Hello from Carlos in the UK - A growing desktop system

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Zero

Re: Hello from Carlos in the UK - A growing desktop system
« Reply #20 on: 1 Mar 2016, 04:14 pm »
Hey Carlos,

I run a little desktop rig myself.  I hate to admit it, but this 'secondary' system gets more use than my main rig.   :lol: :lol:

Gratz' on the T-Zero.  That's a wickedly good lil' sub. 

Tomy2Tone

Re: Hello from Carlos in the UK - A growing desktop system
« Reply #21 on: 1 Mar 2016, 04:30 pm »
Hey Carlos,

I've been wanting to try a tubed amp for my desktop but haven't narrowed it down as to which one. Have you or anyone heard the Nappa Acoustics integrated? I wonder how it compares to the Miniwatt S1...


http://www.napaacoustic.com/E_Product_NA_208A.html

RootScript

Re: Hello from Carlos in the UK - A growing desktop system
« Reply #22 on: 1 Mar 2016, 04:31 pm »
Hello JLM
Belated welcome (your thread probably came in during a busy time and got buried).

I've been running near-field (in-room) for 10+ years.  Looks like you have a good sized desk facing near a wall.  Like your collection of small amps.  Have you ever considered headphones?
I might need to save the headphones for when I'm travelling, 'the wife' has a hard enough time talking to me already  :nono:

Quote
Have you considered active monitors?  (Your old A2+ are powered speakers, that's different.)  Active speakers use one channel of amplification per driver and a low voltage crossover upstream of the amps.  The advantages of active design are huge:  cheaper/smaller, more coherent (you don't hear separate woofer/tweeter), more dynamic, very flat frequency response, and unbelievably deep/full bass.  The recording/mixing professionals use them in very similar settings.  But for their work they need a very analytical/dry/revealing presentation that most would not find enjoyable for home entertainment.  But home versions are out there.  Audiostream.com and soundonsound.com are good places to start looking.

With active speakers you need only a source (computer with DAC), and a volume control (some actives have a volume control on the front so even that can be eliminated).  In fact, there are a few active speakers that include a DAC (but as fast as DAC technology is changing I wouldn't go that far).  How's the Schiit preamp working for you?  I looked into them but determined that they're really primarily designed for headphone use.  But I'd highly recommend a Bi-Frost multi-bit for a reasonably priced system running single-ended (RCA) interconnects.

I like the Schiit Vali 2 preamp, it is OK for the money.  I think you are right in thinking that it is aimed for headphone use.  I tried using it as a 'master volume control (DAC at full volume, and tube amp at full volume), with the Schiit Vali2 inbetween the DAC & tube amp, and in that respect it worked well.  I removed the Schiit Vali 2 preamp from my system as I didn't like the 'crackle & pop' sounds, when it switched on (there doesn't seem to be any 'soft start' or auto muting of the output on start up, and these noises worried me enough to remove it).  It is fairy well made, so I might have a use for it with some different tubes (I've seen a lot of recommendation for Philips tubes that work well); I will make a decision after I upgrade my DAC to an ESS Sabre 9018 type.  I'm trying to go for the clean analytical sound on my source, as I have the sub & tube amps to warm & balance things out (well that is the plan i have in my head).

Yes, I started looking for a pair of Genelec speakers (recording studio type of active speaker with some really nice isopods included), the smallest I considered for desktop were the Genelec 8010A - link http://www.genelec.com/studio-monitors/8000-series-studio-monitors/8010a-studio-monitor
but settled on the cheaper A2+ (home user market) as a starter (nice powered small speakers with the DAC built in).  Looking back, the Genelecs were twice the price of the A2+, but I wish I had bought them.  I quickly grew out of the A2+ and was lucky to find a pair of Bowers & Wilkins XT2 passive speakers at a massive discount, which was a significant step up foe me:



At that point I had a big smile on my face every time I re-listened to my music collection.  I was lucky again that a friend of mine recommended looking to REL Acoustics for a bass system (I almost fell off my chair when I saw their prices  :oops: ), apparently they make some of the best subs and have a unique feature which is their 'Higher Level Connection:  From the REL a Neutrik Speakon connection that connects to your speaker's or amp's existing speaker terminals (so they piggy back off the existing main speakers, hence the closely bound cable at one end to support the heavy weight of the cables).

I have adjusted the crossover point so that the 'bass' appears to be coming from the B&W XT2 speakers, and I am presently surprised at how 'musical' it is with the crossover set to about 85Hz.

Hey Carlos,

I run a little desktop rig myself.  I hate to admit it, but this 'secondary' system gets more use than my main rig.   :lol: :lol:

Gratz' on the T-Zero.  That's a wickedly good lil' sub.

Hi Zero, yeah the REL has been the biggest upgrade (it made the biggest difference to sound),  I think the reason the sub is so good is that REL Acoustics only make subs and nothing else.  I believe they are made in Wales.   This little sub punches way above its weight, I think I'd have to spend a considerable amount more to get any improvement.  It is refined, but very good bang for buck, and really suited to people that don't have a dedicated 'sub out'.
It is almost like the REL was built for my setup, it is recommended that it should be behind the main speakers positioned a few inches away from the walls, in the corner, which by chance is exactly the space I have.  I would really recommend getting an audition of a REL sub if you get a chance (I was 'lucky' again to get one a a huge discount), the higher level connection blends seamlessly and really adds emphasis & clarity to the mid and high end sounds (it is funny how the mind works)

Quote
Did you have power aberrations?  I find they are very localized and personally have never had a need for AC regeneration/etc.  And other than tidying up, why are you bundling your cables together?  Most worry about EMI/RF leakage/shielding issues between cabling if close by and especially if they are paralleling.
I had trouble with strange noises, when certain LED lights, dimmer switches etc.. were used, so thought it best to isolate the power supply to my audio equipment.  It worked out fine and since have not had any problems.  The AG500 AC regenerator was about £250 so it is pretty reasonable for what it does.

Yes the bundling was due to the cables being so heavy, the photo above were just the temporary bindings so that I could work with the larger gauge wires; I have since tested the cables work & have just added aluminium foil and copper braid to fix any shielding issues at the 'main' binding point.  THANKS for the reminder about "bundling your cables together", I probably might have 'forgotten' to do the extra hours worth of shield.



The Van damme black series UPOFC cable is seriously heavy, and in reality only needs to behave like a interconnect because of the 'higher level' connection, but better to over do it and shield anyway.

btw. JLM & Zero, THANKS for all the advice, your help is very much appreciated, and it's what makes this forum such a good place.
I hope this thread is useful as an example of how I've started with nothing, and built up my system little by little.  I'm sure that there might be 'better' setups, but this is what I have based on my budget & my luck in finding good deals that get me 80% of the way to a reasonable desktop system.
« Last Edit: 1 Mar 2016, 09:17 pm by RootScript »

RootScript

Re: Hello from Carlos in the UK - A growing desktop system
« Reply #23 on: 1 Mar 2016, 05:02 pm »
Hey Carlos,

I've been wanting to try a tubed amp for my desktop but haven't narrowed it down as to which one. Have you or anyone heard the Nappa Acoustics integrated? I wonder how it compares to the Miniwatt S1...

http://www.napaacoustic.com/E_Product_NA_208A.html
Hi Tomy, for the money of the Nappa I probably might try something else, I don't know anyone with that amp & haven't found many threads about it, so personally I wouldn't.  It might be a nice amp, but I have no experience of it, and maybe I'm a little sceptical of hybrid tube amps with bluetooth built in (it sounds alarm bells for me).  Best to google and check the forums for reviews of it by actual users.

As your first desktop tube amp the MiniWatt just cannot be bettered at the price & punches way above it's weight.  I have opened them up and was happy to find Nichimon & Rubycon capacitors and decent transformers too.  I think where you will have the most fun (and probably spend most of money on) is tube rolling; some good tube brands that I have tried (I have tried nearly all the 6AK5 manufacturers) are Telefunken for clarity, and Tung-Sol for warm :)  It is good to look at tube recommendations on the forums for your specific amp, saves a lot of wasted money.
The MiniWatt is a really well made, inexpensive, good sounding stepping stone into tube amps.

The 'new' version of the MiniWatt is available on MassDrop at a good discount (3 days left), at that price I would really recommend it WITH the right speakers, (about 90dB + speakers would be best).  It is perfect for a nearfield setup, as long as you upgrade the tubes.  Here is a link to the current group buy on MassDrop: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/appj-mini2013-6j1-6p1


A lot of your decision may depend on what equipment you have already & whether you will use headphones or speakers, whether you want to fill a room at 'loud' levels or whether you enjoy listening at reasonable (sensible levels) with your speakers fairly close. Also important is what you are using as your source, is it a computer based setup with a DAC, or do you have dedicated components CD , turnable, music server or player?  A low powered tube amp with 3.5w per channel will compete well with solid state amps of high wattage; a few good clean watts with some sensitive speakers is great for a desktop setup & offers you the ability to change tubes if you want to try a different 'sound'.
« Last Edit: 1 Mar 2016, 07:13 pm by RootScript »

Tomy2Tone

Re: Hello from Carlos in the UK - A growing desktop system
« Reply #24 on: 1 Mar 2016, 09:01 pm »
Thanks for the reply Carlos!

I was going to mention my speaker monitors are from Nappa Acoustics and are 6ohm and 86db so their amp is specifically made for them but like you said there isn't much on the net as far as user reviews or feedback. I'm using an ifi dac feeding a cheap Lepai tripath amp and it sounds good but have always wanted to try a small tube amp.

I use the Nappa speakers at work at my desk and have them crossed over to a sub so I'm wondering if the miniwatt s1 will work since I'm not pushing them hard. Amazon has a miniwatt  for $140 so I may just try it and see.

RootScript

Re: Hello from Carlos in the UK - A growing desktop system
« Reply #25 on: 11 Mar 2016, 04:04 pm »
How's the Schiit preamp working for you?  I looked into them but determined that they're really primarily designed for headphone use.  But I'd highly recommend a Bi-Frost multi-bit for a reasonably priced system running single-ended (RCA) interconnects.

Did you have power aberrations?  I find they are very localized and personally have never had a need for AC regeneration/etc.  And other than tidying up, why are you bundling your cables together?  Most worry about EMI/RF leakage/shielding issues between cabling if close by and especially if they are paralleling.

My M8 DAC just arrived, it is better detailed than my old D1 DAC, and the soundstage is more defined.  It's a tiny little thing:

I put the Schiit Vali 2 back in now; I previously removed it as I found it seemed to add 'too much boom' to the lo/mid range.
I have just updated my speaker cables, and now everything is perfectly detailed, but the nautilus tweeters are a little to intense, so I put the Schiit back to try balance it out (I am temporarily not using my REL sub, as I need to find some decent 'stackable banana plugs').

In the long term I will put the REL sub back in & remove the Vali 2.  The Vali 2 is a nice & cheap tube preamp, that is useful to have around (I hope they release a Vali 3 with a bypass switch, and MORE tubes).  The power supply (wal wart) is interesting as it supplies 2 different AC voltages at the same time (through a dual connection plug), so it means the Vali housing can be small as the there are no output or power transformers in the main chassis.

I found out what was causing some of the occasional noise:  The MacMini has a fairly noisey USB system especially if you use more than one USB device.  I have ordered a split USB cable, so that after the USB device does it's initial  handshake, I can unplug the power part of the USB cable.  I'm hoping that will be the fix.
The cable looks something like this  (This is someone else's photo, I'm still waiting for it to arrive):


Hopefully a split USB will fix some of the occasional noise problems, I know the problem is with the Mac Mini/ OSX, as if I force quit & restart the Finder, the noise goes & comes back, really wierd.
I hope I don't need to get a linear power supply for my Mac, It is a shame that the quality of Apples power inside the Mac Mini is so poor.
« Last Edit: 11 Mar 2016, 06:15 pm by RootScript »