Oppo 103 or 105

erniek · « **on:** 15 Dec 2015, 07:05 pm »

I have been considering replacing my old AMC cd player with an OPPO 103 or 105. My main objective will be music and the ability to play video concerts.
I will also be using a DAC and my question is whether or not I need to spend the increased dollars for the 105 or whether the 103 would do me just as good sound wise. I understand that if I am going only digital that the 105 may not be worth the extra dollars over the 103 since I am using an external DAC.
Input on both models is greatly appreciated.

RDavidson · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Dec 2015, 07:56 pm »

What's your external DAC?

Phil A · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Dec 2015, 08:47 pm »

Keep in mind current models are the 103, the 103D and the 105D - https://www.oppodigital.com/products.asp?cat=16

Price wise for the above models, one is talking $500, $600 and $1,300 respectively.

The 103D and 105D have the same video.

S Clark · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Dec 2015, 09:59 pm »

You might look at a used 95. Some think it's better at music than the 105, and by being a previous model, much cheaper.

*Scotty* · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Dec 2015, 11:13 pm »

If I read the documentation on the latest firmware update from OPPO DSD is now converted to 24/192 internally to preserve the functionality of the remote volume control as DSD cannot be manipulated in the DAC to facilitate volume changes. When switching from PCM to DSD or at the start of DSD file playback, the analogue output defaults automatically to 100%.
Also if I do a firmware update I will do so by requesting a disc be sent with the firmware on it, apparently if an update via download is corrupted or interrupted the player can be "bricked".
Scotty

Bear · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 Dec 2015, 12:37 am »

Quote from: *Scotty* on 15 Dec 2015, 11:13 pm

If I read the documentation on the latest firmware update from OPPO DSD is now converted to 24/192 internally to preserve the functionality of the remote volume control as DSD cannot be manipulated in the DAC to facilitate volume changes. When switching from PCM to DSD or at the start of DSD file playback, the analogue output defaults automatically to 100%.
Also if I do a firmware update I will do so by requesting a disc be sent with the firmware on it, apparently if an update via download is corrupted or interrupted the player can be "bricked".
Scotty

Where did you read this? I would not be happy if DSD is being downsampled, whats the point...

https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/blu-ray-BDP-10x-Firmware.aspx

*Scotty* · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 Dec 2015, 12:48 am »

https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/blu-ray-BDP-10x-Firmware.aspx

This is from firmware Main Version BDP10X-75-0515.Release Date: May 19, 2014 Applies to Loader Version:
6U1000 or 7B1300 (BDP-103),
7B1300 (BDP-105, BDP-105D, BDP-103D)

Sub Version:
MCU103-05-0916 (BDP-103),
MCU105-04-1113 (BDP-105),
MCU13D-01-0618 (BDP-103D),
MCU15D-01-0930 (BDP-105D),
DB10X 131030 (BDP-103D, 105D)

Added a safety feature for BDP-103/103D: the "SACD Output" format is set to "PCM" by default. The reason is that the digital-to-analog converter (DAC) used on these two models cannot adjust the volume for DSD signals, so the analog volume level could automatically switch back to 100 when a DSD stream is detected. This safety feature will force the DSD stream to be decoded as a PCM stream before sending it to the DAC, which can help control the volume when loading SACD disc(s).

To put not to fine a point on it, dude we're screwed
Scotty

Phil A · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 Dec 2015, 01:42 am »

You know come to think of it I played a multi-channel DSD file on the 103D a few nights ago (don't do multi-channel often) as I was getting the system for a Space Coast Audio Society meeting (and I run multiple systems) and was planning to use that spare system for Dolby Atmos and multi-channel DSD demo. I didn't spend that much time in the system but was a little perplexed when I saw the TV screen say PCM. I went thru the setting quickly but was distracted getting 3 other systems ready. Now that I'm reading this, I guess I didn't read the fine print when I did the last firmware update. However, I believe as with other Oppo players you can revert -
https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/blu-ray-BDP-10x-Firmware.aspx

It's not a big deal for me as it is a spare system that I use mostly for video and I use the other 103D in the main system only for video.

Bear · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 Dec 2015, 02:24 am »

Quote from: *Scotty* on 16 Dec 2015, 12:48 am

https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/blu-ray-BDP-10x-Firmware.aspx

This is from firmware Main Version BDP10X-75-0515.Release Date: May 19, 2014 Applies to Loader Version:
6U1000 or 7B1300 (BDP-103),
7B1300 (BDP-105, BDP-105D, BDP-103D)

Sub Version:
MCU103-05-0916 (BDP-103),
MCU105-04-1113 (BDP-105),
MCU13D-01-0618 (BDP-103D),
MCU15D-01-0930 (BDP-105D),
DB10X 131030 (BDP-103D, 105D)

Added a safety feature for BDP-103/103D: the "SACD Output" format is set to "PCM" by default. The reason is that the digital-to-analog converter (DAC) used on these two models cannot adjust the volume for DSD signals, so the analog volume level could automatically switch back to 100 when a DSD stream is detected. This safety feature will force the DSD stream to be decoded as a PCM stream before sending it to the DAC, which can help control the volume when loading SACD disc(s).

To put not to fine a point on it, dude we're screwed
Scotty

It appears this only applies to the 103/D versions?

*Scotty* · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 Dec 2015, 03:15 am »

From release notes for the most recent firmware update November 6, 2015.BDP10X-80-1031
Once this firmware version is installed on the player, you will not be able to revert back to any previous official or public beta firmware. There will be no problem upgrading to any future official or beta firmware release.
It looks like all update versions previous to BDP10X-80-1031 can be rolled back.
The firmware updates apply to both 103 and 105 series players including D versions.
This is confirmed by referring to the release notes for all updates going back to May 3, 2013.
If you click on the Download/Installation link the release notes explain which players the updates applies to.
Scotty

erniek · « **Reply #10 on:** 17 Dec 2015, 07:08 pm »

Back to the question about my DAC it is a MF VDAC2. I will initially using this with the OPPO and then will be upgrading the DAC down the road as I move the MF to another system. Interesting comment about the 95 being better than the 105.

rollo · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 Dec 2015, 07:25 pm »

Quote from: S Clark on 15 Dec 2015, 09:59 pm

You might look at a used 95. Some think it's better at music than the 105, and by being a previous model, much cheaper.

Excellent reco. A VG transport for future DACs. If you are looking for a device as transport only look at CEC. If video is important OPPO baby OPPO.

charles

ctviggen · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Dec 2015, 01:41 am »

Quote from: Phil A on 15 Dec 2015, 08:47 pm

Keep in mind current models are the 103, the 103D and the 105D - https://www.oppodigital.com/products.asp?cat=16

Price wise for the above models, one is talking $500, $600 and $1,300 respectively.

The 103D and 105D have the same video.

$1,300 seems a bit expensive for a bluray player. And who would use this as a headphone amp?

jarcher · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Dec 2015, 02:10 am »

If you're going to do an external DAC, probably not much reason to do 105 vs 103. You should be aware that the 105 as CD player / DAC will be better than the MF VDAC, so hope you're upgrading to a better DAC soon.

Personally I think the 103 + a good external DAC will sound better than spending $1300 on a 105D. E.g. a 103 + a Chord Mojo ($599) = $1100. Sure there are also other good external DAC options now where the combined price of the 103 + DAC = less than $1300 105D + sounds better.

mresseguie · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Dec 2015, 02:37 am »

Hello, erniek.

I was in your same boat approximately a year and a half ago. I wanted to buy a universal player that I could move back and forth from my HT to my 2-channel system. My budget had allowed for the 105, but my mind kept tugging me to go for the 103 because my 2-channel system has a separate DAC. Sure the 105(D) is nice and convenient because it's all in one package, but you can get a much higher quality DAC by going for separates - plus upgrading is easier IMHO.

In the end, I decided to purchase the 103 and a separate DAC. I have not once regretted buying the 103 over the 105. However, I do wish I had opted for the 103D, but I can live with my decision since I really don't watch many videos.

The DAC I ended up buying was the DAC Magic Plus. Even when I purchased it, it was a middling level DAC. By now it's getting long in the tooth, so I spend a fair amount of time researching DACs in the $800 to $1400 range. I try really hard to not look at the $2000 to $2500 range because my wife might lop my head off if I go that route.

If I were faced with the same choice again now, I wouldn't hesitate to buy the 103D and a nice DAC.

I hope this helps you in your search.

Best of luck, and enjoy yourself!

Michael

Bob2 · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Dec 2015, 03:03 am »

I have the 103D and like it very much for video but audio is better with an external DAC.
The 105 is nice but that's alot of clams...
It's possible to pick up a DAC for the cost difference that would be better.

RDavidson · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 Dec 2015, 04:01 am »

If the choice was up to me between the 103 and 105 for use as the hub in a 2 channel AV setup, I'd go with the 105. It has a superior DAC, superior build, and superior sound. Keep in mind that Blu Ray audio cannot be output via coax or toslink to an external DAC. It is part of the HDMI protocol. So, if Blu Ray audio is important to you (in the scenario above) the 105 is the better machine (due to its superior DAC and analog output).

BUT.....it is indeed expensive, especially by today's standards.

erniek · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Dec 2015, 12:34 am »

Thanks a bunch for the replies. My concern is that for the 800.00 difference between the 2 am I better off with an 800.00 DAC and the 103 over the 105. The video is not that important to me and if I understand correctly I would have more options with a stand alone DAC.

Freo-1 · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Dec 2015, 01:13 am »

Quote from: erniek on 19 Dec 2015, 12:34 am

Thanks a bunch for the replies. My concern is that for the 800.00 difference between the 2 am I better off with an 800.00 DAC and the 103 over the 105. The video is not that important to me and if I understand correctly I would have more options with a stand alone DAC.

IMHO, the 105 is the way to go. It's the Swiss army knife of audio. As a stand alone DAC, it's probably better than most of the 800.00 DAC's out there. The analog output is so good, Modwright does not even bother to offer a SS upgrade for it. That should tell you a lot. It's a more flexible unit all the way around.

I use it as a all around source for a second tube based audio system. You can even use the volume adjust as a remote control for your source.

jarcher · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Dec 2015, 02:31 am »

Quote from: erniek on 19 Dec 2015, 12:34 am

Thanks a bunch for the replies. My concern is that for the 800.00 difference between the 2 am I better off with an 800.00 DAC and the 103 over the 105. The video is not that important to me and if I understand correctly I would have more options with a stand alone DAC.

Definitely a 103 + $800 dac. Plenty of other people do SS mods to the oppo 105 - one I heard from ex CJ guy Bill Thalmann at Music Technology smoked the Modwright one - but costs $1800. First thing he did was remove the big multichannel analog board that constitutes one of the biggest differences between the 103 and 105. Then put a better clock in it, then a discrete analog output stage, then improve the power supply, etc.

I'd definitely not use the internal volume control either for critical listening, especially for low level listening, unless you enjoy digital truncation.

The 105 does a lot of things well in one box for a decent price. But I'd put the internal dac part at $500 equivalent and mostly because of the linear power supply.