[Bigfishhk]

Squeezebox users- is there a difference in SQ between wifi streaming from computer to SBT vs ethernet cable connection to wife extender? I added a wifi extender which is close to the SBT unit and have the option of cabling it. Meantime the wifi reception is 100%, rarely any drop outs and the SQ via wifi seems pretty good.
I don't have a spare cable to check this but if it's worth it I can pick one up. For audio use do you need anything above the standard ethernet cable?

thanks
Tom

[richidoo]

No there is no difference. There is no "audio" being transfered by ethernet. At that stage it is still just packets of data that are later reconstructed into a file in SBT memory. With ethernet (wired or wireless,) data packets can even arrive in the wrong order and they are still reassembled correctly by higher layers of the network protocol. As long as the reconstruction is completed in time there is no difference in SQ. The only SQ symptom of ethernet problem that you would hear is stopping of play for a short or long period. The tone quality or other audiophile terms wouldn't apply to ethernet issues. SB3 and Duet had about 30 seconds of buffer memory from when network disconnected to when the music stops, so there is little chance of any impact if you have a good connection, whether it is wire or "wife."    Once the assembled file is streamed from memory then the sample timing jitter and analog stage SQ issues become factors.

[Bigfishhk]

No there is no difference. There is no "audio" being transfered by ethernet. At that stage it is still just packets of data that are later reconstructed into a file in SBT memory. With ethernet (wired or wireless,) data packets can even arrive in the wrong order and they are still reassembled correctly by higher layers of the network protocol. As long as the reconstruction is completed in time there is no difference in SQ. The only SQ symptom of ethernet problem that you would hear is stopping of play for a short or long period. The tone quality or other audiophile terms wouldn't apply to ethernet issues. SB3 and Duet had about 30 seconds of buffer memory from when network disconnected to when the music stops, so there is little chance of any impact if you have a good connection, whether it is wire or "wife."    Once the assembled file is streamed from memory then the sample timing jitter and analog stage SQ issues become factors.

thank you for the explanation. Save me a few bucks and some hassle since my wifi connection is strong.

[jarcher]

I would disagree. Using wifi is going to introduce additional noise in the SBT. Furthermore the more processing the device has to do can also degrade sound quality. So if the device has to work hard to reconstruct sub par wifi info I believe you can potentially hear it at the back end. Even if it's all being error checked and reconstructed before being passed along to the dac, all that extra processing introduces potential for data corruption and the extra processing is adding more heat and noise into the circuit.

I suppose people may argue whether this is actually noticeable at the speaker / listener end. It's been explained to me by those who are far more knowledgeable than I am (i.e. Music server designers) that keeping things as simple as possible in the circuit design and processing is the desired goal and is audible. Of course there may be other limitations of the device (as well as other components in the audio chain) which may not allow noticing those improvements (including limitations to the listeners hearing or listening environment). But what I'm mentioning is supposed to be "best practice" and the ideal.

To give more specific examples - I have a modified SB Duet and the designer disabled the wifi board for that reason. Aurender - one of the better and most respected music server companies does not have wifi built in - just Ethernet - for both the reason of wifi noise even though that unit has fast processors and both a large SSD cache and substantial memory. They've left out wifi both for reliability issues but also for sound quality ones.

Short answer : I'd try your SBT with Ethernet direct from router and listen for yourself. You have little to loose aside from an extra long Ethernet cable which you can reuse or return if the improvement is not audible. It's possible for all the previously mentioned reasons that it might not sound noticeablely better, but it's worth a try.

[jarcher]

Ps - don't think Ethernet to wifi extender is going to sound better than wifi in SBT - you'd have to do Ethernet direct to router. If anything with the extender all else being equal it might be worse (introducing another device and more data processing than necessary).

Ethernet cable quality affecting SQ is debatable - Even believers have informed me that the noticeable improvement is subtle vs upgrades of other similar cost. I think the improvement would even be more marginal into a wifi extended. A good and real CAT 7 cable should be sufficient with its superior shielding. Beware that there are true and fake CAT 7.

[Bigfishhk]

Ps - don't think Ethernet to wifi extender is going to sound better than wifi in SBT - you'd have to do Ethernet direct to router. If anything with the extender all else being equal it might be worse (introducing another device and more data processing than necessary).

Ethernet cable quality affecting SQ is debatable - Even believers have informed me that the noticeable improvement is subtle vs upgrades of other similar cost. I think the improvement would even be more marginal into a wifi extended. A good and real CAT 7 cable should be sufficient with its superior shielding. Beware that there are true and fake CAT 7.

My router is too far away. the extender is next to the SBT but seems you do not recommend it. ..the wifi strength is 100%... When I get a spare cable I'll test it anyway. thanks for info.

[Syrah]

I had a similar problem in my setup.  What I did was connect the SBT straight to my laptop (in the same room) via ethernet.  The laptop then bridged the connection.  This worked very well.
 

[dminches]

One of the tweaks to the SBT is to turn off wifi entirely since it introduces noise so I would recommend wired vs wireless if that is available to you.

[mcgsxr]

I am not sure I follow why the Touch would "sound worse" connected to a wifi bridge vs wired directly to a router.

I currently use my Touch wired, but will be moving to wireless for my headphone setup.  I cannot get a wire to that location, so it will either have to be Touch as the wifi, or a bridge.

[mdconnelly]

I switched my Touch to wired from wireless because I was occasionally getting stuttering on playback of hi-rez (24/96) music via wireless.  These days, our homes are often saturated with wireless connections all competing for the same bandwidth.  So I suspect that even a 100% wireless connection may occasionally experience dropouts that wired would not.

Of course, the easiest path is to use wireless and see how it works for you.

[Syrah]

A wifi bridge worked very well for me and sounded better.  It was combined with turning off the wireless on the SBT.  I seem to recall some computer literate person telling me that, in fact, those little smart packets would move around less since the laptop would talk directly to the SBT via the ethernet cable.  The only downside is that you really need to keep your laptop in your listening room as a permanent device.

Also, as noted, the bridge is much more stable than wifi.  I know a lot more about wifi now, such as assigning static addresses to devices, but when I was a wifi newbie my SBT caused many a day tearing my hair out to figure out why it worked some days and then just decided not to work anymore.  And 24/94 was basically impossible in my house using wifi.

[Bigfishhk]

A wifi bridge worked very well for me and sounded better.  It was combined with turning off the wireless on the SBT.  I seem to recall some computer literate person telling me that, in fact, those little smart packets would move around less since the laptop would talk directly to the SBT via the ethernet cable.  The only downside is that you really need to keep your laptop in your listening room as a permanent device.

Also, as noted, the bridge is much more stable than wifi.  I know a lot more about wifi now, such as assigning static addresses to devices, but when I was a wifi newbie my SBT caused many a day tearing my hair out to figure out why it worked some days and then just decided not to work anymore.  And 24/94 was basically impossible in my house using wifi.

how do you turn off the wireless on the SBT?
tx
Tom

[aldcoll]

Settings on the touch.  Go to Advanced, network and I think if a Ethernet is connected.   I think

Don't have one hooked or a cable right now to test.  May not turn off as the touch is also a bridge.   Check wiki

Gotta go Susan Tedeski Is live onAustin City YouTube.

[Nalor]

I have my SB Touches all connected to Ethernet. I live though in an apartment, so the RF/WiFi is rather crowded. Ethernet helps prevent buffering and stuttering when I'm at home.

[Bigfishhk]

Tethered to the wifi extender I haven't noticed it sounding better or worse particularly.. however it seems to react faster when selecting tracks so I will stick with the ethernet!

Next up is to decide whether to get a DAC and which one.. previously my EE Minimax DAc+ made such a minimal difference that I sold it. (of course the EE Minimax made a huge difference when hooked up to a laptop but I no longer use laptop)

the PS Audio new wave DSD or Wadia 121 look interesting though  out of my budget for now.

I think the SB touch SQ holds up very well, though for long listening a really exceptional DAC would probably be an upgrade and less fatiguing... Transparency , sound stage, body, decay, dynamics all impressive even without the DAC.
System is SBT- Rogue 99 super magnum pre amp- Rogue Stereo 100 amp- Salk Song Towers speakers & Rythmik sub..

[vonnie123]

My setup is fairly spread out over the entire 2000 square foot house.  Computers / router / NAS in the office, Bedroom rig/ Sonos in the master bedroom, and the main system with several sources hooked to a switch in the great room.  I found an Ethernet over Power connection from the router to the main system (and switch) worked far better than wi-fi, even with a range extender.

[ctviggen]

I always prefer hardwired if possible. My two squeezeboxes are both hardwired.  I try to put everything on wires, including printers. 

[mcgsxr]

I left my Touch in the main setup for now.  For my headphone setup I am running a plug PC with Linux on it to stream up to 24/192 via Internet over power.  Works well for me.  In time I will swap the Touch for the plug and see what happens.