[gammajo]

New review of the Reference line just came out in The Absolute Sound - they loved it.
Yes cost is an issue. I was able to get some Ultra because my business had an amazing year a few years back and I can purchase as business expense and thereby save taxes, and it is one of those invisible upgrades that pleases my wife, versus more "stereo boxes" in the room.

[Sandrock]

These cables and truly amazing.......   You need to give them a listen!   

To hear them in person is the only way to properly evaluate them.

They are amazing....

[Sandrock]

My apologies, for neglecting to mention in my previous post that I was at the time listening intently to my system and it prompted me to post how amazing the new bi-wire MasterBuilt cables sound in my system and how it has vastly improved my music listening pleasure.

Again, thank you Joe Hakim of Eigen Audio for allowing me to be able to test-drive the Reference line of MasterBuilt cables in my home system. 

Without hearing them in my system I would still be sitting on the outside looking in and wondering what others who have the product are talking/raving about.  Hence my prompting last night to post on AC to share the excitement I was experiencing.

[Russell Dawkins]

I keep subscribed to this thread for a daily chuckle.

[leif8660]

Hello Sandrock,

Thanks for sharing your experience with the MB cables.

I never get tired of hearing about the MB cables and how it has changed peoples systems:)

I just wanted to share with you that I use the Reference power cords, Reference USB, and Reference XLR Interconnects in my system at home. I know not to dare bring Ultra home.  I did that once and so very quickly took it out knowing I didn't want to go down the rabbit hole lol.  I never sit there thinking I wish this system sounded better.  I am running the Signature speaker cables.  The beauty of the MB cables is how well they integrate between the four different lines.  Putting just one set of Ultra interconnects in between the pre and amp can change the system to an entirely different level.  The same would be for adding a Signature I/C to a loom of Reference.  Or just increasing the amount of Reference to the system is huge!  Adding MB power cords is a major increase to sonic performance.  The Performance Line power cords is MB's least expensive cable, but this is a great way to really increase system performance for the least amount of money.
I very happy to hear you are please with the cables and they will continue to improve over time.  I still get phone calls from customers telling me that even after 1000 hours their system is still improving.  Sit back and enjoy the ride😊

All the best

Leif

[Sandrock]

Well Russell, If you can see the humor in speaker cables then more power to you!
I guess humor works in mysterious ways and perhaps you are a 'testament' to that fact.

BTW, just wondering if you have ever consulted a 'Hearing Doctor' or 'audiologist' to check out to see if you might be "hearing impaired" and/or can not actually hear any improvements and unable to notice how much quality cables make to a system, sound-wise!

If not then I would highly recommend that you make an appointment right away before your hearing gets any worse. 

Just a tip from the 'wise'. 

Good luck with what they say and perhaps the medical profession can fix/cure your hearing to a point that you will be better able to hear in the future.

[gammajo]

One audiophile I respect calls these trolls "pigeons". They come in drop their poop and leave. I am  interested in posts where the person actually reports that they listened to any equipment, cable etc in their system, described the system, room and type of music, and then states that they heard no difference, or better or worse change. That type data is valuable versus apriori conjecture and judgement.

[Russell Dawkins]

Sandrock and gammajo,

After the best part of 45 years depending on my hearing for my livelihood, my hearing had better be fine, and it is. Thanks for your 'concern'.

Something important I have learned over those years is the incredible power of expectation bias. I have been bitten more than once by it.

Many have never experienced this for themselves because they have never needed to take the trouble, and meaningful comparisons are difficult.

[Early B.]

Something important I have learned over those years is the incredible power of expectation bias. I have been bitten more than once by it.

Let's assume most upgrades are a result of expectation bias. So what? If it's perceived as better, then it's better. No one can say otherwise. Obviously, if I buy an "upgrade," I expect it to be better than what it replaces. Am I biased? Damn right I am. But that proves nothing. 

Some people seem to forget that audio is exceedingly subjective, so insisting on objectivity with listening tests borders on being ridiculous.   

[Sandrock]

Hello Gammajo,

I concur with your comments.  I have a friend who behaves in the same way and its funny to watch him respond back with all sorts of different tracks when I confront him with the "truth". 
He just can't handle it! 
So the end result for him is to say once he knows he has been pinned to the mat is to say out loud...
Your funny!
This is his way of acknowledging that he is beat and logic and truth have won out!

I wonder if Russell might display the same 'behavior-pattern' when he gets pinned to the mat?

But perhaps not, as we all know, 'once a troll always a troll' and no amount of settled science of facts will discourage them!
For some reason they all seem to relish in their stupidity and ignorance and will never admit that they might be wrong!! 

He is just like my friend.....

I always say the "one should give casual time to casual people, and serious time to serious people"

Sometimes when I feel in the mood and have the time to play, I like to 'thrust and parry" with them for fun as it continues to amaze me how pig-headed they can be and the stupidity of their answers is dumbfounding.

Sad but true.

[es347]

I keep subscribed to this thread for a daily chuckle.

..really?  How bout letting us in on the joke?

[Sandrock]

Early B,

How very true you are and I fully concur with your comments!
Congratulations for being so succinct in your post!

I guess one can lead a horse to water but one can not make it drink it, right?

[Russell Dawkins]

I guess one can lead a horse to water but one can not make it drink it, right?

I guess 'one' cannot.

I was trying to be helpful in my response but now realize the impossibility of the task.

Of course I should have known that 'one' becomes very emotionally involved when 'one' spends an absurd amount of money on something so difficult to rationalize.

Forget it, y'all.

[Wind Chaser]

So is there a money back satisfaction guarantee?

Despite all the explanations, at the end of the day we're still talking about cables with wire, right?

Shit, I thought I blew a roll on some costly liquid cables with a great deal of scientific explanation, which quite frankly flew over my head. But at least I was able to grasp one thing, there's no wire in my cables. And even though I haven't compared them to anything except some well regarded high value wire cables - yes the liquid cables are clearly superior.

To my way of thinking wire is wire, even if Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee "built" it so to speak. Nonetheless I am open minded.

[Russell Dawkins]

..really?  How bout letting us in on the joke?

You're right. Spending megabucks on wire is not funny.

The scrambling to rationalize is what I found amusing. Not any more, though. Life is too short.

[Sandrock]

Russell,

I am so surprised to learn that you have depended on your hearing for 45 years for your livelihood and yet if that were so, then I wonder why you can not hear the difference between cables like others can?
I mean especially since you have relied on your hearing for 45 years for your livelihood it would seem to be a 'no-brainer' for sure.
Unlike the rest of us who listen for recreation and enjoyment without depending on our hearing for our livelihood we actually can hear a difference.

So I am confused as to why you claim that there is no difference in wire performance regardless of cost? 
What am I missing? 
Because you know, that I and others do hear the difference!

For me, I come from a practical background as in 'show-me' and leave my emotions outside the door before I enter the room.
That way it comes down to the reality of is this product better, worse or the same as I have now?
Money aside.

As I mentioned several posts ago, the reason I use the term "One" is because its a pronoun in the English language.  It is a gender-neutral, indefinite pronoun, meaning roughly "a person".  Simple huh?
Especially when one has proper and correct command of the English language.

So as I was saying before I digressed for an clarification moment,  "one generally gets what one pays for"
And in this case MasterBuilt cables outperform all others but at a higher price, right?

That my friend is then up to you to decide if you want to pay the 'freight' or pass and know that you could have better if only you could affort to pay more, simple huh?

[Wind Chaser]

If you don't mind, I have another question...

Do you offer any system counselling, recommendations or advice as far as associated gear is concerned? Surely you must understand, just because a component is relatively very costly, that doesn't mean it is inherently objectively/subjectively better than a much less costlier component. I had a friend who by his own admission understood this with respect to his Levinson 33r's.

So to get back to the point, is it fair to say that these alleged super high performance cables may not be of much benefit if something else in the system isn't up to the task? If so, how does one know if the rest of his system is worthy of such wire? 

[Mountainjoe]

If you don't mind, I have another question...

Do you offer any system counselling, recommendations or advice as far as associated gear is concerned? Surely you must understand, just because a component is relatively very costly, that doesn't mean it is inherently objectively/subjectively better than a much less costlier component. I had a friend who by his own admission understood this with respect to his Levinson 33r's.

So to get back to the point, is it fair to say that these alleged super high performance cables may not be of much benefit if something else in the system isn't up to the task - despite it's relatively high price tag? If so, how does one know if the rest of his system is worthy of such wire?

To this and your earlier question - this is why I offer an in-home demo of MB cables as I believe it is the only way for my clients to evaluate the performance of a cable - i.e. in their own systems. I provide demo cables to clients for a period of 1-2 weeks (depending on demand) so they can live with them and get a full appreciation of what they can do in their own system.

That said, regardless of the system, IME you will always hear some benefit with MB cables, though the degree of the benefit depends on the rest of the system. Obviously there is a point where you get garbage-in, garbage-out, but I assume we are not talking about low-fi systems here 

Cheers, Joe

[Russell Dawkins]

Russell,

I am so surprised to learn that you have depended on your hearing for 45 years for your livelihood and yet if that were so, then I wonder why you can not hear the difference between cables like others can?
I mean especially since you have relied on your hearing for 45 years for your livelihood it would seem to be a 'no-brainer' for sure.
Unlike the rest of us who listen for recreation and enjoyment without depending on our hearing for our livelihood we actually can hear a difference.

So I am confused as to why you claim that there is no difference in wire performance regardless of cost? 
What am I missing? 
Because you know, that I and others do hear the difference!

For me, I come from a practical background as in 'show-me' and leave my emotions outside the door before I enter the room.
That way it comes down to the reality of is this product better, worse or the same as I have now?
Money aside.

As I mentioned several posts ago, the reason I use the term "One" is because its a pronoun in the English language.  It is a gender-neutral, indefinite pronoun, meaning roughly "a person".  Simple huh?
Especially when one has proper and correct command of the English language.

So as I was saying before I digressed for an clarification moment,  "one generally gets what one pays for"
And in this case MasterBuilt cables outperform all others but at a higher price, right?

That my friend is then up to you to decide if you want to pay the 'freight' or pass and know that you could have better if only you could affort to pay more, simple huh?

I guess when one pays that kind of money in one's pursuit of sonic perfection, one has elevated oneself socially to the point that one can start throwing "ones" around, and does.

"One can lead a horse to water but one can not make it drink", eh?

Give me a break.

Here's something to consider: I never said I couldn't hear a difference between cables, did I? One seems to have missed that.

My microphone cables cost me $10 USD a foot in 1990 dollars, as did all my analog interconnects in my studio. By pro standards of the time I was nuts and looked at sideways, but I did it because I could hear the difference.

What I am arguing about is the wisdom of spilling $7500 big ones on speaker cable instead of buying, say, better speakers—or positioning your speakers better in your listening room. I see you have yours firing straight ahead; almost never optimum under any circumstances.

[Wind Chaser]

Thanks Joe,

I wouldn't buy anything without the assurance of a satisfaction money back guarantee, but that still doesn't answer the issue of guidance in terms of addressing system handicaps. At this point I'm not ready to commit to such cables. Some people think as a matter of principle I've already gone too far off the insane deep end with the thousands of dollars I've spent on my current cables.