[Danny Richie]

hmmm, would the  Peerless tweeter play  much lower in a deep waveguide  (think I've seen some in a 1.5" baffle )

jay

It would. But getting someone to make them is a whole different story. I couldn't even get Peerless to make them for me. 

[drewm]

M130/T26SG  MTM(8 ohm) and TM would be great.

Just to clarify, were you thinking in a box or open baffle?

I'd like to see that MTM in a box.

[glynnw]

I'm Baaack!  Question for Danny - As you suggested, I built a pair of baffles based on the new Hawthorne speaker, crossing over to my Lowther drivers at abt 200Hz.  Indeed, just as they sit they image much better than in the 18" wide baffle and using my Omnimike program to test them

I get a smoother frequency response than before.  There is no rising top end - the Lowthers just start rolling off at about 10K.  I don't know yet if I will ever follow through and send 1 to you for your input - I really don't want to ship one of these drivers. A comment and a question.  I get a sense of "hollowness", like when some AV receivers use their Stadium mode.  This is a very mild thing - when I switch back to the 18" baffles I might hear the same.  My question - the front baffle extends to the outside of the 2 rear baffle extensions abt 1/2' on each side- will it help the imaging if I cut that bit off.  Also, with no tweeter, do they need to be this tall?
Thanks for the help - this is a lot of fun.

This has really shown me how good the dual OB subs are - they rock.  And they do vibrate - I have to use sorbothane under  the new baffle on top of them to stop a buzzing sound.

[Danny Richie]

Indeed, just as they sit they image much better than in the 18" wide baffle

I bet they do.

My question - the front baffle extends to the outside of the 2 rear baffle extensions abt 1/2' on each side- will it help the imaging if I cut that bit off.

Yep, cut it off. No need to add more surface reflections.

Also, with no tweeter, do they need to be this tall?

No need for that added surface reflection either. Cut the height down.

It might also help if the sides are angled out just a little.

This has really shown me how good the dual OB subs are - they rock.  And they do vibrate - I have to use sorbothane under  the new baffle on top of them to stop a buzzing sound.

Then line those lower sub cabinets with No Rez.

[glynnw]

Subs already have no-rez - I was probably playing at foundation shaking volume and the vibrating baffle wasn't exactly (OK - not even close) even on the bottom.  If I use these permanently I will mount them on some kind of sturdy base.

Thanks again.  Will build another pair of baffles  with your suggestions. (And this time I won't cut the speaker hole too big.)   

[devinkato]

Great thread by the way. What else would you guys like?

It's a long shot, but I'd love for GR to put out a "beginner's" speaker to compete with the Overnight Sensations that everyone is building.  The OSs are nice and affordable for people to enter the DIY market, but a bit bloated in the bass range.  Would love to hear your take on a "budget" DIY speaker.  GR really sets the benchmark in my mind for getting the midrange "right" - which seems to be so ignored nowadays.

[jazyes]

Devinkato,

If you haven't already, check out GR's X-Series kits. They are a steal at $109 a pair! You will need to make and finish your own cabinets (Danny provides the plans w/each kit). However, you can purchase finished cabinets from P.E. that work well. I have the Encore version with all the available upgrades. I've never heard the O.S. kit you referenced, but I can tell you the X-LS Encores are an audiophile monitor at a budget price. In fact, I may be doing them a disservice by using the term "budget price" since  the drivers and components are top shelf, and they outperform so many monitors priced much higher.

[mlundy57]

Devinkato,

If you haven't already, check out GR's X-Series kits. They are a steal at $109 a pair! You will need to make and finish your own cabinets (Danny provides the plans w/each kit). However, you can purchase finished cabinets from P.E. that work well. I have the Encore version with all the available upgrades. I've never heard the O.S. kit you referenced, but I can tell you the X-LS Encores are an audiophile monitor at a budget price. In fact, I may be doing them a disservice by using the term "budget price" since  the drivers and components are top shelf, and they outperform so many monitors priced much higher.

+1 

I have built a number of the X series Encore kits for myself and others.  These are fantastic speakers at shockingly low prices. And like everything DIY, the more you do for yourself the less the total cost. 

There is also the LGK 1.0 desktop monitor. At $189 these little jewels are unmatched for the desktop and even do very well in small rooms. Here's a review of them by Ron at New Record Day

https://www.newrecordday.com/gr-research-lgk/

Mike

[Danny Richie]

It's a long shot, but I'd love for GR to put out a "beginner's" speaker to compete with the Overnight Sensations that everyone is building.  The OSs are nice and affordable for people to enter the DIY market, but a bit bloated in the bass range.  Would love to hear your take on a "budget" DIY speaker.  GR really sets the benchmark in my mind for getting the midrange "right" - which seems to be so ignored nowadays.

To be honest I think I already dominate the space for budget DIY speakers.

As for the OS model you referred to I am not sure why anyone would choose to build them. The low 80db sensitivity really limits them from being used in very many applications. Then take a good look at what is really being offered. It's a metal cone woofer that is going to have some ringing and should't be played too high, but is crossed over all the way up to 3kHz. That will cause some vertical off axis cancellation too. The inductors are made with recycled Copper typically 94 to 95% actual Copper. The resistors are sand caste. I will never use those in anything. One of the capacitors is even electrolytic.

Now take the X-LS Class kit that you were referred to. Sensitivity is a solid 87db. Driver quality is very high. Crossover parts quality is very good. The crossover point is in the 2kHz region and vertical and horizontal off axis responses are very smooth. Thousands of them are out there or have been built. They were reviewed by Audioholics, Affordable Audio, Home Theater and High Fidelity, GoodSound, Tone Audio, Consumer Guide, Prillaman.net, and several others. They received two Product of the Year awards, a Best Buy award, and Budget Speaker of the Year. An upgrade for that model offered by the Skiing Ninja was also reviewed by Tone Audio. And the kit is just $109 for the pair.

[devinkato]

Sorry, I should have added form factor.  I've built 6 or 7 X-LSs for friends/family/clients so I'm extremely familiar with them as the best value in audio - period.  I would have built even more if they were a bit smaller.  Most "common-folk" are willing to give up efficiency for size.  It just pains me to see so many threads on various boards of beginners talking about how great the Overnight Sensations are, but have no idea who GR Research is. 

[Hank]

It just pains me to see so many threads on various boards of beginners talking about how great the Overnight Sensations are, but have no idea who GR Research is. 

+1

[Danny Richie]

It just pains me to see so many threads on various boards of beginners talking about how great the Overnight Sensations are, but have no idea who GR Research is.

Unfortunately I spend all my time either filling orders or doing design work. And now getting ready for a move to a new larger facility. I just don't have the ability or the resources to market myself like Parts Express does. I have had to rely on good folks like yourself to spread the word. And I do appreciate it very much. 

[drewm]

Sorry, I should have added form factor.  I've built 6 or 7 X-LSs for friends/family/clients so I'm extremely familiar with them as the best value in audio - period.  I would have built even more if they were a bit smaller.  Most "common-folk" are willing to give up efficiency for size.  It just pains me to see so many threads on various boards of beginners talking about how great the Overnight Sensations are, but have no idea who GR Research is.

It's really tough to educate consumers about speaker internals, most of them just follow the marketing dollars and advertising. Looking at amazon reviews of speakers, even the worst ones are 4+ stars because "it plays music". I do kinda get the feeling that we're in the generation of the iPod where apple headphones and crap bitrate mp3 is considered high end.

[mlundy57]

Sorry, I should have added form factor.  I've built 6 or 7 X-LSs for friends/family/clients so I'm extremely familiar with them as the best value in audio - period.  I would have built even more if they were a bit smaller.  Most "common-folk" are willing to give up efficiency for size.  It just pains me to see so many threads on various boards of beginners talking about how great the Overnight Sensations are, but have no idea who GR Research is.

if a small form factor is what you are looking for, you can't beat the LGK series of speakers. While the desktop 1.0's are the only ones listed on the website, the floor standing Skinny 6 is also available.  Here's the 1.0





Here's the Skinny 6.  They look huge in the picture but they aren't. They are only 4-1/2" wide x 41" tall x 13" deep






Here's a link to the thread on the Skinny 6 http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=135458.0

Mike

[glynnw]

I finished another pair of baffles following Danny's suggestions, cutting the height and angling the baffles.  Just retaining the simple crossover that cuts off below 200 Hz, this iteration sounds great.  I lowered the crossover to 100 Hz but neither heard nor saw on the frequency graph any difference, so I am currently staying at 200 so I can experiment with adding the 12" Tone Tubbys from the earlier baffle on the side to see if I hear a difference.  If I decide the Tone Tubby's make it all better, I think I will alter my old baffles (seen in the background of the new completed unit) using the new technique, even though one of my goals was to reduce the footprint of the speakers.  I guess sound wins out over style.  Not only is the imaging improved, there is a greater sense of musicians in the room - the depth is definitely more noticeable.

While working with these new baffles I have also replaced 5 wall warts with linear power supplies and this, too, has made a noticeable improvement.  There is no way to tell if this change is responsible for some of the improvement I am hearing 'cause I ain't goin' back to what I had.  (sorry - I lapse into my Southern drawl on occasion).  I know the new power supply on the DSpeaker unit I use on the subs has improved the tunefulness of the bass.  Overall a very satisfactory outcome to this experiment.  I have spent much of the last 48 hours playing song after song and enjoying the improvements.  Thanks to Danny for continuing to share his abilities with all of us here at Audio Circle.

[glynnw]

Here is what is probably my final entry for this thread.  I started wanting to cut my footprint of speakers in the room by making a smaller baffle for the Lowthers and omitting the Tone Tubbys that I have been using to reinforce the 100-200 Hz region as well as add a bit of warmth to the sound.  After a bit of comparison listening I decided to keep the Tone Tubbys in the mix and alter the tops of my open baffles to follow Danny's design tips and admittedly using the new Hawthorne monitor open baffle speaker as a guide to dimensions for an 8" driver.  Also added No-Rez to the inside of each of the large panels.  Sound is improved- imaging , which I thought was good, just became a bit more solid, giving a better sense of the bodies in space that made the sound- simply more realistic.  The slight haze you may see over the subs drivers and the Tone Tubby is wire screening I am using to kitty-proof everything.  Have a new 3 month old kitten that recognizes no boundaries as of yet.  Love the sound - still wish it was smaller - and I really think the new speaker is dreadfully ugly.  May cut down the tops a bit, but still considering adding tweeters, so keeping the extra real estate for now.

[gab]

Glynn

why not try one more thing. Build a Linkwitz bridge for your H frames:

http://www.ohio.edu/people/schneidw/audio/images/lx521_800px/lx521_cameo1_upstairs-112-800px.jpg

Ditch the Tone Tubbys and run the servos up to 250 - 300 Hz.

gab

[jparkhur]

I would agree with gab.  Run those OB subs up to 250 and it will more than compensate for the lack of umf in the FR driver.  I am currently using a similar set up with 1 GR 12 and a FR driver on top too.  Works perfect.

I had Dave over at Pi Audio build me a switchable inline xo for the amp which allowed me to play with different drivers on the top, easy to make and easy to switch out.

[glynnw]

Thanks for the suggestions - one of the main things cutting back on my desire to make new speakers and parts like Linkwitz bridge  is that I hate my cheap table saw (OK, I am afraid of it) and I just can't bring myself to buy a better one - the thrill is gone.  I may stick with something like some of Danny's new kits where the wood is available all pre-cut. And I still have the smaller cabinets made to go on the subs (or a bridge, eh?)  But for right now I am through making anything new - at least until I can clean up my shop.  At my normal work rate, that could take months.

[gab]

Thanks for the suggestions - one of the main things cutting back on my desire to make new speakers and parts like Linkwitz bridge  is that I hate my cheap table saw (OK, I am afraid of it) and I just can't bring myself to buy a better one - the thrill is gone.  I may stick with something like some of Danny's new kits where the wood is available all pre-cut. And I still have the smaller cabinets made to go on the subs (or a bridge, eh?)  But for right now I am through making anything new - at least until I can clean up my shop.  At my normal work rate, that could take months.

I hear you. But you could buy a couple pieces of the nice 8" - 10" wide select pine boards that Home Depot sells, have them cut it to the dimensions you need on their panel saws, and screw them together and then Duratex them. Just leave about 0.5" clearance around your H-frames to keep the woofers from coupling into the FR baffle.