MasterBuilt Audio Cables

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Sandrock

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Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #80 on: 20 Jun 2018, 11:57 pm »
Well Russell,
You maybe quite right in your response.
However as this thread is about specifically "speaker/audio cables" one has the understanding that your comments go directly to the point of you not hearing any 'differences' between cables.
I think you may of stated or implied that point with your previous rhetoric which was understood by others on this site to be the case.

Now, you have made an about face and only claim that you would not "pay" for high-priced cables because its to much money for you to spend. 
This is a valid point, but it is directly opposed to all of your previous posts, skirting around the issue of not hearing any differences between cables. 

So are we reaching the "your funny" post?
Or do we have more to go before that card is played?

Just wondering......

htradtk

Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #81 on: 20 Jun 2018, 11:58 pm »
Russel,

There is some very intelligent audiophiles on this thread, we don’t need no cheep talk here! Yes, those Masterbuilt cables are amazing! I see a Signature Power cord in my future!

Henry

gammajo

Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #82 on: 21 Jun 2018, 12:06 am »
Russell
Just to be clear. I am amazed that you feel qualified to deride as in "joke of the day" without ever hearing the product in question. Does that not seem a laughable position?

Sandrock

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Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #83 on: 21 Jun 2018, 12:15 am »
Wind chaser,

I can fully understand your valid comments.

What we are discussing is a vital part of the HiFi system, specifically the speaker/audio cables.
As I am sure you will agree that on this site and this thread we are discussing the merits of inserting MasterBuilt cables into our systems and how it changes/improves the sound of that said system.

MasterBuilt cables are at the very pinnacle of performance and well above the mundane stereo systems of the general public at large.
So its important to understand that placing to much emphasis/price on only one particular part of the whole system will unbalance the system as a whole and could be a waste of money with 'over-kill'.

It might be the case that what you have right now might not be beneficial to purchase MasterBuilt cables as it could get your system out of whack at least financially-speaking.  Only you can make that decision.

I will say that if you were to purchase any of the masterBuilt line it will only improve your sound but by how much I am not sure and only you can determine that amount.
These cables are not for everyone but to those who have a resolving system the cables will resolve the system even more so.

Its players choice and your milage may vary.

But as Joe has suggested, if you are at all interested in them then contact Joe or your nearest dealer or the factory and try them in your own system.
I did and I was hooked in a big way!

Just my 2 cents worth.

Happy listening to your system.
I know I am really enjoying the new-found sonics that MasterBuilt has brought to my table......

Sandrock

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Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #84 on: 21 Jun 2018, 12:20 am »
Gammajo,

Well said!
Again, once a troll always a troll, right?
Its sad that we have trolls but given where we are politically-speaking they seem to come out of hiding and try to create havoc with other intelligent and caring people who value the truth and facts as presented to them.

Sandrock

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Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #85 on: 21 Jun 2018, 12:38 am »
I guess when one pays that kind of money in one's pursuit of sonic perfection, one has elevated oneself socially to the point that one can start throwing "ones" around, and does.

"One can lead a horse to water but one can not make it drink", eh?

Give me a break.

Here's something to consider: I never said I couldn't hear a difference between cables, did I? One seems to have missed that.

My microphone cables cost me $10 USD a foot in 1990 dollars, as did all my analog interconnects in my studio. By pro standards of the time I was nuts and looked at sideways, but I did it because I could hear the difference.

What I am arguing about is the wisdom of spilling $7500 big ones on speaker cable instead of buying, say, better speakers—or positioning your speakers better in your listening room. I see you have yours firing straight ahead; almost never optimum under any circumstances.

So Russell,

Iam even more confused with your comment above!
Why did you not just come out of the closet and state that point in the first place???
Why all the beating about the bush when all you needed to say was that you found MasterBuilt cables way too expensive for your pocket book!
But for some strange reason you thought it would be cute to play games instead.
What a boring person you are!

Again, I don't disagree with you about the high price of admission to the MasterBuilt line of cables however I am so astounded with what they can do to my upper-midrange system that I am delighted to pay the entrance fee.
Some can, others are unable to either want to or be able to pay that price.
Perhaps you are in the latter instead of the former?

Russell Dawkins

Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #86 on: 21 Jun 2018, 02:58 am »
I'm done; I'm just wasting my time.

One has one's limits.

I've had enough popcorn.

Letitroll98

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Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #87 on: 21 Jun 2018, 02:39 pm »
Sandrock, I've just read this thread and I have to say it's been awhile since I've seen such sanctimonious cyber bullying on this site.  Russell Dawkins is a well respected and very experienced recording engineer and you go after him like teenager on Facebook with your fanboy rhetoric and insults.  I suppose this is allowed on the manufacturer circles, I assure you it wouldn't be tolerated on the community circles.

By all accounts Master Built cables are excellent products that transmit every nuance of the recording.  They are superior in every way to many other cables.  There is nothing, I mean absolutely nothing, in these cables that can't be duplicated with a minor amount of forensic analysis.  The geometry can be had with a utility knife and a pair of diagonal pliers.  The metallurgy and dielectric composition can be determined by any QC/QA chemical lab in the country.  The connectors can be purchased by anyone.  In fact, the construction details, such as they are described on the website, looks quite like the premium line of our own Zen Wave Audio here on AC.  The point being there is nothing new under the sun about cables.  There's no special knowledge that only Master Built engineers are aware of or materials only they have access to.  Quality products like these are expensive to manufacture and the price should reflect that.  There's no friggin way any audio cable with any construction or materials justify an $8,000 price tag (I'm going by reported pricing, there doesn't seem to be a price list anywhere so please feel free to correct me).  The "magic sauce" descriptions on the web site doesn't engender confidence that everything is above board.  I'm sure Chinese clones could be had for a significant price break.  My thoughts without having heard them in my system, an excellent product that's significantly over priced.

maxima95

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Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #88 on: 21 Jun 2018, 03:24 pm »
Letitroll98

Spot on.  Thank you for stepping up.

Russell made a somewhat condescending post (#63) that could be read as implying that cables don't make a difference.  However, in his subsequent posts, he never said that cables don't make a difference; only that the MB at issue were overpriced. 

Sandrock - There was no need to repeatedly flog the same or similar point with adolescent rhetoric, particularly when you made an incorrect assumption.

Letitroll98

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Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #89 on: 21 Jun 2018, 03:59 pm »
Yes, Russell can be very blunt and often condescending regarding his opinions on the general subject of home audio, but when dealing with someone personally he is always the perfect English gentleman and never makes a personal attack.  He's no wimp, he will defend himself when attacked, usually with a snide comment about the issue, but you don't see him questioning a person's hearing or the quality of their system.  We have often disagreed, but I can't remember a single argument, it's entirely unfair that he is treated this way.  Typically a facilitator would have stepped in a while back, but I completely understand that manufacturer's circles are paid for and can moderate as they see fit, I wouldn't ever question their decisions here.  I hope I haven't stepped on the toes of the sponsors with my posts, I felt somewhat offended and thought I should speak up.

Wind Chaser

Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #90 on: 21 Jun 2018, 04:17 pm »
I can appreciate Russel's point, these are most likely the most insanely expensive cables on the market. However they are not intended to be used with the vast majority of systems. As much as I hate formulas, a system budget of about 20% allocated to cables means there is a place for these; so if your system is worth at least 50K and you're wondering if there's a bottle neck, these might be the answer. But for anyone with a system where the speakers and components do not cost as much as these cables, these cables would not be appropriate. As Russell pointed out, you'd be far better off spending a few thousand dollars more on new speakers (or an amp etc) than new cables. 

Delta77

Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #91 on: 21 Jun 2018, 04:26 pm »
I can appreciate Russel's point, these are most likely the most insanely expensive cables on the market. However they are not intended to be used with the vast majority of systems. As much as I hate formulas, a system budget of about 20% allocated to cables means there is a place for these; so if your system is worth at least 50K and you're wondering if there's a bottle neck, these might be the answer. But for anyone with a system where the speakers and components do not cost as much as these cables, these cables would not be appropriate. As Russell pointed out, you'd be far better off spending a few thousand dollars more on new speakers (or an amp etc) than new cables.

My option would be pretty much exactly the same as you wrote here..
 Must be a budget for the Cables..  15 - 25 %, of system total would sound about right..

kernelbob

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Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #92 on: 21 Jun 2018, 05:09 pm »
I disagree about the budget percentages for cables.  Way too simplistic.  Listen and evaluate the impact, then decide on what level to purchase based on the sound.

Wind Chaser

Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #93 on: 21 Jun 2018, 05:40 pm »
I disagree about the budget percentages for cables.  Way too simplistic.  Listen and evaluate the impact, then decide on what level to purchase based on the sound.

That’s fine, I did say “I hate formulas” - didn’t I?

My point was it doesn’t make sense to spend as much or even more on cables than the rest of your system. If one’s system is worth 15K, they’d be pretty fucking stupid to spend 5K on a power cord, or 7K on a pair of ICs, or 17k on speaker cables etc.

gammajo

Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #94 on: 21 Jun 2018, 06:48 pm »
Windchaser - These are not most expensive cables on market  - witness Crystal Cable PC $16,500, Siltech Emperior Speaker Cable $40,000, Nordost $33,000, Audioquest Speaker $76,000, MIT ACC $80,000 and the list goes on through another half dozen brands at least.
 
Kernelbob +1,

Evaluate many products of all types and compare cost to benefit IN YOUR SYSTEM with your room, power quality, equipment, musical tastes and budget with no preconceptions and you may be surprised where the best bang for buck comes from. Particularly at higher levels of resolution, and low levels of noise, cables may come into the equation with increasing importance. 

Wind Chaser

Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #95 on: 21 Jun 2018, 08:12 pm »
Windchaser - These are not most expensive cables on market  - witness Crystal Cable PC $16,500, Siltech Emperior Speaker Cable $40,000, Nordost $33,000, Audioquest Speaker $76,000, MIT ACC $80,000 and the list goes on through another half dozen brands at least.

Just goes to prove that if you build it, they will come. I think I'm going to design high end cables starting at 500K for the entry level.

And people wonder why high end audio is dying...

gammajo

Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #96 on: 21 Jun 2018, 08:59 pm »
Wind Chaser - Indeed top prices on all stereo equipment are now stratospheric. It joins to unobtainium enjoyed by the new royalty in the areas of private planes, yachts, watches etc. I count myself blessed to have found a very sweet musical spot, miles below the top. Such discovery is the reward carefully listening to stuff both above and below one's range of affordability and picking the best value for your circumstances. I was surprised along the way to find for me that cables contributed much more than I expected to the mix.

Early B.

Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #97 on: 21 Jun 2018, 10:21 pm »
I was surprised along the way to find for me that cables contributed much more than I expected to the mix.

This is a key point. It may sound strange to some, but cables can improve the sound more than a component upgrade. That's why some of them are priced accordingly. Audio is a very strange hobby. There are no formulas. Sometimes you gotta throw common sense and reasoning out of the window.

 
     

Rx8man

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Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #98 on: 22 Jun 2018, 12:14 am »
This is how I view it, if you have the cash to spend on a particular cable and it sounds great in your system, have at it and be happy.

I know things can be ridiculously priced, no need to justify it, or if you want a better deal, wait a while for a used one to come up, there is a market out there, that simple.

Another thing, it's easier to skip threads you don't like or agree with, no one's forcing anyones fingers, just walk away, life's too short to argue over these beaten debates.


OzarkTom

Re: MasterBuilt Audio Cables
« Reply #99 on: 22 Jun 2018, 12:46 am »
Windchaser - These are not most expensive cables on market  - witness Crystal Cable PC $16,500, Siltech Emperior Speaker Cable $40,000, Nordost $33,000, Audioquest Speaker $76,000, MIT ACC $80,000 and the list goes on through another half dozen brands at least.

Wow! :o

Give me this kind of money and I will add the ultimate soundroom to my house. Room acoustics has been the biggest difference in my experience in the last 45 years. 15 years selling high end audio.