[mresseguie]

Danny,

Is there any reason why a pair of sealed speakers couldn't be paired to the triple eight wedge OB subs? My fuzzy memory tells me it's not a problem, though perhaps not as good as OB speakers(?).

How wide can the front face of the triple eight be before loss in SQ rears its ugly head?

Regards,

Michael

[Danny Richie]

When playing a set of the Wedgies here I actually experimented with setting the plate amp on the 8" servo woofers to the highest setting so that they wouldn't play down as low. I then let a pair of triple 12" servo subs play from 25Hz and down. It was blissful.     Talk about a full range system... It was really good.

A set of sealed box servo subs could have been used as well. Or a group of the sealed box servo subs in the swarm configuration would have been good too.

When you are crossing them that low it is really easy to integrate them.

[mlundy57]

I think Michael was asking about pairing something like X-CS Encores with the triple 8 OB Wedge?

Would that work or would the Encores be better paired with the best speaker stand ever?

[Danny Richie]

I think Michael was asking about pairing something like X-CS Encores with the triple 8 OB Wedge?

Would that work or would the Encores be better paired with the best speaker stand ever?

Oh yeah, you're right. Sorry, I misread it.

You can use a sealed box speaker with the OB 8" woofers.

And yes, these stands worked great: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129161.0  Great for a small room.

[mresseguie]

Thank you for your answer, Danny and thank you, Mike, for correctly catching my meaning. 

For some reason I had been under the impression that the best speaker stand ever (BSSE) had been superseded by the 8" OB Wedge design because there were unsatisfactory issues related to the BSSE's design, or did I dream that up all by myself?

Michael

[Danny Richie]

Thank you for your answer, Danny and thank you, Mike, for correctly catching my meaning. 

For some reason I had been under the impression that the best speaker stand ever (BSSE) had been superseded by the 8" OB Wedge design because there were unsatisfactory issues related to the BSSE's design, or did I dream that up all by myself?

Michael

I am real happy with the performance of the stand version for small rooms where any high SPL levels are not required.

The Wedge version adds an additional 30% or so more output.

And then Mike built a version with two of the 12's that really kick the output level and low end extension up another level.

[mlundy57]

I look at it as two different speakers for two different uses. The BSSE is a ported sub while the Wedge is an OB sub.

The BSEE (since the open back acts like a port) could use the regular 8 Ohm non-OB version of the drivers and the HX300 amp without the open baffle shelving circuit. And because it is not OB can be placed closer to the front wall. Also, the sound is that of a ported sub rather than an OB sub.

The Wedge is OB so it needs the OB version of the drivers, the OB shelving circuit in the amp and needs to be at least 3ft from the wall. For this it rewards you with the OB bass sound.

The questions are can you mix and match? and if so, what are the results?

I have have/had all four variations here 1) non-OB top with non-OB bass; 2) OB top with non-OB bass; 3) non-OB top with OB bass and 4) OB top with OB bass. I currently have situations 1, 3 and 4 set up in different rooms.

The living room has N3TL's matched with a 12" sealed servo sub (1); my room has the Wedgies with the 12" Wedge basses (4) and my grandson's room has a pair of ported PSB Image B6's with the OB 3x8 H-Frames (3). I had situation 2 for six months after building the Wedgies before building the 3x8 H-Frames.

Personally, I prefer the sound of like with like best. If the room and usage support OB that would be my choice. If circumstances were such that OB could not be used then you wouldn't be able to mix and match anyway.  Situations 2) and 3) make sense if the room will support OB, you already have a non-OB half and your budget won't allow a full jump to OB all at once.

To my ears, when there is a mismatch part of the sound is huge and expansive while the other part is diminished. When the midrange and treble is ported (I don't have any sealed monitors right now to try it with) the bass tends to envelop the midrange and treble. Not overpower it exactly, you can dial down the subs (which I really had to do since their sensitivity is higher than the monitors) but the midrange and treble sound more like it is in a bubble with the bass surrounding it.

A similar situation exists when the midrange and treble are OB and the bass is not however the perception of the sound is different. The bass is not as expansive as the midrange/treble. Not surrounded by it like the previous situation, but more like the bass is the floor with the midrange/treble stacked on top and around the sides rather than blending as a whole.

When comparing the two mix and match scenarios, I think a non-OB servo controlled sub mated to an OB top is going to blend and sound better than a non-OB top mated to an OB sub.

I hope I am making sense here. It's hard to describe in words. When listening to the different set-ups it makes perfect sense but when I try to describe it, not so much.

Mike

[mresseguie]

Thank you, both.

I have another question (this time concerning subwoofers only) that I've been curious about for quite a while.
I know how great Jay's double 12" subs sound (H? W?) yet there was a slight null in one spot near the door. Jay had drawn my attention to it. It was not a big null, but it was noticeable.

Is it possible, preferable, or impossible to create a swarm OB subwoofer arrangement instead of relying on two stacks in the front?

I ask this because I do not have a dedicated audio room, so I must consider WAF and I know there would be serious WAF issues if I placed double or triple subs stacks beside speakers in the front. However, if I could spread the subs out tp be used as end tables or lamp stands (for example) as part of a swarm, those evil WAF issues would return to their place of slumber. 

Now, I'm envisioning something like a pair of double eights in front and single twelves in the listening space, or single 12s in front with two single 12s in the listening space - all OB subs. I know a swarm can be done with three or four F12Gs (and I already own one), but it would be pretty cool if an OB sub swarm works, too.

Thank you.

[Captainhemo]

Hey Michael , hope all is  well over there !!

I think that particular null would be hard to avoid in this room. As you know,   it's not overly large (18' x 12')  and it's totally enclosed  aside from that door .  I'll point out for others that the door is in the  rear  1/4 of the room along one of the side walls.  While the OB bass does load the room much more evenly than a conventional sealed/ported sub, it does still load the room. I'd assume what is happening there is a slight unloading in that doorway effectively creating   that little null. I could be wrong but that would be my take on it....

You can combine  the OB subs and sealed subs.... I beleive Danny used to run a couple of sealed servo subs in the rear  corners of his rooms at RMAF.
I would point out that  you can't run the  OB subs to the side of your listening postion as  there are nulls to the sides

If you decide to go with the  subs as stands and want the wedge shape, copy  Mike's  dual 12's  in the  slightly larger wedge. IIRC,  it was quite a bit deeper than the 8's but was only an inch or two wider at the front. From what mike described,  I  think youi'll be much happier with the 12's
Say hi to the  other half for me   

jay

[bdp24]

Thank you, both.

I have another question (this time concerning subwoofers only) that I've been curious about for quite a while.
I know how great Jay's double 12" subs sound (H? W?) yet there was a slight null in one spot near the door. Jay had drawn my attention to it. It was not a big null, but it was noticeable.

Is it possible, preferable, or impossible to create a swarm OB subwoofer arrangement instead of relying on two stacks in the front?

I ask this because I do not have a dedicated audio room, so I must consider WAF and I know there would be serious WAF issues if I placed double or triple subs stacks beside speakers in the front. However, if I could spread the subs out tp be used as end tables or lamp stands (for example) as part of a swarm, those evil WAF issues would return to their place of slumber. 

Now, I'm envisioning something like a pair of double eights in front and single twelves in the listening space, or single 12s in front with two single 12s in the listening space - all OB subs. I know a swarm can be done with three or four F12Gs (and I already own one), but it would be pretty cool if an OB sub swarm works, too.

Thank you.

Are you sure you would be able to locate OB subs in both: 1- Swarm locations. 2- 3 ft. from the wall they are on? The regular 12" sealed sub is more practical for a swarm set-up; the smaller the room, the more true that is. Plus, a 12" sealed sub will have considerably more output that an OB sub with a single woofer.

[mresseguie]

Hey Michael , hope all is  well over there !!

I think that particular null would be hard to avoid in this room. As you know,   it's not overly large (18' x 12')  and it's totally enclosed  aside from that door .  I'll point out for others that the door is in the  rear  1/4 of the room along one of the side walls.  While the OB bass does load the room much more evenly than a conventional sealed/ported sub, it does still load the room. I'd assume what is happening there is a slight unloading in that doorway effectively creating   that little null. I could be wrong but that would be my take on it....

You can combine  the OB subs and sealed subs.... I beleive Danny used to run a couple of sealed servo subs in the rear  corners of his rooms at RMAF.
I would point out that  you can't run the  OB subs to the side of your listening postion as  there are nulls to the sides

If you decide to go with the  subs as stands and want the wedge shape, copy  Mike's  dual 12's  in the  slightly larger wedge. IIRC,  it was quite a bit deeper than the 8's but was only an inch or two wider at the front. From what mike described,  I  think youi'll be much happier with the 12's
Say hi to the  other half for me   

jay

Thanks, Jay. I don't recall anyone talking about OB subs in other than front positions, so I thought I'd ask about it. You know, "If two are great, four must be better."

I won't need to decide until we get out of our 'mobile' mode of living. I won't know where we will end up for another year-plus. I may try for one of Danny's designs in my home in Taiwan, but I need to make certain I fully understand which is best for my needs/my room, and how best to avoid expensive shipping costs. I suspect the BSSE model will best suit my living room in Taiwan - to be determined.


"Are you sure you would be able to locate OB subs in both: 1- Swarm locations. 2- 3 ft. from the wall they are on? The regular 12" sealed sub is more practical for a swarm set-up; the smaller the room, the more true that is. Plus, a 12" sealed sub will have considerably more output that an OB sub with a single woofer."

Hi, bdp24!

I hope 2016 brings you great joy! My dream scenario for my main system will be one pair of Danny's OB subs in front with two 12" F12Gs toward the rear.

Michael

[mresseguie]

Mlundy posted, "When comparing the two mix and match scenarios, I think a non-OB servo controlled sub mated to an OB top is going to blend and sound better than a non-OB top mated to an OB sub."

I just reread your post, Mike, and the above sentence caught my eye. I have have been thinking that the most likely mixture, given my current room choices, is a blend of non-OB top with OB bottom. I have more research to do, I think. That's okay cuz I gots lotsa time. 

Michael

[Danny Richie]

You could make yourself a very effective swarm canfiguration using OB woofers. But just like the ones up front, the ones in the rear also need to be out in the room.

Like Mike said, we have used sealed servo subs in the back of our room at RMAF. And that was with OB servo subs up front. It was very effective. And we had the best bass response of any room at the show (hands down).