Beaming

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doggie

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Beaming
« on: 27 Feb 2016, 02:23 am »
I love my Omega Super 6 Alnico's but have been struggling with proper room placement since I got them. The issue is getting a properly placed center image. The issue is mostly with higher registers from upper mid-range up. I find that moving my head just a bit will center the image "properly" but does not effect the lower tones very much which always seem to be properly placed in the sound stage. In researching this a bit is seems that this might be called "beaming" and is common in single driver speakers for the higher frequencies.

I have tried various speaker placements but it does not seem to change the effect. I do have a bit of room treatment but I am not sure that this is a cure for beaming if that is indeed the right term here.

Any ideas or similar experiences?

Best,

Paul

seikosha

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Re: Beaming
« Reply #1 on: 27 Feb 2016, 03:19 am »
I've never had a speaker (and I've had dozens) that would maintain great imaging outside the sweet spot.  If you have a big room and you can place your speakers wider and sit further back, it helps, but the very nature of how stereo imaging works precludes anyone from getting perfect imaging outside of a fairly narrow sweet spot.

As frequencies increase, they beam more and more.  This is what you are probably experiencing.

Ultralight

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Re: Beaming
« Reply #2 on: 27 Feb 2016, 08:08 am »
I don't know enough about the Alnicos to state for sure but here are some thoughts:

1. RS5, being smaller drivers, have better disperson and absolutely no beaming that I can detect.   Larger drivers tends to beam more.  The Alnico are larger than the RS5 and thus, may beam more.

2. I wonder also if having whizzer cones do beam somewhat. 


paul79

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Re: Beaming
« Reply #3 on: 27 Feb 2016, 08:33 am »
I would try different footers, lean them back a bit more, or even try raising the speakers up somehow. This may help.

Folsom

Re: Beaming
« Reply #4 on: 27 Feb 2016, 08:22 pm »
An amplifier with more authority will make it so you don't have to toe in as much. Softer amplifiers will leave you wanting a bit more and it's problematic because the sound may be uncomfortable directly at the ears, but boring not aimed at them.

doggie

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Re: Beaming
« Reply #5 on: 29 Feb 2016, 02:52 am »
Thanks for all of the input. Tonight I put a spacer beneath the front spike which tilted them up just a bit. This seemed to help a lot.

undertow

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Re: Beaming
« Reply #6 on: 9 Mar 2016, 11:21 pm »
Any and all full range drivers I have had from Horning, to Zu exhibited some type of enhanced "Beaming" or even with an artificial sense of ringing tone.

It's really not completely eliminated, room treatments will help specifically putting panels on the ceiling above the speakers, but mostly will be more directly impacted by electrically contouring the full range, or flat out crossover changes. But then it's just as easy to get into a really good multi-driver full range systems not having to try, and tiptoe around the limitations of full range drivers in the first place.

Good luck

Ultralight

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Re: Beaming
« Reply #7 on: 10 Mar 2016, 12:49 am »
Do all yours have whizzer cones?

Any and all full range drivers I have had from Horning, to Zu exhibited some type of enhanced "Beaming" or even with an artificial sense of ringing tone.

It's really not completely eliminated, room treatments will help specifically putting panels on the ceiling above the speakers, but mostly will be more directly impacted by electrically contouring the full range, or flat out crossover changes. But then it's just as easy to get into a really good multi-driver full range systems not having to try, and tiptoe around the limitations of full range drivers in the first place.

Good luck

paul79

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Re: Beaming
« Reply #8 on: 10 Mar 2016, 02:16 am »
Thanks for all of the input. Tonight I put a spacer beneath the front spike which tilted them up just a bit. This seemed to help a lot.

Good start! I would replace the spikes with Herbie's Gliders or get the glider the spike will sit in. IME, it is better to isolate a speaker from the floor, especially if it is concrete.

You can get these studded with plenty of length to adjust tilt, etc...

paul79

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Re: Beaming
« Reply #9 on: 10 Mar 2016, 02:17 am »
delete

undertow

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Re: Beaming
« Reply #10 on: 10 Mar 2016, 02:05 pm »
Do all yours have whizzer cones?

Well the Zu's had larger 10" with whizzer cones yes. However, the Hornings are 6", and they literally modify the drivers from lowther by removing the "Whizzer" cone as one of the design features.

Your above observation holds somewhat true in my experience -  "1. RS5, being smaller drivers, have better dispersion, and absolutely no beaming that I can detect.   Larger drivers tends to beam more.  The Alnico are larger than the RS5 and thus, may beam more."

Canada Rob

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Re: Beaming
« Reply #11 on: 10 Mar 2016, 10:43 pm »
Hearing many models of Omega speakers over the years, and that includes the 8" Hoyt-Bedfords, I don't recall any major off axis image loss.  Dispersion has always been good with any Omega I've heard, even to the point where the image remained intact (like moving around the venue during a live performance and the lead singer remained in their position) even well off center axis.  The speaker isn't necessarily always the culprit in a beaming situation.  The upline equipment, cabling, speaker positioning, and room acoustics can have huge effect.  Where I find the greatest change in image perception is on the desktop where everything is so close and detailed.  But on the desktop one won't likely move out of the "sweet spot", so beaming isn't a big issue anyway.

The "6.5 inch" Alnico driver only has an actual active diameter (including surround) of 5-5/8".  Pretty small. 
The RS5 driver has an active diameter of 4".  It's dispersion will not be much better than the Alnico.
Both are capable of throwing not just a deep soundstage, but also a very wide one, extending well beyond the outside of the speakers.

In about four decades of audio, I don't recall a better imaging speaker than the Omegas, nor do I recall ones with better dispersion. YMMV
All the current Omega line, even though they image exceptionally well with good solid state and PP tubes, still image the best with a good single tube per output SET.