[kingdeezie]

Do some research on the history of the psychiatry profession and the evil practices they have committed throughout the world. Start with the Nazi experiments, then read about the Russian experiments, then go to America and read about the experiments done in sanitariums and mental health hospitals. Then read how the psychiatric profession created a problem called ADD so drug companies could make a fortune by facilitating drug-dependency in children and onward into adulthood. Tons of books have been written about this topic.

You mentioned that psychiatry has made major advancements in the treatment of severe depression, OCD, manic depression, severe anxiety, etc. The "advancements" are drug-related, not outcome related. Drugs don't cure, nor do they address the cause; they merely mask symptoms and create new ones. Likewise in the medical field, in general. We've made tremendous technological advancements in medicine over the past two decades, but our overall health is much worse than it was 20 years ago.

You ever hear of psychiatrists talking about ways to prevent mental illness? No, because they don't know the cause, so they guess at the treatment, and sometimes do more harm than good. That's exactly what Dr. Amen admitted to doing before he came across the use of PET scans.

First off, nice straw man argument to start off with.

You want to condemn entire practices of the many, because of the misapplication of the few? Throughout history, people have used all sorts of professions, skills, and knowledge to destroy and hurt one another. Sometimes nefariously, and sometimes because they didn't know any better.

People have used engineering, chemistry, microbiology, etc, etc to create instruments of destruction. Should we condemn those professions as well?

Its clear from your rant, that you don't work in medicine, or know much about it, other then what you read on the internet. Healthcare, especially mental healthcare, is not as cut and dry as you would like to believe. 

Yes, we are unhealthy as a population now, but that is, quite often, from personal lifestyle choices. You can't drive your car into a river, and then blame the mechanic because its not working right anymore. Personal culpability plays into overall health.

Just because we don't understand something completely, doesn't mean we should ignore it. Mental healthcare is extremely difficult, because its quite often, not the result of a definitive anatomical indicator. Its not like a cancerous tumor, or coronary artery disease, or pneumonia. Its trying to identify why a particular person's perceptions are different, and how do we even being to measure that, when it varies person to person? The only thing that is universally applicable in mental health, seems to be the symptoms, and not always the cause.

Have you ever met anyone with a serious mental illness? What is your suggestion to them? "We don't know why you feel this way, so tough shit?" Do you honestly not know that medicine keeps a lot of these people alive and grounded? Should we not have made that progress?

Do you know that in all things, there are no absolutes? Regardless of the best science, the best testing, and the best treatment, some afflictions, physical and/or mental, are incurable.

A lot of medicine is based on improving the quality of a patient's life, and not on curing what can't be cured.

That doesn't mean there hasn't been progress made, because human health is not always a straight line race. There is no point A to conclusion B in certain scenarios.

Say what you want, but there are people walking around today, functional, who would have otherwise 30, 40, 50 years ago, been either cast out, homeless, imprisoned, or locked in a mental institution and forgotten.

All because advancements in psychiatry, and psychiatric medicine.

If Amen's work leads to even better success, and more advancement, that is awesome. But, to claim the entire field of mental health, has been, to this point rubbish, is ludicrous. Especially, since Amen's work, is just building on the groundwork that has already been laid. 





 

[Early B.]

Its clear from your rant, that you don't work in medicine, or know much about it, other then what you read on the internet.   

FWIW -- I've been working in health care for the past 25 years and have a graduate degree in it. I'm not a clinician, but I know a lot more about health care than what I've read on the internet.
 
You're obviously making a lot of assumptions about me (hmmm... you're guessing -- have you ever considered a career in psychiatry? ).

Now, with that being said, I merely expounded on what one of the most popular psychiatrists on the planet said about his own profession -- which is quite true and obvious, but rarely said out loud -- that it's all guesswork. Then I basically said that guessing is unscientific. That's also true. Then I suggested that you do some research on psychiatry as a profession, then we can have a more useful dialogue about it.

You asked if I ever met anyone with a serious mental illness. Well, my sister suffers from a serious mental illness and my best friend's wife is bi-polar. And believe it or not, just yesterday, I encouraged one of my associates to go see a psychiatrist, primarily for a diagnosis to get us in the ballpark for pursuing alternative treatment. She's not gonna do the meds. Yes, some people with serious mental illness NEED to be medicated and that's a good thing, but it's a band-aid approach that's not really helping them resolve their illness. That was my point.

[werd]

First off, nice straw man argument to start off with.

You want to condemn entire practices of the many, because of the misapplication of the few? Throughout history, people have used all sorts of professions, skills, and knowledge to destroy and hurt one another. Sometimes nefariously, and sometimes because they didn't know any better.

People have used engineering, chemistry, microbiology, etc, etc to create instruments of destruction. Should we condemn those professions as well?

Its clear from your rant, that you don't work in medicine, or know much about it, other then what you read on the internet. Healthcare, especially mental healthcare, is not as cut and dry as you would like to believe. 

Yes, we are unhealthy as a population now, but that is, quite often, from personal lifestyle choices. You can't drive your car into a river, and then blame the mechanic because its not working right anymore. Personal culpability plays into overall health.

Just because we don't understand something completely, doesn't mean we should ignore it. Mental healthcare is extremely difficult, because its quite often, not the result of a definitive anatomical indicator. Its not like a cancerous tumor, or coronary artery disease, or pneumonia. Its trying to identify why a particular person's perceptions are different, and how do we even being to measure that, when it varies person to person? The only thing that is universally applicable in mental health, seems to be the symptoms, and not always the cause.

Have you ever met anyone with a serious mental illness? What is your suggestion to them? "We don't know why you feel this way, so tough shit?" Do you honestly not know that medicine keeps a lot of these people alive and grounded? Should we not have made that progress?

Do you know that in all things, there are no absolutes? Regardless of the best science, the best testing, and the best treatment, some afflictions, physical and/or mental, are incurable.

A lot of medicine is based on improving the quality of a patient's life, and not on curing what can't be cured.

That doesn't mean there hasn't been progress made, because human health is not always a straight line race. There is no point A to conclusion B in certain scenarios.

Say what you want, but there are people walking around today, functional, who would have otherwise 30, 40, 50 years ago, been either cast out, homeless, imprisoned, or locked in a mental institution and forgotten.

All because advancements in psychiatry, and psychiatric medicine.

If Amen's work leads to even better success, and more advancement, that is awesome. But, to claim the entire field of mental health, has been, to this point rubbish, is ludicrous. Especially, since Amen's work, is just building on the groundwork that has already been laid.

I agree with all the above. I suffered from severe panic attacks. Real life deabilitating anxiety attacks. It was all heavy anxiety and I needed treatment. My doctor, not a psychiatrist, started me on a anti depressant (Citalopram) lowest dose. It did not treat my anxiety like Lorazepam could. I still had the anxiety and the attacks. But it was up to me to use the mental skills to overcome the attack. The anti depressant took the edge off the attack but it was still there. (BTW they found out that Citalopram worked better for anxiety than depression which it was originally meant for). But I had to do it, not my doctor, I had to develop the skills to thwart the attack which I knew was there but not as severe.  There was no way I could start talking myself out of a full blown anxiety attack with out the meds. It was just too severe and too fast. Those meds helped me fight through it and now I suffer small ones but nothing near like before and I am off the meds.  I can go weeks with out one unlike before which was becoming daily. 

It is safe to say often enough, a psychiatrist is not going to help anybody that will not help themselves.

I think the problem is people are over medicated. If I was over medicated I would not have had the attacks and never been able to develop the skills to thwart the attack. Of course I would come off the meds and the anxiety would continue like before. 

[macrojack]

Thanks, Werd. Nothing like a first person account to override posturing and speculation. I'm glad to read that you have found relief. BTW, aren't you in law enforcement? If so, I can imagine that environment might cause some anxiety and/or panic.
For the record, I may have started this debate over the merits of AMEN's work. If so, that was not my intent. I am not qualified to judge the merits of the product he is pushing. I can, however, (and did) comment on the huckster overtones in his presentation. His scans have a brand name which he repeated over and over again, like Oxyclean. He also made a lot of noise about the failings of any approach that does not benefit from the use of his product.
Maybe what he is pushing is a beautiful thing that will put an end to mass shootings and racism and other fear induced social ills. Maybe it will accomplish nothing more than lining his pockets. Maybe it will do nothing more than start arguments on the internet. In the end, I don't expect it to do anything for me or to me.
P.S. His illustrations appeared simplistic and fatuous to me. Does a brain look like any of those pictures? Why is this stuff being generated for mass consumption? Seems to me that this type of thing would (maybe should) be collegial, not dumbed down for mass consumption as he has done in this presentation. Maybe he was just playing for funding. Is TED about venture capital?

[geowak]

Plenty of opinions, great sharing of knowledge but I hope it all stays civil. I think any approach to mental health care, or getting one's brain healthy that takes into account we may not need all the pharmaceutical drugs we are prescribed is a step in the right direction. Let's face it, in America, there is a senior drug problem. I go out on a limb and call it "very serious". Not unlike meth and heroin, many seniors are getting addicted to pain and sleep meds. At least Dr Amen is looking towards a different path toward actually getting to the root of a problem and looking at treatment options for the actual condition. Also the idea that one's diet and physical activity can play a large part in the health of the brain is an idea that I had not known too much about. There are other videos of Dr Amen which are quite fascinating.

[werd]

Thanks, Werd. Nothing like a first person account to override posturing and speculation. I'm glad to read that you have found relief. BTW, aren't you in law enforcement? If so, I can imagine that environment might cause some anxiety and/or panic.
For the record, I may have started this debate over the merits of AMEN's work. If so, that was not my intent. I am not qualified to judge the merits of the product he is pushing. I can, however, (and did) comment on the huckster overtones in his presentation. His scans have a brand name which he repeated over and over again, like Oxyclean. He also made a lot of noise about the failings of any approach that does not benefit from the use of his product.
Maybe what he is pushing is a beautiful thing that will put an end to mass shootings and racism and other fear induced social ills. Maybe it will accomplish nothing more than lining his pockets. Maybe it will do nothing more than start arguments on the internet. In the end, I don't expect it to do anything for me or to me.
P.S. His illustrations appeared simplistic and fatuous to me. Does a brain look like any of those pictures? Why is this stuff being generated for mass consumption? Seems to me that this type of thing would (maybe should) be collegial, not dumbed down for mass consumption as he has done in this presentation. Maybe he was just playing for funding. Is TED about venture capital?

Thanks MacroJack, I appreciate the support. No I am not in law enforcement. I work for the railway.

 

[Pneumonic]

For brain health, I supplement my diet with MCT's, derived from coconut and palm kernel oils, along with BHB salts, in order to supply my brain with an alternate fuel source (ketones) than carbs/sugar.

[ctviggen]

For brain health, I supplement my diet with MCT's, derived from coconut and palm kernel oils, along with BHB salts, in order to supply my brain with an alternate fuel source (ketones) than carbs/sugar.

Do you also track your ketones?  Are you on a ketotic diet?  I believe the brain still needs glucose, but that's easy to get via gluconeogenisis.  Do you perform intermittent fasting?

I've just bought a blood testing meter that tests both blood glucose and ketones.  I've only started using it, though, so only have a few days of data. 

[Pneumonic]

Do you also track your ketones?  Are you on a ketotic diet?  I believe the brain still needs glucose, but that's easy to get via gluconeogenisis.  Do you perform intermittent fasting?

I've just bought a blood testing meter that tests both blood glucose and ketones.  I've only started using it, though, so only have a few days of data.

Awesome, a fellow ketosis believer.

Yes to all your questions. In fact, I am in nutritional ketosis as we speak

For the last 5 years I have water fasted twice a year. My longest, water only fast, has been 11 days.

I use a breath analyzer made by Ketonix.

[ctviggen]

That's a long time.  I've had fasts of 4.5, 5, and 5.5 days, plus many of 3 days. This week, I'll fast from Sunday night to Tuesday at lunch (rarely eat breakfast any more), Tuesday night to Thursday at lunch and Thursday night to Friday at dinner.  I'm trying to mix things up while still having dinner with the kids at least a few times a week.  I will also "splurge" at times.  We're going on vacation next week, for instance, and I'll eat relatively freely (still try to avoid most carbs, like bread, but it's difficult to stay in ketosis while traveling).  When I come back, I'll probably fast for several days. 

Supposedly, if you're in long term ketosis, the type of ketone that the breath analyzer tests for goes to zero, but you'll still be in ketosis.  The blood meter works better, but the strips are expensive (the meter is cheap). 

Since going low carb and adding intermittent fasting to that, I've gone from 43 inch pants to 36, increased my HDL, lowered my triglycerides, etc.

[twitch54]

is my brain healthy ........ no, I'm an audiophile ......

[bummrush]

 From above .Questions on Jeopardy have definitely gotten essier. I remember not that many years ago,there could be many stretches where i had no idea of a what answers would be correct. Now its almost opposite, with not a whole bunch that i might not know super fast but still can stay ahead of the game.

[Pneumonic]

That's a long time.  I've had fasts of 4.5, 5, and 5.5 days, plus many of 3 days. This week, I'll fast from Sunday night to Tuesday at lunch (rarely eat breakfast any more), Tuesday night to Thursday at lunch and Thursday night to Friday at dinner.  I'm trying to mix things up while still having dinner with the kids at least a few times a week.  I will also "splurge" at times.  We're going on vacation next week, for instance, and I'll eat relatively freely (still try to avoid most carbs, like bread, but it's difficult to stay in ketosis while traveling).  When I come back, I'll probably fast for several days. 

Supposedly, if you're in long term ketosis, the type of ketone that the breath analyzer tests for goes to zero, but you'll still be in ketosis.  The blood meter works better, but the strips are expensive (the meter is cheap). 

Since going low carb and adding intermittent fasting to that, I've gone from 43 inch pants to 36, increased my HDL, lowered my triglycerides, etc.

Congrats, those are nice # reductions.

When I fast to enter into endogenous ketosis I no longer bother measuring my ketone levels since I know it takes me ~ 72 hours to enter and that I am very well adapted thereafter. I only ever bother measuring when consuming MCT oil/BHB salts to elevate exogenous ketone levels which, I have been doing at least once a week, for a couple of years now. The rest of my diet lifestyle is typically spent in a balanced macro state of 5 meals/day..