[Danny Richie]

I'm interested in the possible configurations for these.  Would you need mate it with a couple of M165NQs or M165s like in the X-Oticas for higher output?  I would love a slim Super V like speaker with 3 8" servos in a h-frame right below one of these coaxials.

This new driver will open up a lot of possibilities. I have a lot in mind.

[jtwrace]

This new driver will open up a lot of possibilities. I have a lot in mind.

Will it be for an OB design? 

[Danny Richie]

Will it be for an OB design?

I have had this first sample made with a .57 Qts so that it will work well in an open baffle or sealed box design. And it is more of a mid-bass driver than a woofer.

[persisting1]

Don't know what you've got planned for it, but I could see a very wide market for a smaller, cheaper version of the V series using the 8" servos.

I was thinking the same thing 

[Folsom]

Since this thread is about our hosts efforts to bring a new coax to the market, I'd bet it's going to be a paper cone driver.  I've never known Danny to sing many praises of metal cones- or metal baskets either.

Yes but I'd be very interested to hear what drivers designed by Danny that were made of alternative materials, with their downfalls, would sound like. If they can already sound good from others, I imagine Danny could do them some favors.

[JLM]

I have had this first sample made with a .57 Qts so that it will work well in an open baffle or sealed box design. And it is more of a mid-bass driver than a woofer.

Isn't Qts = 0.57 a bit low for open baffle?  Should work well for any cabinet design I can think of sans horns.

[DS-21]

I'll take a pic of mine, it looks more than just a little similar.

Trust us, the Seas part is nothing like the TAD/Pioneer CST drivers in design or sound.

[Folsom]

Isn't Qts = 0.57 a bit low for open baffle?  Should work well for any cabinet design I can think of sans horns.

Yes and no, it depends on how low you want it to play.

[Danny Richie]

Isn't Qts = 0.57 a bit low for open baffle?  Should work well for any cabinet design I can think of sans horns.

Not if used with a high pass filter.

[Jonathon Janusz]

Isn't Qts = 0.57 a bit low for open baffle?  Should work well for any cabinet design I can think of sans horns.

Not if used with a high pass filter.

Which I presume is also done to minimize the movement of the cone and improving its function as a waveguide for the tweeter?  Come to think of it, won't this project if everything goes according to plan allow for that tweeter to be crossed even lower than it does in your designs now?

Thanks for the additional info, Danny!  Another question - rough target efficiency?  I'm guessing you can build the cone driver to get more than the M165NQ by offloading the low frequency output by design?

[Danny Richie]

Which I presume is also done to minimize the movement of the cone and improving its function as a waveguide for the tweeter?  Come to think of it, won't this project if everything goes according to plan allow for that tweeter to be crossed even lower than it does in your designs now?

It might reduce the crossover point slightly.

Thanks for the additional info, Danny!  Another question - rough target efficiency?  I'm guessing you can build the cone driver to get more than the M165NQ by offloading the low frequency output by design?

The target was to get good output into the low 90db range, but this first sample only made it up to about 89db in usable range at the woofer end.

We'll see.

[DaveC113]

Trust us, the Seas part is nothing like the TAD/Pioneer CST drivers in design or sound.

I have two sitting right in front of me, they look exactly the same except for the tweeter...

[Folsom]

It's highly likely TAD contracts out for drivers. That doesn't mean those speakers are anything alike except in basic form. They may be ordering VERY different motors etc.

[DaveC113]

Sorry, my last post on the Seas... overall diameter and bolt hole diameter are about 2-3 mm larger on the TAD driver, but all details of look are identical except for the tweeter. Of course I can't say for sure but it's likely this is some version of the TAD magnesium cone CST driver. The tweeter probably isn't as good though. It seems reasonable TAD worked with an existing driver company to make their drivers, if so, this is surely the one.

On the mag cones being bad, I'm pretty happy with mine, it's very transparent and resolving. Hard coned drivers seem like they can produce good results, better in some ways... just not as easily. Paper can also make some things sound more realistic though, I prefer it overall.

[DS-21]

I have two sitting right in front of me, they look exactly the same except for the tweeter...

And the motor, of course. That's kind of an important part of a drive-unit. (In addition to being obviously different visually, I believe the Seas unit has two magnets; the TAD-Pioneer units drive both coils using one magnet.) Not to mention that one of the reasons I don't consider the Seas unit to be in the same league as the TAD-Pioneer units, or the KEF Uni-Q's, is the poor mouth termination for the tweeter.

[DaveC113]

And the motor, of course. That's kind of an important part of a drive-unit. (In addition to being obviously different visually, I believe the Seas unit has two magnets; the TAD-Pioneer units drive both coils using one magnet.) Not to mention that one of the reasons I don't consider the Seas unit to be in the same league as the TAD-Pioneer units, or the KEF Uni-Q's, is the poor mouth termination for the tweeter.

Sure, you are right about the motor and tweeter. Besides the tweeter, looking at it from the outside it's exactly the same. I'd guess this is either the driver the TAD unit is derived from or vice versa. Just an interesting observation, sorry for the thread-jack Danny. 

[maty]

Why aren't coaxial speakers more popular?

-> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/172478-why-arent-coaxial-speakers-more-popular.html

[sfdoddsy]

As good as those driver are, I'd still take the planar magnetic drivers from BG in an open baffle configuration over them in a flash.

Interestingly enough, I have been able do that exact comparison.

I have a set of the Seas C18s in my living room system running in an open baffle with a passive crossover between tweeter and mids, and an active xover to sealed boundary woofers at 250Hz (a bit like Lyngdorf speakers).

I also have a BG Neo10 and Neo3 based full range fully active full dipole system (with Peerless SLS10 woofers) in a dedicated room downstairs.

Naturally, in the interests of science, I built a baffle for the Neo10s and Neo3s and hooked them up for a direct comparison to the Seas coax system. I tried them both with passive crossovers like the coaxes, and fully active. Xover was 4K passive and 3K active.

The BGs are dipole all the way up, the Seas is open baffle, but obviously not dipole above the crossover point.

The baffle I built for the BGs was a tapered one to maintain dipoleness as high as possible.

Both systems sound very good. 

I agree with the comments here that the Neo10 is close to being top of the heap for midranges. It is certainly top of the heap for dipole midranges. I'm not as convinced with the Neo3 dipole, but it still sounds awfully nice.

The Seas C18 (as you'd expect for the price) is also pretty darn good. The woofer is of similar quality to Seas W22 I used to have in my Orions, and the tweeter remarkably good for a coax.

In pure sound quality terms I would give the edge to the BG combo. A bit clearer and I just like the sound of dipole tweeters.

However, the Seas was close, and notably better in coherence and soundstaging. The trick, I'm sure, is the superb horizontal and vertical dispersion.

The room they are in is dedicated to looks not sound. As a result the Seas are too far apart, mounted too high, too separated from the woofers and too close to a wall.

Yet they sound good everywhere you sit. Or in my case slump.

When fully reclined on the lounge, the tweeters are about a metre above my ears.

So for ultimate sound quality, the BGs are a bit better if you are prepared to fit in with their strengths. But the Seas coax sound better (in this room) in more places.

[Danny Richie]

sfdoddsy,

I think your application leaves a lot on the table. There is some capability there you have yet to tap into .

[sfdoddsy]

Silly me. I'd forgotten how pointless it is posting any opinion here which diverges even slightly from your own.