[JLM]

I have an old friend who has a really nice house but is cheap and no audiophile (to say the least).  He invited friends over to watch the Super Bowl last night.  The main viewing area was the smaller end (roughly 20 ft x 25 ft) of a large basement space (roughly 1,400 s.f., partially divided by the stairwell (think a fat racetrack shape).  After 12 years of living there he finally (with lots of volunteer help) completed the space and added a modern flat panel (LG) TV. 

I know almost nothing TV's but have read that sound quality/output from flat panels is crummy (as I would expect).  Because there were maybe 12 watching he had the captioning turned on but at half time the volume got turned up to hear the program.  I was sitting in the front (6 feet away), but even at "56" volume setting it was only at a low setting (my old Sony is louder at half that setting in our 220 s.f. family room).  Even with low expectations I was amazed at how really poor the sound quality/quantity was.

Anyway he has a standing offer from me to help him pick out/install a 5.1 system.  I'm sure he's thinking $300 all-in-one-box system and I'm thinking $3,000 system to fill that large space (especially in consideration of bass) and to match the quality of his home.  The rear channels are already pre-wired at the drop ceiling.  He's got a large/department store equipment rack and only uses a disc player and cable box.  HDTV and 5.1 with 3 HDMI inputs will be plenty good.  Anything complicated will confuse me on setup and him for everyday use (we're both old farts).

Need help picking a receiver and sub(s).  He'll choke if the total cost goes beyond $1,000.  So I'm looking as far down as Dayton Audio speakers/sub with a $200 receiver ($500 total).

TIA

[WGH]

To keep things simple and eliminate the possibility of shipping damage how about shopping at Best Buy? They carry the Andrew Jones designed Pioneer SP-FS52 Dual 5-1/4" 3-Way Floorstanding Speaker for $129 each. Your friend can listen and touch them before buying and return them if they don't work out. I think the small $30 pr Dayton speakers would work for surrounds. The Dayton $100 subs have no definition but work well for a rumbly bass with movies and TV (not so good for just music).

[JLM]

I've heard the new Andrew Jones Elac B6 and much prefer them to the Pioneers. 

Should have mentioned that a sound bar would probably fit best in his given space (the 20 foot width includes two openings and a bar).

[randytsuch]

How about a used receiver?

IMHO, much more bang for the buck getting a few year old receiver.  Sounds like he doesn't need (or want) all the new bells and whistles anyway.

craigslist might work.

Also, a logitech remote, although they cost a few bucks, might make the system a lot more usable.  Kind of a pain to setup, but once they are setup, push one button, like "Watch DVD", and it turns on the TV, DVD player and receiver, and sets them all up to watch a movie.

Randy

[Phil A]

Don't forget accessories4less.com.  You can get a refurb receiver starting about $130, give or take, and they have speakers too.

[ACHiPo]

I have an old friend who has a really nice house but is cheap and no audiophile (to say the least).  He invited friends over to watch the Super Bowl last night.  The main viewing area was the smaller end (roughly 20 ft x 25 ft) of a large basement space (roughly 1,400 s.f., partially divided by the stairwell (think a fat racetrack shape).  After 12 years of living there he finally (with lots of volunteer help) completed the space and added a modern flat panel (LG) TV. 

I know almost nothing TV's but have read that sound quality/output from flat panels is crummy (as I would expect).  Because there were maybe 12 watching he had the captioning turned on but at half time the volume got turned up to hear the program.  I was sitting in the front (6 feet away), but even at "56" volume setting it was only at a low setting (my old Sony is louder at half that setting in our 220 s.f. family room).  Even with low expectations I was amazed at how really poor the sound quality/quantity was.

Anyway he has a standing offer from me to help him pick out/install a 5.1 system.  I'm sure he's thinking $300 all-in-one-box system and I'm thinking $3,000 system to fill that large space (especially in consideration of bass) and to match the quality of his home.  The rear channels are already pre-wired at the drop ceiling.  He's got a large/department store equipment rack and only uses a disc player and cable box.  HDTV and 5.1 with 3 HDMI inputs will be plenty good.  Anything complicated will confuse me on setup and him for everyday use (we're both old farts).

Need help picking a receiver and sub(s).  He'll choke if the total cost goes beyond $1,000.  So I'm looking as far down as Dayton Audio speakers/sub with a $200 receiver ($500 total).

TIA

One word:  SONOS

Not 5.1, but start with a Playbar at $700.  It actually provides pretty decent "pseudo" surround.  He (and you) could very well be happy just with the Playbar (it has something like 9 amps and speakers).  If desired, the second purchase should be a sub, again $700, but if he really wants surround (still not 5.1, but decent) he could go with two Play:1s for $400/pr.  If he's cheap (like me--or as I prefer "frugal") he'll still want to add a few Play 3s and Play 5s upstairs, as they sound great and, unlike built-ins, they're wireless (except of course for power) so you can move them around as desired pretty easily for background music.  Plus they're all controllable from an iPhone, iPad, or PC.

[RDavidson]

In my experience, people like your friend don't really enjoy having too much gear and wires and stuff to fool around with, but they like the idea of having better sound. While I usually frown at sound bars, I see their usefulness. In some cases, sound bars can pack an impressive amount of tech. Yamaha has been at it awhile now and probably make some of the very best overall examples. This is their new TOTL unit:
http://m.usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/sound-bars-digital-sound-projectors/ysp-5600_u.html

[Doublej]

There will be some great deals as February is clearance time. You'll likely be able to pick up a pair of Infinity, Polk, Boston Acoustics, JBL, etc. floor standers for under $300/pr. I am sure you'll be able to find bookshelf speakers from these brands for possibly $200/pr.

Pair it with a $200 fav-o-rite receiver from Yamaha, Pioneer, Onkyo, Denon or Sony are you are done!

[youravhandyman]

One word:  SONOS

Not 5.1, but start with a Playbar at $700.  It actually provides pretty decent "pseudo" surround.  He (and you) could very well be happy just with the Playbar (it has something like 9 amps and speakers).  If desired, the second purchase should be a sub, again $700, but if he really wants surround (still not 5.1, but decent) he could go with two Play:1s for $400/pr.  If he's cheap (like me--or as I prefer "frugal") he'll still want to add a few Play 3s and Play 5s upstairs, as they sound great and, unlike built-ins, they're wireless (except of course for power) so you can move them around as desired pretty easily for background music.  Plus they're all controllable from an iPhone, iPad, or PC.

If the budget is sub $1k the Sonos burned the budget.  If the sound bar and distributed sound option is appealing you could entertain the Denon HEOS since the soundbar comes with the sub for the $700ish price range.
Benefits:  price, HDMI input and included sub.  You can also distribute the audio from the TV to other HEOS speakers in it's network.
Downsides:  can't do the surround like SONOS with rear speakers.  The dolby effects are digital steering though sound pretty good.  And it's not SONOS so I'm sure I have offended some by simply suggesting this option. 

Disclaimer of sorts:  I am a dealer of both products so take my recommendations with your chosen amount of salt.

[ACHiPo]

If the budget is sub $1k the Sonos burned the budget.  If the sound bar and distributed sound option is appealing you could entertain the Denon HEOS since the soundbar comes with the sub for the $700ish price range.
Benefits:  price, HDMI input and included sub.  You can also distribute the audio from the TV to other HEOS speakers in it's network.
Downsides:  can't do the surround like SONOS with rear speakers.  The dolby effects are digital steering though sound pretty good.  And it's not SONOS so I'm sure I have offended some by simply suggesting this option. 

Disclaimer of sorts:  I am a dealer of both products so take my recommendations with your chosen amount of salt.

I'm definitely not offended, nor am I a dealer. 

After re-reading my post I realized it came out more emphatic than I intended.   I've just been really happy with SONOS for what it does, and if I wasn't an audiophool I'd be quite happy with it being my only audio/AV system.  It does, however, blow the budget. The Denon solution sounds interesting as well.

[charmerci]

Don't forget accessories4less.com.  You can get a refurb receiver starting about $130, give or take, and they have speakers too.

+1 Denon receiver for 150

Then BIC PL200 sub - $330
Forget that! See the sub prices below!

Then go here now! Great speakers at great closeout prices - won't find anything to touch them at these prices. If I had the space for a separate HT  - I'd only tell you after I bought some for myself!

http://emptek.com/bstock_template.php

[Charles Calkins]

I have an old friend who has a really nice house but is cheap and no audiophile (to say the least).  He invited friends over to watch the Super Bowl last night.  The main viewing area was the smaller end (roughly 20 ft x 25 ft) of a large basement space (roughly 1,400 s.f., partially divided by the stairwell (think a fat racetrack shape).  After 12 years of living there he finally (with lots of volunteer help) completed the space and added a modern flat panel (LG) TV. 

I know almost nothing TV's but have read that sound quality/output from flat panels is crummy (as I would expect).  Because there were maybe 12 watching he had the captioning turned on but at half time the volume got turned up to hear the program.  I was sitting in the front (6 feet away), but even at "56" volume setting it was only at a low setting (my old Sony is louder at half that setting in our 220 s.f. family room).  Even with low expectations I was amazed at how really poor the sound quality/quantity was.

Anyway he has a standing offer from me to help him pick out/install a 5.1 system.  I'm sure he's thinking $300 all-in-one-box system and I'm thinking $3,000 system to fill that large space (especially in consideration of bass) and to match the quality of his home.  The rear channels are already pre-wired at the drop ceiling.  He's got a large/department store equipment rack and only uses a disc player and cable box.  HDTV and 5.1 with 3 HDMI inputs will be plenty good.  Anything complicated will confuse me on setup and him for everyday use (we're both old farts).

Need help picking a receiver and sub(s).  He'll choke if the total cost goes beyond $1,000.  So I'm looking as far down as Dayton Audio speakers/sub with a $200 receiver ($500 total).

TIA

  JLM:
     I watched the Super bowl game but I didn't listen to the Game. I listened to tunes. Always have works for me!!
     As far as a receiver goes for your Bud I've have an Onkyo  5.2 surround sound receiver. I've had it for years and never had any trouble with it.

                                                                     Cheers
                                                                   Charlie

[jarcher]

One word:  SONOS

Not 5.1, but start with a Playbar at $700.  It actually provides pretty decent "pseudo" surround.  He (and you) could very well be happy just with the Playbar (it has something like 9 amps and speakers).  If desired, the second purchase should be a sub, again $700, but if he really wants surround (still not 5.1, but decent) he could go with two Play:1s for $400/pr.  If he's cheap (like me--or as I prefer "frugal") he'll still want to add a few Play 3s and Play 5s upstairs, as they sound great and, unlike built-ins, they're wireless (except of course for power) so you can move them around as desired pretty easily for background music.  Plus they're all controllable from an iPhone, iPad, or PC.

I'm with achipo here. If he can do $1K, he can do $1400 for Sonos playbar and Sonos sub. Sounds like he's got money. No reason to aggravate life for both of you trying to set up some bargain basement receiver w/ cables and speakers galore. Sonos is foolproof to set up (it even comes with a toslink cable to connect to tv). And it will sound a lot better than the tv speaker - the sub is actually really good.

If he gets enthusiastic about the whole surround sound thing post Sonos something more ambitious can be done and the Sonos gear repurposed to another room (like a bedroom).

Ps - I'd pony up $40 for the wall mount bracket as well.

[Odal3]

Is the surround really required? I find myself turning off my AVR frequently and just run the TV sound via a regular stereo amp and 2 main speakers + sub for a lot of sports and TV type of shows.

If watching movies is important, the AVR with multi-channel makes it more fun (but if budget is slim, I would still put my money on better main speakers and sub than using up the money on center and surrounds). 

Many have reported OK results for the low-end Yamaha's or Marantz that can be found for $200 or so. Perhaps one of the slim versions would do? Here's one: http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marnr1504/marantz-nr1504-slimline-5.1-network-av-receiver-airplay/1.html

High end AVRs are of course much better but I must say they make a bad investment especially now with the everchanging standards. If the TV or cable-box has audio out (e.g. spdif), another option is to look for an older used AVR without HDMI. The cable box can be connected via HDMI to TV for video and the audio to the AVRs. You can find pre-HDMI flag-ship models dirt cheap.

and finally, after big TV events such as the Superbowl, there are a lot of open-box returns that can be found at the major electronics stores.

Best of luck!

[charmerci]

I'm with achipo here. If he can do $1K, he can do $1400 for Sonos playbar and Sonos sub. Sounds like he's got money. No reason to aggravate life for both of you trying to set up some bargain basement receiver w/ cables and speakers galore.

Hey - JLM goes over to watch stuff, better to get better quality stuff for his ears! 

[JLM]

Thanks for all the advice so far. 

My friend and I are both old farts and very very far from computer savvy, so anything that requires a computer to run, like Sonos or Denon HEOS appear to, is out.  (And it's not like I'm over there very often to watch TV, so don't worry about me.)

Odal3, lots of good points, especially about open box returns (that would light his frugal fire).  Surround sound is probably not necessary, but he's been staring at the rear speaker wires hanging from the ceiling for years, so there's a major expectation factor there.  Heck my first A/V system was 2.1.

archer and rdavidson, please PM me if you'd like to contribute $ to this project.   

Phil, I'll look into accessories4less.com

We live in a small market, so Craigslist is really slim pickings.  Besides don't want to set up my buddy with used gear that might not be in full working condition.

Found a Yamaha YAS-203 round bar with wireless sub for $300 that is well rated and looks simple/cheap enough to fit the bill, but I've first got to nail down out what his goals are.

[jarcher]

A Sonos playbar is within the budget you stated (under $1k) and the sub, while great, is optional.  Considering that the guys basement is almost the size of my entire house, I don't have a lot of sympathy for wanting to keep things to a couple hundred dollars. If he doesn't want make the minimum required investment,  that shouldn't be your problem. At that point he should probably just be content with his TV speakers.

There's no computer required. The initial set up requires running the free app on a smartphone or tablet, which we all own or have access to. After that you don't even need those - the television remote operates the volume and input switching.

 Just trying to save you headaches JLM -  not only in the set up, but in the invariable post installation. since you were involved in that phase, your friend will invariably expect assistance with any future problems. And with most multi channel home theater set ups, it's not a question of if, but when.  As an audio video dealer and custom installer my comments are based on experience -  but that's my job and I get paid well by the hour  to resolve AV problems - whereas your doing this for free.  I'm sure you have better uses of your time and would prefer to enjoy watching programs with your friend without hassles. At least that was my understanding from your original post saying you wanted to keep it simple. Cheap and cheerful shouldn't be cheap and complicated as well!

[srb]

I would go with a 5.0 system.  Cheap subwoofers most often crapify and muddy the sound, and the sound quality and impact of movies through decent size full-range speakers with 6.5" and 5.25" drivers (sans sub) can be quite satisfying, with potentially more room-filling sound.

Front:    Elac B6  (6.5" w/ silk dome) - $280
Center:  Elac C5  (2 X 5.25" w/ silk dome) - $180
Rear:     Polk OWM3  (4.5" w/ silk dome, white & wall mountable) - $100

Receiver:  Marantz NR1605 or SR5009 - $350 - $430 (Refurb)

Slimline NR1605 for aesthetics or full-height SR5009 for twice the power and a bit of future proofing with additional inputs and outputs for $80 more.  Both have versatility of Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and Airplay.

Total:  $910 to $990 plus a few cables

Steve

[Phil A]

If you're looking at sound bars also don't forget Zvox - http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_10?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=zvox+soundbase&sprefix=zvox+sound%2Caps%2C164

[JLM]

Personally I consider a subwoofer (even if only a mushy one note boom box) as required for any AV system.

Great advice jarcher. 

Thanks Phil, I knew that such a product had existed, but thought the species had died out.