SACD has been axed - certain, not official

jasontkennedy · « **on:** 20 Oct 2004, 08:10 pm »

Here's the deal. I work at an audio store here in st. louis. I heard from some of the regional big wigs from MONSTER that sony has officially abandoned SACD. Any releases near compleation will see the light of day, but apart from that, no new production will be taken on. They will not continue pressing exsisting releases beyond the pressings of their final releases. They will not be liscensing out the DSD engine to anyone else. So, I didn't catch it from Sony, but I did get it from the higher ups at MONSTER, who I wouls call "well connected". And they way they said it, there was no second guessing or pandering. So according to them, it is certain. But since it didn't come from a sony PR person, I dare not call it official.

Apparently Sony is trying to keep it on the downlow, considering they still have SACD players on their current roster. So, my internet searching to confirm this has been unsuccesful. I would keep watching slashdot for the next few days to watch for the media release for this information. I am not putting you all on, this is not some sort of prank. Apparently the driving reason behind this is theat Son'y believes that the CD is "dead" and are looking to further audio technologies in other areas. I huess they mean Ipod, and mp3 players, and other stuff like that.

Rick Craig · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Oct 2004, 08:21 pm »

Quote from: jasontkennedy

Here's the deal. I work at an audio store here in st. louis. I heard from some of the regional big wigs from MONSTER that sony has officially abandoned SACD. Any releases near compleation will see the light of day, but apart from that, no new production will be taken on. They will not continue pressing exsisting releases beyond the pressings of their final releases. They will not be liscensing out the DSD engine to anyone else. So, I didn't catch it from Sony, but I did get it from the higher ups at MONSTER ...

With the new HDMI audio standard I think that you'll see more companies enter that arena. Face it, whether we like it or not, home theater drives much of the audio market. While I have embraced the SACD and DVD-A formats I have wondered how long they would survive in the mass market. I think what will happen is that you'll see something similar to what Mobile Fidelity did with vinyl and have third-party audiophile labels issue SACD and DVD-A pressings of CD material. With companies like Telarc using DSD I don't see why that wouldn't continue, after all, it adds more royalties to Sony's bottom line.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Oct 2004, 08:53 pm »

I'm a bit skeptical- I could see Sony dropping SACD in a way, it but would make no sense to quit liscencing DSD to 3rd parties, especially given how much it cost to develope it. Anyway, I've heard a similar rumor for years, and it's always "semi-official" and always just around the corner.

It could of course be a done deal, but I'll believe it when I see it. Wouldn't be any huge loss, though, to me personally.

nathanm · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 Oct 2004, 08:54 pm »

They sacked SACD!?

Russtafarian · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 Oct 2004, 09:14 pm »

Are we talking Sony Music or Sony Electronics? Different corporate entities. Sony Music SACD production has been DOA for a while. But the Sony SACD players keep coming out.

Between Universal, Telarc, and a host of other specialty labels, we continue to see a lot of SACD releases. We won't see much top-40. Instead they're giving us real music. I can't complain about that.

soundboy · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Oct 2004, 09:47 pm »

I think SACD is going to well to be abandoned by Sony. Sure, when compared to the sales of CD, SACD is a drop in the giant bucket. But, on a worldwide basis, SACD is more than a success as a audiophile niche format. I would think Sony has already given up hope of SACD ever achieving mass market success.

Just recently, Universal Music announced it will release between 100 - 150 SACD titles next year. Warner Music's Rhino label is now mentioning SACD in its online hi-rez store. As for Sony, they've released 4 new SACD titles in the last couple of months, with Aerosmith's "Rocks" rumored to be coming to SACD after X'mas.

Sony may be pulling sponsorship of DSD from recording studios, but they're hardly standing still. Sony itself has five DSD-mastering studios around the world and they are more than just prepping SACDs.

BeeBop · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Oct 2004, 11:16 am »

Beta, minidisc, SACD.... Why would you ever buy anything from Sony again? I know I wouldn't.

dogberry · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Oct 2004, 12:21 pm »

The comparisons of SACD to Beta or Minidisc are flawed. Neither Beta nor Minidisc had the broad commerical adoption that SACD already does. It was a competing format with VHS, and in the case of Sony, it was wishful thinking that MD would be adopted. In the case of VHS< Matsushita out marketed Sony. In the case of MD, Sony was offering a flawed format (too much compression).

With all the adopters SACD has, Sony would be stupid to axe the format. Sounds like troll bait to me.

RJ · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Oct 2004, 12:34 pm »

Quote from: BeeBop

Beta, minidisc, SACD.... Why would you ever buy anything from Sony again? I know I wouldn't.

You can add their discontinued Clie Palm based PDA's to the list!

WerTicus · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Oct 2004, 02:25 pm »

mini disc isnt dead.

stvnharr · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Oct 2004, 03:35 pm »

These "Death of SACD" threads and announcements are becoming much more prominent that the Elvis sightings of years ago. Seems to be a new death thread every week, sometimes more. I think this has been going on since Sony introduced SACD 5 years ago.

All that has really happened is that SACD hasn't taken over the mass market of popular music. And the "Death Poster's" then seize on some
"announcement" or third party gossip, to pronounce SACD's death.

SACD is indeed nearly dead for those devotees of popular music, and followers of the mass market retailers. There just isn't much to be had.

SACD certainly is NOT dead for devotees of classical music. In fact, SACD seems to be somewhat thriving, or at least increasing, in this small little portion of the marketplace.

However, I'm sure these "Death" postings will never stop. They'll just keep coming and coming and coming. Must give certain people something to do!

nathanm · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 Oct 2004, 04:05 pm »

I am willing to bet the vast majority of music buyers aren't even aware that DVD-A and SACD exist. It doesn't feel like either have gone mainstream at all. People know MP3s and they know DVD videos and CDs but they think vinyl is as dead as the 8-track cartridge and I doubt they know about the higher resolution digital formats. Besides, SACDs and DVD-As look the same as CDs so it probably doesn't register as an alternate format in their minds anyway. This is just a feeling, however.

And another thing - if these companies were really smart they might think of coming up with a more recognizable name for their software. People are completely confused by the "alphabet soup" of acronyms out there. Hell, I am confused by the acronyms! This isn't a feeling though, I've heard this from many people.

jasontkennedy · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 Oct 2004, 04:57 pm »

hmmm..... troll bait. rehashed.... I love being called a liar. THanks guys! You know, I didn't fabricate this story. I am passing along information; not info that I got from some conspiracy theorist tweek 2 channel guy that daydreams and put green highlighter around the outside of his cds to prevent jitter. I got this directly from one corp. big wigs at a company that is a pretty big player (personal feelings aside: I don't care for monster). I mean I was explicite in saying that it wasn't official, but I also wanted to make the impression that it wasn't just another rumor. I have read many of the rumors myself. I don't waste my time with stupid rumors, conspiracy theories, and the like. If I hadn't thought it to be fairly certain, I wounldn't have put it in the title.

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 Oct 2004, 04:58 pm »

"These "Death of SACD" threads and announcements are becoming much more prominent that the Elvis sightings of years ago".
Hey: I had Lunch with Elvis last week!

d.b.

Lost81 · « **Reply #14 on:** 21 Oct 2004, 06:35 pm »

Is it anything like "The Death of BlackGates" news / rumors floating around?

Or is that certain?

After all, "The Death of Elna Cerafine" did happen, no?

-Lost81

stvnharr · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Oct 2004, 01:46 am »

Jason,
No big deal, it's just that your bit of info is not the first or last such story about this subject. It's a big industry.

eduardw · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Oct 2004, 02:23 pm »

Sony celebrates five years of SA-CD September 27, 2004
"At a major reception held at the Sony Ginza Showroom Building in Japan, and attended by over 200 participants, Sony last week celebrated the fifth anniversary of the introduction of Super Audio CD. The event brought together leading representatives from many major record companies, including the Japanese subsidiaries of BMG, EMI, Universal Music K.K. (UMKK) and Sony Music Entertainment Japan (SMEJ), as well as equipment manufacturers, distributors and retailers.

"In his opening address, Sony Corporation Chairman and CEO, Mr. Nobuyuki Idei, emphasised the critical role that SA-CD plays today in bringing real music to the consumer. Furthermore, Mr. Idei restated Sony’s commitment to SA-CD and asked for further co-operation from the entire audio and music industries in promoting this high-resolution, high-security audio format.

"With over 2410 albums already available on the format (source: www.sa-cd.net), SA-CD is by far the most popular high-resolution, multi-channel audio format. Apart from celebrating its success, a major motivation for staging this high-profile event was to further encourage record companies to release more music on Super Audio CD. To support this message, Mr. Kei Ishizaka, President and CEO of UMKK explained the critical importance of packaged media to his company and the key role that SA-CD is playing in its mission to provide the highest quality audio product to its customers. Following this theme, Mr. Kazutomo Enomoto, President of SME Japan addressed plans for his company to release a wide range of music from different genres on SA-CD.

"Besides Mr. Idei’s direct call for support from the music recording industry, another clear message was the growing need for increased and extended infrastructure to support SA-CD production globally. “The business case for SA-CD is now well proven and the business model is established,” commented Mr. Yushi Igarashi, General Manager of the Sony SA-CD Business Centre in Japan. “Sony is totally committed to this revolutionary audio technology and we would like to promote its adoption throughout the audio industry.” Concluding the event, Mr. Yoshinori Yamamoto, President, Sony Corporation, Home Network Company, Home Audio Company explained that the evolution of one-chip SA-CD solutions was leading to the rapid development of a wide range of SA-CD hardware, and he committed to help the audio industry adopt and integrate these new technology solutions."

Super Audio CD News, 27 September 2004

For more information:

[email protected]

http://www.sa-cd.net/shownews/31

soundboy · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Oct 2004, 05:28 pm »

Looks like a lot is happening with SACD....

http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=12377501

more Universal SACDs, upcoming Sony SACDs, rumors of upcoming Pink Floyd and Norah Jones SACDs, Harman/Philips car universal player, DualDisc, etc...

Val · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Oct 2004, 12:21 pm »

Quote from: BeeBop

Beta, minidisc, SACD.... Why would you ever buy anything from Sony again? I know I wouldn't.

My son has a Sony SAT T-60 satellite receiver among other different HT components; after the children lost the satellite remote control he bought a Sony RM-VL900 universal remote control. Our logic was faulty: it controlled all the other components except the Sony satellite receiver! Searching the net I found that Sony remotes don't automatically control some of their own components!

Val

Scott F. · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Oct 2004, 01:46 pm »

I don't know anything more than you guys do so take what I'm typing with a grain of salt. I did a little investigative work on the web I found:

Facts as reported by the RIAA and Sony
- The RIAA Mid-Year 04 sales of SACD's are down 54.2% (based on units shipped in the same period last year).

- The same RIAA report shows DVD-V and DVD-A sales are up 101.7% and 109.8% respectively.

- Sony Corporate Quaterly Report (3 months ending 6/30/04) to the Stockholders show Sony Audio Division with a drop in sales of 11.8% even after adjusting for the falling US dollar.

- RIAA Year End Sales showed Vinyl Singles outshipped SACD's by nearly a 3:1 margin (vinyl 3.8m units/sacd 1.3m units).
(NOTE, I did not include the shipments of the full length LP or EP in the vinyl shipment figures)

- RIAA Mid Year 04 shows a similar trend compared to vinyl (vinyl 1.9m units/sacd .689m units).
(NOTE, I did not include the shipments of the full length LP or EP in the vinyl shipment figures)

Subjective Commentary
Take those facts, couple them with Sony's Corporate restructuring program (called Transformation 60, (TR-60)) which has just begun Phase 2 back in April of 04, and you can draw some interesting parallels to the 'Demise of SACD's' stories.

You need to download ALL of the recent Sony Corporate presentations to the shareholders and then download the TR-60 Structural Reforms. Read between the lines of Corporateze lingo and you can get a feel for where Sony is headed in the future and what their primary market focus' will be.

When it comes to large corporations and in particular shareholders, any arm of a business that is not performing (no matter how well liked by it's audience segmant), that same segment will eventually get the axe unless something dramatic happens (like huge, sustainable boosts in sales now making it viable).

Take the emotion out of it. Forget that most SACD releases sound good. Forget that other companies have jumped on the format. It appears to be a looser for Sony. Now matter what we think, the shareholders will expect Sony to make the proper business decision and cut the offering.

Now, thats not to say that they won't sell all rights to SACD technology, patents, etc to the highest bidder. There are loads of other companies that are into the format neck deep. I think the format will probably survive but the landscape will no longer have Sony in the forefront.

I might be right, I might be wrong, only time will tell.
I'm only looking at it from a purely business standpoint. When a 'new better' technology that gets outsold by some (reportedly) 'dead and archaic' format like vinyl, it may be time to do something else.

PS, I'm a vinylphile so no flames about the 'archaic' comment please