[Music Maven]

There are very many good speakers. It's OK to be confused.

As technology has improved in the software (the source) the speakers have had to improve also.

Personally, I think it is a mistake to pick a speaker brand (in most cases) and paint it with a wide brush, saying categorically "It's bad."

Anyway, often it's not good or bad, but a function of what we expect a speaker to do to please us (many people have different parameters) and then the listening room comes into play, the associated system, etc.

If you haven't firmed up a final system besides searching for the speakers, too much is "in flux" and the balancing act gets much more daunting.

Remember too that many of the larger companies like Paradigm have various levels of quality and categorize their speakers in different "lines" within the brand.

I was fortunate enough to have an earlier version of the Paradigm Reference Studio 100 in my home for a month or two for reasons I won't go into now, and they impressed me very much. But that's also the top of their lineup, as I recall.

You get what you pay for...sometimes.

Then again a $40,000 speaker won't quite replace a concert hall, just probably give you a better illusion.

No one speaker will ever be the ultimate solution, just the present compromise.

Jerry

[JLM]

AJM,


As your listening rooms and taste will undoubtedly change I'd stay lean and flexible in your system choices.  Don't know just how old you are or your situation, but allow me to paint a typical young audiophile scenario:

Starts in his bedroom

Goes to college (dorm room)

Moves into a small single apartment or a shared larger apartment after college.

Finally gets into a house, but it's modest and must be shared with kids.

About age 50 the kids are gone and you can have some sort of dedicated (and hopefully half way decent) listening room.  Kinda sad isn't it?


Until you reach that last audio life stage the room situations will be less than ideal (a huge factor not to be under estimated) in terms of acoustics; how loud/when you can enjoy audio; the need to use it for double duty (HT); and the equipment getting abused by "friends", kids, pets, roommates, and significant others.  Not to mention theft (especially high in dorms/apartments) and just general damage from all those moves.

If you're like most of us, your current 12 ft x 12 ft room is about the best you can expect for a long time.  And I can tell you that room, without serious help, is crummy just based on it's dimensions.  And the room is the second biggest factor, behind speakers, in determining quality of playback.  And we haven't even looked at room furnishings, layout, quality of electrical power, or equipment isolation/vibration issues.

And your sense of listening (educated hearing) has probably not fully matured yet.  Your taste are bound to keep developing and changing.  Frankly typical rock/youth popular music is the least audiophile friendly of any genre I can think of.  I recommend you attend concerts of unamplified music/voice to establish a gold standard that you can use to compare equipment against.


Spending several thousand at this stage of your life is a waste.  


Unless you got money burning a hole in your pocket, I'd recommend scaling back.  A perfect speaker for you IMO would be Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 with a Hsu sub.  Read the professional reviews.  The bang for the buck performance compared to the big guys is amazing.  The content value is extemely high.  The rough black vinyl finishs are ideal for dorms and young guy apartments.  I use them for HT and IMO they're too good for this application.  Pair these to a JVC digital receiver and Panasonic S47 universal player and you'd have a compact, killer system for under a grand that would come very close to the big boys and would be way better than any room you can expect to have in the near future.  The JVC and Panny can be upgraded for even better sound (but I'd wait until after the warrantee has expired).  And after you've taken my advice and saved thousands, please send me 10%.  

http://ascendacoustics.com/

[Inscrutable]

JLM,
Your chronology amused me as I reminisced thru each of those stages.  And the other really sad part is that as we age and get progressively closer to a decent reproduction environment (audio ... get your mind out of the gutter), our hearing is on the completely opposite downslope.  Once again, youth being wasted on the young  

You also mentioned 'educated' listening.  I seem to recall someone (maybe Stereophile?) selling an audio CD course for something like $300 that teaches you listening skills.  Does anyone recall that?  I almost bit once, but I was afraid it might actually work against me and impair my ability to just enjoy the music (apologies to Mr. Rochlin).

[Zero]

Who here remembers being young with some cash burning a hole in your pocket?  At 13/14, having even $100 to spend meant quite a few possibilities. I would consider the types of games I could buy for my Sega, or the amount of baseball cards I had to choose from, or hell, even some really cool LEGO sets.  I still get a smile to my face thinking about the exciting feeling of a guaranteed toy. My father reminded me that it would be wise to at least put half into my bank account, but at that age, blah, who had time for common sense? AJM is much in that same boat – only he has about 6-7 grand burning in his pocket and concentrates his attention to a very exotic and also a very complicated hobby.  

Another aspect that comes along with youth is impatience.  I never quite grew out of that one, but just the same, at one point or another nearly all of us could relate to wanting things “NOW”!  A lot of very sage and wise advise has been given, and one can only hope it will sink into his mind and ring in as a reminder later down the road.

While we all know the importance of experience, component matching, trusting your ears, and all that jazz, sometimes the only way to learn is through error. I am new to this audio gig, being in it for only four years. In that time I have been to hi-fi shops a little over a handful amount of times. There are just very few shops down my way forcing me to purchase my products on blind faith.  It is not the recommended way to go about putting together a system, but it is a method all the while  AJM is too young to drive and does not have the luxury of just hopping in a vehicle and taking that hour trip down to where all the hi-fi shops are.  On top of that, he wants his sound, has the money to get damned good gear, and wants to get that show on a road.  He will learn that you will never be able to hit off perfection the first, second, or even third time around. It’s the sickness of this hobby combined with the limitations of technology.

These past few posts in this thread are simply wonderful! I wish I would have had the very same words given to me when I joined this hobby (not to undermine those who have invested their time into helping me grow).  No, none of these posts will help you narrow down any long list of exotic equipment.  They offer more than that, true wisdom from those who have been there before.

Side note:  JLM, this is one of the first systems I ever recommended this kid. I still stand by it today.  So much in fact, that I now use almost exactly what you prescribed for my secondary rig.  The CBM-170’s, HSU STF-2 (crossed at 80 hz) with the JVC RX-10.  The only difference is that I am using a E-MU 1212M sound-card.  I cannot speak highly enough about the jaw dropping value this system brings to the table. This should satisfy any child (unless they have over 5 grand to spend *ahem*) or adult for that matter.  The best compliment I can give any one of those pieces is -  out of all the components I have had in this system, these are the keepers.

[vr3mxstyler2k3]

For every Definitive Technology nay-sayer in this post...

Please raise your hand for those that have *actually* taken them home and tinkered with them...  

Because they sound terrible in-store. Period.

Have a nice day.

Good Luck Jamie with the speaker purchase.

[rosconey]

they sound just as bad at home-


  bp6- sold them to the cia to use as torture devices against terrorists-

[vr3mxstyler2k3]

May you please elaborate

IE: Which speakers you tried, etc?

Or are you just being a jackass?  

[Mad DOg]

Please raise your hand for those that have *actually* taken them home and tinkered with them...  

 

DefTech BP10Bs...AWESOME for HT...haven't missed them yet for 2 channel...

[jackman]

If you are a young guy looking for a decent system without spending a lot of money, I'd suggest building a pair of BR1's from Partsexpress and teaming them up with a decent NAD amp and decent CDP or DVD player (search the archives).  Some cables from Diycable or Bolder would also be a nice addition.  

Other ideas:  smaller speakers from Omega and a low-cost tube integrated or one of the inexpensive digital amps that are coming on to the market.  Team that up with a nice CDP and maybe a sub from Rutledge Audio or that new sub kit from GR Research.  AV123 also has lots of cool gear for very good prices.  I believe they have a deal where you can get a digital receiver and 5 small speakers for around $500.  

You could put together a decent system for under a grand and build on it.  Don't blow 90% of your buget on speakers and try to team them up with bad electronics.  Also, don't try to team up cheap speakers with expensive gear and hope to get great sound.  Put together an inexpensive (but good quality) system and upgrade as you find gear that sounds better to you.  I try to avoid large, heavy speakers because they are sometimes difficult (and expensive) to ship when you decide to sell them.  

Whatever you do, have fun with it!  This is a fun hobby in which learning (sometimes from your mistakes) is half the allure!  Good luck.

J

[vr3mxstyler2k3]

Please raise your hand for those that have *actually* taken them home and tinkered with them...  

 

DefTech BP10Bs...AWESOME for HT...haven't missed them yet for 2 channel...

Well *atleast* one person has actually *tried them in-home*

However, The speakers Jamie owns are quite a step up from the BP10B in quite a few ways.

Uses a higher quality crossover, cabinet, drivers.

I own the BP10B and LOVE the sound. The Bipolar sound is great, but it is a sound you like or you dont.

[F-100]

AJM,

  Which style of music do you listen? (Rock, Rap, Pop, Jazz, etc...)
  Orginal or compress format ??

By answering the above questions, people here might able to help you narrowing down your speaker list.

[Musky_Don]

AJM,

I'm a big fan of Dynaudio.  I've owned Aud 52's, 72's, Contour 1.8mkII's. 1.1's, T2.5's (same drivers as the 1.3SE but a floorstander), and the Confidence C1's.  I've in home auditioned the Contour 1.3
mkII's, 3.4's, and Special 25's.  I've listened to most of the rest of the line in stores.  This seems like a long thread - didn't read it all - steaks on the grill.  If you have specific gear in mind or want to know how Dyn speakers may sound in different set-ups, I'd be happy to provide my perspective.  Obviously, I like the company - can be pricey but IMO delivers the goods - especially in the Contour line and up.  You can find very good deals used - most Dyn owners cherish their speakers and are customers for life.  Most are very good speakers to build a system around.  My experience is that you will be upgrading electronics many times before you exceed the capabilities of the Dyns.  Good luck.

Don

[AintJoM0mma]

AJM,

  Which style of music do you listen? (Rock, Rap, Pop, Jazz, etc...)
  Orginal or compress format ??

By answering the above questions, people here might able to help you narrowing down your speaker list.

Rock, and original. None of this "mp3" sheet    

[flintstone]

You will not want bi-polar speakers in a 12X12 room...trust me. Go with small speakers in that room...or, if you want large speakers you will need a design that needs (sounds good) against the wall.

If you don't have much money pick up a pair of Snell A's at audiogon for a large full-range type. These were designed for wall placement and can surpass or hold their own with just about any speaker ever made.

Dave

[audioslave]

AJM,
I am glad that you have it down to "3 speakers" and all, but how come we never hear that you just came back from some dealer and listened to speaker "x,y, or z" and sharing your impressions of each one. It is as if you want us to decide what your equipment is and give zero credence to your own opinion. I truly hope that you bother to go out and take the time and effort to listen to these speakers that everyone suggested. Let us know what you thought of them-I am sure all of us would be interested on what your final decision is. Remember, you are going to be the one living with them.

[AintJoM0mma]

I really think im going to go with the Dynaudio. It seems it has a big and room filling sound and can rock out, especially with a sub. I cant say the same about the the others. I was also considering Focus audio, but that seems like the sound would be too small and laid back for rock. Also the SP Tech, no one seems to have heard and also I really hate how it looks in walnut  

[mca]

AJM,
I am glad that you have it down to "3 speakers" and all, but how come we never hear that you just came back from some dealer and listened to speaker "x,y, or z" and sharing your impressions of each one

Why is there never a reply to this question?

[AintJoM0mma]

AJM,
I am glad that you have it down to "3 speakers" and all, but how come we never hear that you just came back from some dealer and listened to speaker "x,y, or z" and sharing your impressions of each one

Why is there never a reply to this question?

Because there is no question mark  

[vr3mxstyler2k3]

He Dosn't Listen to any speakers at the dealer...

Sounds as if his dealer only has B&W, Mcintosh, Definitive, Paradigm...etc etc


But - heck I've road in a car 12 hours just to hear a pair of speakers...so that isnt any excuse!  

Just do INY MINY MINEY MOE!

[PhilNYC]

I was also considering Focus audio, but that seems like the sound would be too small and laid back for rock.

I can tell you with great confidence that the Focus FS688 will not sound "too small", particularly in your 12'x12' room.  And whether they sound "laid back" or not will depend heavily on the rest of your gear...the speakers themselves are not laid back at all; the Revelator tweeter has been accused of many things, but "laid back" is not one of them.