Anyone heard the new Philharmonitor?

bbslo · « **on:** 14 Mar 2016, 04:49 am »

I haven't seen any kind of review of the new (came out around Dec. 2015 I think) Philharmonitors that sell for $1150. Has anyone heard these and want to offer a review?

JLM · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Mar 2016, 10:26 am »

charmerci · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Mar 2016, 08:37 pm »

Post 5388 - follow up next page #5401, then next page #5435

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1348949-philharmonic-audio-dennis-murphy-180.html

JLM · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Mar 2016, 01:35 pm »

Thanks!

Unfortunately all those comments are from the same unknown source comparing them to Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 (which I only know indirectly from having owned Ascend Acoustics CBM-170s). And I've never found the 170's to be "tilted up".

A bit disturbing that the Philharmonitors are even less efficient than the rather power hungry Sierra-1. (I find high efficiency speakers to be more dynamic.)

charmerci · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Mar 2016, 03:49 pm »

Yeah - 85db/watt

http://philharmonicaudio.com/New%20Philharmonitor.html

Dennis said he wanted to lower the bass extension in a trade off for efficiency.

JLM · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 Mar 2016, 05:26 pm »

Yes, a number of small speakers now are available that offer full bass, but you can't cheat the laws of physics. OTOH the drivers used are also a limiting factor and many high quality mid/woofers are rather low efficiency.

Wish manufacturers would offer deeper bass/lower efficiency and less bass/higher efficiency variations of the same speaker for use in small/large rooms or with/without subwoofers.

bbslo · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 Mar 2016, 03:14 am »

Okay thanks for the input. I'll just wait for some more reviews to roll in.

That's an interesting idea, JLM. Would allow folks who like the sound of a particular manufacturer to chose the sound they want, but have flexibility around the efficiency/bass trade-off.

JLM · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 Mar 2016, 11:06 am »

Upon reflection a couple of manufacturers do offer sealed vs. ported versions of the same speaker. Maybe that's as close as we're gonna get.

sonicxtc · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 Mar 2016, 12:40 pm »

Quote

(I find high efficiency speakers to be more dynamic.)

+1
That's been my experience. There MAY be exceptions like Fritz (possibly due to a simplified crossover), but in general highly efficient speakers do sound more dynamic and lifelike.

Okay, I didn't mean to derail the topic, but JLM's comment caught my attention.

charmerci · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 Mar 2016, 04:30 pm »

Dennis does offer a sealed version - though whether it's that more efficient you'd have to write to him.

charmerci · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 Mar 2016, 06:46 pm »

Quote from: bbslo on 16 Mar 2016, 03:14 am

Okay thanks for the input. I'll just wait for some more reviews to roll in.

I have them and the reason that I don't "review" them is very complicated. Dennis is an excellent speaker designer and the RAAL tweeters are amazing. But my situation is that I am very sensitive to high frequency sound. The RAAL's reveal everything. So in my experience, if you love classical music or only listen to the best-sounding recordings or you don't turn them up too loud unless you have some of the best equipment, they are excellent from top to bottom.

I primarily listen to older R&R and love to crank them up, plus my income is quite limited so I'm still working on the system. I recently purchased some used Grover Huffman IC cables which seems to have helped tamed some of the high end harshness at loud volumes that I experienced - however, I now have them located in my office in which I can't crank them up to be absolutely positive. I'd love to spend a whole lot more money on my system but I can't.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139706.0

JLM · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Mar 2016, 08:07 pm »

Doubt if sealed vs. ported will be more efficient, just different bass roll off characteristics.

Thanks charmerci for the link (I knew I'd read a review somewhere). Funny thing, a few weeks ago I started a thread wondering if my DAC was too good. Same kind of thing but opposite, good gear making old recordings sound worse. In my case it seems like most around here would give up on poorer recordings. In your case it seems that you have extra sensitivity to high frequencies and frankly a soft dome (like the Sierra) might be a better solution.

It does seem that modern taste has been going towards treble emphasis with a more spritely presentation.

Early B. · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Mar 2016, 08:35 pm »

Quote from: charmerci on 16 Mar 2016, 06:46 pm

But my situation is that I am very sensitive to high frequency sound.... I recently purchased some used Grover Huffman IC cables which seems to have helped tamed some of the high end harshness at loud volumes that I experienced -

I used to think that my ears were sensitive to high frequency sound, as well, but eventually realized that my ears are sensitive to poor sound which is almost always associated with harsh highs. If the highs are excessive, don't blame your ears. There's an issue with the quality of the components and/or cables. As you continue to upgrade, the harshness will slowly disappear.

Kenneth Patchen · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Mar 2016, 10:01 pm »

I'd be interested in hearing an A/B comparison of the Philharmonitors and Rick Craig's new Compatto, which btw I'm listening to and enjoying right now. I'm guessing the Philharmonitors have a similar sound. The Compattos are sealed and slightly less efficient than the Phils at 82db.

http://www.selahaudio.com/lineup/#/compatto/

There's a very nice Noaudiophile review on the Selah site, as well as a helpful Compatto thread. To my ears they sound very much like a smaller version of the Tempestas, which I also have in the same room as the Compattos. And there have been several times when I've been fooled while walking back into the room thinking the Tempestas were playing and to find it was the smaller Compattos putting out all that lovely sound. Amazing!

Below, comments and performance graphs by Rick:

"As promised, some performance graphs. Please note the on/off-axis curves are ungated in order to show the full in-room response below 200hz so there is more ripple in the curve above 200hz than normal. The 20-200hz bass curve is nearfield - no room gain!

srb · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Mar 2016, 10:34 pm »

Quote from: Kenneth Patchen on 16 Mar 2016, 10:01 pm

I'd be interested in hearing an A/B comparison of the Philharmonitors and Rick Craig's new Compatto, which btw I'm listening to and enjoying right now. I'm guessing the Philharmonitors have a similar sound.

I don't know much about, nor have I listened to, the Dayton midwoofer, but my experience with the ScanSpeak Revelator was that it produced some of the best midbass and midrange I've heard in a 5" - 6" 2-way, so a comparison would likely be with the bar set high.

Even with the more expensive upgraded Salk custom cabinet, the Philharmonitor seems like a pretty good value. It's on my list.

Steve

charmerci · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Mar 2016, 11:30 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 16 Mar 2016, 08:07 pm

It does seem that modern taste has been going towards treble emphasis with a more spritely presentation.

I think I would agree with that.

Quote from: Early B. on 16 Mar 2016, 08:35 pm

If the highs are excessive, don't blame your ears. There's an issue with the quality of the components and/or cables. As you continue to upgrade, the harshness will slowly disappear.

I don't blame my ears - I know I'm pretty sensitive as I imagine most people are around here.

Yup, as I slowly upgrade...

I hope someone soon will visit me with a set of very nice cables and a great DAC......

mresseguie · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Mar 2016, 12:22 pm »

"I hope someone soon will visit me with a set of very nice cables and a great DAC....."

I don't wish to get your hopes up too high, but there's a two-thirds chance that my wife and I will drive through AZ (west to east) on our way to Albuquerque at the end of April. There are three main routes from OR to NM and two involve our driving south into CA or Nevada and swinging east near LS or Las Vegas. The third route takes us through Salt Lake City. We have not yet decided which route to take. There are advantages to all three routes, so it's a real toss up right now.

I will have my new Gustard X20u DAC, my Triode Wire Labs loom (2 pairs RCA ICs, American 10+, Digital American power cord), my Adelphos monitors, and possibly my AVA 400R amp/T8 preamp. A lot depends on how much room there is for all my gear. My wife wouldn't be entirely thrilled with an audio stop in Flagstaff, but I imagine there are some natural wonders nearby that I could take her to see.

Michael

charmerci · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 Mar 2016, 11:41 pm »

Quote from: mresseguie on 17 Mar 2016, 12:22 pm

I will have my new Gustard X20u DAC, my Triode Wire Labs loom (2 pairs RCA ICs, American 10+, Digital American power cord), my Adelphos monitors, and possibly my AVA 400R amp/T8 preamp. A lot depends on how much room there is for all my gear. My wife wouldn't be entirely thrilled with an audio stop in Flagstaff, but I imagine there are some natural wonders nearby that I could take her to see.

Michael

Well, I've moved to Moab, UT (Arches and Canyonlands National Parks)

It's been crazy here this year with tons of tourists - book well ahead as there are events here many if not most weekends. My situation is such that I just don't have any room to put up any guests.

Keep in touch via PM though!

JeffB · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Mar 2016, 01:44 am »

A long time ago I had a car electronic crossover with an adjustable(via potentiometer) high-pass cross-over for the tweeter.
I discovered that what I thought to be high frequency harshness coming from the tweeter, was actually harshness coming from the mid-woofer breaking up near the cross-over point. This was a revelation to me. I now believe that what most people think of as excessive highs or harsh highs are actually near the cross-over frequency.

Here is the PartsExpress page for the Philharmonic mid-range driver:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/scanspeak-15w/8530k-00-5-revelator-woofer-low-qts/
You can see the frequency response graph undergoes a pretty big rise from 1kHz to 3kHz and 3kHz is the cross-over location.
There is also an impedance blip at 1kHz.
There will also be a transition from 2pi to 4pi space at around 1600Hz.

Perhaps the cross-over design takes all this into account perfectly, but I suspect from the comments above that it does not.

I have also had a crazy unproven thought about speaker drivers.
I think that perhaps lower quality drivers have some smearing to them that results in the frequency response seeming smoother.
A sort of anti-aliasing effect.
The higher quality drivers with better spectral decay may require very smooth response graphs in order to not sound harsh.

I don't really buy into the idea that changing amps/sources/cables will fix a harshness problem. The majority of distortion in a system is from the speakers.
My last two stock car audio systems have had seemingly perfect frequency responses without any hint of harshness. I believe that is because the in car response was measured and equalized for the car. It certainly wasn't due to expensive electronics.

abernardi · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Mar 2016, 03:59 am »

Quote from: JeffB on 18 Mar 2016, 01:44 am

...what I thought to be high frequency harshness coming from the tweeter, was actually harshness coming from the mid-woofer breaking up near the cross-over point.

I think this might be right on. I was (still am!

) having harshness that I thought was in the top end, and I've been focusing on room acoustics. But at one point I disengaged the tweeters completely (I'm bi-amped) and I still heard the peakiness that was bothering me. I recognized it though as distortion and changed amps and that helped. Still not gone, but maybe I should take another look at my crossover formula...