different really. The coaxial is different, the tweeter is different and the x-over is different. In all regards, higher cost components are used. The sterling silvers do offer more detail from what I have read. But with that I believe comes making your not so great sounding music sound worse. I'm really enjoying my speaker set up as is right now. I'd like to tweak it and get more out of certain areas but am in no rush.
Being fed through multiple tubes and listening to Jeff Buckley right now is pretty haunting.
For the price I'm not sure you could do better. Unless of course you hate x-overs and tweeters.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 Mar 2016, 01:58 pm »

Thanks guys for your detailed first hand impressions, I appreciated.

rabbit · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 Mar 2016, 06:36 pm »

i had the original PSI, to make a long story short they were awful, even with a superior active XO. as a coaxial the crossover is way to high, and the woofer dont even handle midrange well imo. (sterling woofers have the same specs) these crossovers wont work regardless of how much they pay for isolated capacitors and coils.

at $1600 there are much better speakers.
http://gainphile.blogspot.no/
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/4-way-speaker-kits/lx521-linkwitz-lab-open-baffle-4-way-kit/
yes linkwitz and such require some amount of electronics because dipole needs it, but you get a speaker for life. also notice the relationship between size and frequency. very important for a good polar response!

when any designer put forth an unusually simple 2way OB design and claim they are high-end and work well with a simple passive crossover and no waveguide i pause and ask myself if they know what they are doing.. iv tried a few of these and the same problems persist. some of them get top notch review scores and i have no clue why, as they sounded like crap compared to a proper design. for some reason audiophiles see a mystery quality in "less is more" components, no data or measurements. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_trick) all these improper designs atleast taught me to respect measurements again.

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Mar 2016, 10:37 pm »

I don't doubt what you have to say about the sound.....however, the Linkwitz speakers are not $1600....you have to buy the xover, many, many amps, make the baffles and assemble yourself and then there is all the cabling.

Hawthorne is making some two way open baffle speakers using a Beyma AMT and an 8 inch woof (the pair is 98db sensitive)....to be used with subs. These have outshone the older Hawthorne coax's in every way from what I have read.....these two ways ($2500 with passive xover) are suppose to be killer. There is a review of one on the critics circle. Check it out.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138878.0

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #10 on:** 20 Mar 2016, 06:49 am »

Quote from: rabbit on 19 Mar 2016, 06:36 pm

at $1600 there are much better speakers.
http://gainphile.blogspot.no/

If the sound in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87L5r8FKt3U&feature=youtu.be
is in any way representative of the R16 dipole speaker, I'm not attracted. I find the sound is clangorous, as if there is a pretty strong peak around 1 Khz. Until I heard this sound, I was attracted in principle to the design. I'm hoping it was a nasty microphone—but most camcorder mics sound better than that, in my experience.

flavo · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Mar 2016, 06:53 pm »

Quote from: rabbit on 19 Mar 2016, 06:36 pm

i had the original PSI, to make a long story short they were awful, even with a superior active XO. as a coaxial the crossover is way to high, and the woofer dont even handle midrange well imo. (sterling woofers have the same specs) these crossovers wont work regardless of how much they pay for isolated capacitors and coils.

Everything that comes out of your fingers on here is some sort of verbal vomit with the intention to show your superiority and hate for everything.
11 posts of constant bitching.
I'm guessing the well regarded Spatial speakers are garbage as well?
So you don't like the stuff, That's fine, move on. Plenty of folks do.
Most OB arrangements don't measure well but for some reason folks still seem to love them.

Maybe take up meditation as a second hobby. I know it has helped me and my superiority complex.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Mar 2016, 05:39 pm »

There are a few instances when member rabbit has offered useful information, so categorizing all posts as negative is a bit much.

I would say that many of his posts do offer criticism of Hawthorne, and I would prefer to avoid that around here. But I also respect that central to his theme is that he tried them, and did not like them. That is commendable, and what makes this site a great place. Lots of opinions.

I would ask that all maintain an even tone, and deliver the core of your messages without excessive negativity.

Not a problem at all to say that something is not your cup of tea. Happy to hear it to inspire conversation, let's just keep it nice. No reason not to.

owenmd · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 Mar 2016, 10:46 pm »

Hello guys....

I haven't posted much on AC for a long time.... but this thread caught my eye. Over 35 years of meddling with this stuff and many speakers, both home made and bought designs.... mostly box speakers, and all below $5k.

I had been looking at open baffle with curiosity a few years ago and came across the Hawthorne's. Figured I could wip up some temporary baffles from MDF and see how I liked them. I ordered the SSI's and gave them a whirl. First impression.... needed bass reinforcement.... they also sounded terrible when brand new and took a hundred hours or so to sound right. Thinking about bass, I ordered some Augie's.... two initially, but that wasn't enough for me, so now I have trio's. Initially powered by Rythmik's, but now powered by a Crown.

After they were burned in, the SSI's sounded good, but lacked detail and sparkle from what I was used to.... so I changed the tweeter resistor out to a lower value and put a better pair of binding posts in.... transformed them...! better umbilical's are also recommended. The crossover components are nice quality.

The end result is that I haven't changed my speakers now in about six years or so.... very unlike me. I still have no intention of changing out my speakers. They are not the most detailed or accurate speakers you will ever hear, BUT.... I never give them a thought, I simply enjoy the music and now I only listen to music and not speakers. I hear other capable speakers elsewhere from time to time and certainly notice some things about them that they do better than the SSI's.... BUT, they don't make my foot tap and I simply don't enjoy the music like I do with the Hawthornes.... anyway, this is why I still have them. They work brilliantly with low powered tubes.

Just thought someone may be interested in my experience.

Cheers,
Mark

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 Mar 2016, 11:07 am »

Glad see your return to posting Mark.
Certainly you aware the stunning low cost OB woofer Eminence Alpha 15A used only w/an 4.7mH inductor being know by a very musical sound.
http://www.parts-express.com/eminence-alpha-15a-15-driver--290-407

flavo · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 Mar 2016, 04:22 pm »

I'm just repeating what I have read, but the Augie is supposed to be significantly better. I don't know if the average audio enthusiast can hear the difference. I'd love to hear the 2 side by side and be shown. But unless I fork over the $ it most likely won't happen.
FRMan, this is Darrel's side of the conversation if you're curious.

http://www.hawthorneaudio.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=403

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Mar 2016, 05:43 pm »

Oh thanks, I will read the link.

jdaun · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Jun 2016, 09:36 pm »

Sorry to bump this old thread ...

owenmd mentioned he "changed the tweeter resistor out to a lower value" on his Hawthorne SSI's.

I'd like to make a similar change to my Hawthorne SSI duets for a little more high-end sparkle, and I'm curious what resistor value owenmd used.

Thanks!

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Jun 2016, 04:03 am »

What is the current resistor value?

rabbit · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 Jul 2016, 10:02 pm »

as far as i remember the sterling has a series resistor, no paralell. perhaps 16ohm or so, that makes the impedance on the tweeters nominal 24ohm (!). this is not how it is done, virtually all speakers have an l-pad with series and paralell. it will change the response and effekt the whole system. also the woofer is full range connected.

sorry to say im not impressed by what they have accomplished in over 10years. it see no goal at all, only subjective evaluation. no normal theory and not a single measurement, there is a third party measurment on diyaudio though:
http://cdn.avsforum.com/6/61/61c0569a_vbattach171770.jpeg
if you dont measure you dont know.

budget speakers are designed much better than any hawthorne imo. a minidsp 2x4 for cheap could do a LOT of improvements, but they are concerned that the digital stuff will result in poor sound, so they have never tried one.
by nature a 15" needs a crossover around 1k or less and a waveguide approx the same size as the woofer. 900hz wavelenght = 15"
the radian tweeter would be in the ballpark with a correct waveguide and crossover, but in the coax its not even close.
i did build the s15 gainphile speakers earlier and they beat the 15 PSI by a huge margin. i also found most of his other speakers properly done for the most part. his tiny zaph kit looks impressive for the price of the parts, a bit heavy on the EQ down low but thats a relativlity easy fix.
for OB 2way is not the way to go imo. unfortunately there are lots of brands still doing it.