[Guy 13]

Hi all,
another example of the lack of imagination of those Chinese and the same...

[FullRangeMan]

Hi all,
another example of the lack of imagination of those Chinese and the same...

In all these years my most comfortable tennis was a Chinese copy (Le Cheval)

[orientalexpress]

Hi all,
another example of the lack of imagination of those Chinese and the same...

In the 1960s, the United States made 98 percent of its shoes,It now imports more than 95 percent of its footwear.Chances are the shoes u wear is made  in China.

[JackD201]

Chinese knock offs of Chinese products, hmmm. Maybe they'll tighten their intellectual property laws.


Unlikely.

The funniest thing I ever saw while in China were Pringles knock offs. Flavor? "Potato flavored chips" 

Not so funny were the deaths from fake milk containing melamine or pork buns with plaster of paris.

That said, like a poster mentioned earlier, there are good mainland chinese companies and there are the bad. In audio land there really are good ones (albeit I don't carry any) on my list of good chinese brands are LM, Cayin, ASL (beefy output transformers!), Jolida and Opera/Consonance. There are likely very many more that remain undiscovered.

[Shogun]

You don't have one China. Hong Kong and Taiwan (Melody, Usher Audio) are chinese, but they have been on capitalism system for the last 60 years or so. It unlikely they will sell you fake part or something unreliable. The mainland China with communist background  is the one we are talking about. it still a developped country, some very poor to very rich, with different goal in life. So you can have something very bad (Grey market) to very good (Auralic, Line Magnetic, Mark Audio). As the chinese get richer, manufacturers will follow the money. I expect maybe in 10 years mainland China will joing South Korean and Japan for quality and innovation. These two country also had bad reputation before.

Dont forget, chinese are smart, unlike people in Hong and Taiwan, those in mainland are just unlucky with history. But they are catching up. That mean we'll see more upscale audio manufacturer from China

[Shogun]

Chinese knock offs of Chinese products, hmmm. Maybe they'll tighten their intellectual property laws.


Unlikely.

you can see it this way. The communist gouvernement only open the market in the 80s or 90s. There are no innovative companies in China back then. The Chinese are smart, the easiest and fastest way to meet local demand is to copy the ideas of the West. Today, some Chinese companies stand out without copying. They are simply copied by others who are not ready to fly by themself.

[Guy 13]

Hi all,
about 15 years ago, I met in Hong Kong the Asian manager of an Italian company
(Lino Manfrotto) for whom I was the exclusive distributor for Vietnam
and he told me that I had to understand that the Chinese (Main land) were
financial not strong enough to design anything of their own,
therefore, copying was cheaper, more affordable and acceptable for them.
That comment coming from a guy that was paid by an Italian company
surprised me (At the time) because the Chinese were copying like mad all the Italian products
that had a very good reputation for quality products.
I was even offered by the Chinese to import and sell their counterfit products in Vietnam
and they knew that I was the distributor for the Italian company.
They even contacted me three times under three different company names...
No need to say, that I never did sell counerfit products.
The Vietnamese even copied some of the products that I was importing
and sold they at one third the price of my genuine products.

Guy 13
 

[mresseguie]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Melody Australian?

Shogun,

I cannot speak for Hong Kong's past, but I can speak about some of Taiwan's past. There was a time when many foreign products were copied in Taiwan for domestic consumption. These products ranged from literature to electronics to watches to tapes and CDs to luxury accessories to?? Some of the best fake Rolex watches used to be available here. Nearly all of these fakes are gone from the island now except I still find a few copied CDs and DVDs in the night markets. Oh, there's a guy marketing a pair of speakers that look remarkably similar to Zaph Audio SR-71 speakers (same Seas woofer and tweeter, same cabinet size) as his own speakers. They sound darned good, too, which is why I noticed the resemblance.

I believe the vast majority of audio manufacturers here in Taiwan (and more and more in China) are not only very ethical, but eager to be viewed as equals on the world audiophile stage. They want (need?) for their products to be viewed as original, creative, and of the highest quality. 

[Bemopti123]

I smell a quarantine coming to this post soon.  We should tone down the Communist or non Communist rhetoric.

I cannot stand the line from different Western based companies that claim, "Designed and Engineered in the U.K or the U.S"  but (Made in PROC or something like that.)

I was fairly disappointed at B&O when they released their first iPhone/Ipad/Ipod dock, the A8, and when I called the store I asked them, where is it made?  They could not give me a straight answer.  So, I went down and I was overtaken by my shopping finger that I took it home.  It would be a couple of weeks later, when I was looking at the back of the unit, in non descript, in a hidden corner, Made in China.  Oh well.  Selling Scandinavian cool...  Designed and Engineered in Denmark...." BUT.... Made, where, where?????  Nowhere to be found. 

I hope that China will soon begin to produce quality products, because they are really able to, if they are held up to certain standards.  Remember that FoxConn makes most of the iPhones in the world.  Meaning, they are the capability but the factory leaves much to be desired in terms of labor practices.   

[FullRangeMan]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Melody Australian?

STM Melody equips are made in China and offices are in Australia, but I may be wrong.

[SteveFord]

I don't know if they can compete with the big boys but I own Jolida phonostages  and a Yaqin tube buffer and am happy with them.
Price was a consideration but they exceeded my expectations by a considerable margin.

[Hugh]

You are correct.

Originally, Melody was founded and operated in Melbourne.
Eventually, they moved their factory to Shenzhen, China.
They are contemplating of moving the factory back to Australia.

You can find lots of details on 6Moons.

STM Melody equips are made in China and offices are in Australia, but I may be wrong.

[Poultrygeist]

Hi all,
another example of the lack of imagination of those Chinese and the same...

Check out the spelling on the Miniwatt. 

http://www.tonepublications.com/review/the-mini-watt-amplifier-take-a-fresh-look-at-hifi/

[eclein]

I used a Grant Fidelity Tube DAC for years and it was great equipment, still is I'm getting ready to give it to my son. I have and use a AUNE DAC/Pre now in my system. I have had multiple pieces of equipment from overseas and never had a problem with any pieces. I always wondered when I got into the hobby why Chinese companies were so frowned upon. My stuff always worked and sounded great, I never felt over charged.
 I'm sure like everywhere else in the world there are bad eggs, I couldn't afford this hobby if it wasn't for them.

[RootScript]

I have had multiple pieces of equipment from overseas and never had a problem with any pieces. I always wondered when I got into the hobby why Chinese companies were so frowned upon. My stuff always worked and sounded great, I never felt over charged.
 I'm sure like everywhere else in the world there are bad eggs, I couldn't afford this hobby if it wasn't for them.

@eclein - I totally agree, if it wasn't for the perceived 'cheap Chinese products' many of us would not be able to afford some of the 'well priced' items from the US & UK.

Here is a recent story about 2 purchases I made recently, 1st a used 2009 MiniWatt S1 amplifier, and 2nd some brand new 2015 active Audioengine A2+ speakers:
I had a look at photos of the components used in these two products, and I expected to see 'cheap Chinese unknown components' in the Hong Kong based MiniWatt amplifier; I was very surprised & relieved to find 'good quality components' like Nichicon & Rubycon capacitors inside the MiniWatt S1.
Also, to my surprise, I found unknown branded components in the Audioengine (a USA company) active part of the speakers (the amplifier part).

So that was my lesson learnt, I won't be judging products based on where in the world the company is based anymore.  I will try not to listen to loose generalisations about products made in China or the USA.  I guess I will just have to judge & assess each product on specification, reviews and advice.

[DaveC113]

I just read a review preferring the $800 Gustard X20 DAC to an Auralic Vega and Schiit Yggy...

https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-dac-x20-super-ultimate-2-x-es9018-xmos-hifi-dac-384khz-dsd-dop-decoder.html

[mresseguie]

I just read a review preferring the $800 Gustard X20 DAC to an Auralic Vega and Schiit Yggy...

https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-dac-x20-super-ultimate-2-x-es9018-xmos-hifi-dac-384khz-dsd-dop-decoder.html

Dave,

Great find! I've already been to the link and have begun reading the thread at Head-Fi.org. I'm practically jumping up and down with excitement and crying because I know I'll have to pay an extra 21% if I have it shipped to Taiwan. Grrr! I wonder if Aldcol (or some other trustworthy soul) would be interested in breaking it in for me. Hmm.

[Johnny2Bad]

" ... [snip]

I cannot stand the line from different Western based companies that claim, "Designed and Engineered in the U.K or the U.S"  but (Made in PROC or something like that.)

I was fairly disappointed at B&O when they released their first iPhone/Ipad/Ipod dock, the A8, and when I called the store I asked them, where is it made?  They could not give me a straight answer.  So, I went down and I was overtaken by my shopping finger that I took it home.  It would be a couple of weeks later, when I was looking at the back of the unit, in non descript, in a hidden corner, Made in China.  Oh well.  Selling Scandinavian cool...  Designed and Engineered in Denmark...." BUT.... Made, where, where?????  Nowhere to be found. 

I hope that China will soon begin to produce quality products, because they are really able to, if they are held up to certain standards.  Remember that FoxConn makes most of the iPhones in the world.  Meaning, they are the capability but the factory leaves much to be desired in terms of labor practices.   
..."

I would have to hunt it down, which I'm not going to invest the time to do, but I have seen breakdowns of the iPhone that reveal what % of the wholesale price goes to which country (the reseller, as always, takes the greatest when expressed as a % of the selling price).

China was on the order of 2% and near the bottom of the list (primarily assembly)
The country that received the highest % was Germany, at about 20% (parts)
(Everyone has either a trade deficit (buy more than they sell) or surplus (sell more than they buy) in International Trade; Germany is the world's largest exporter to China).

RE: The Parent Post from Guy13
Mis-spelling of the name on that shoe means the manufacturer cannot be sued or blocked at the border for Copyright or Trade Name infringement; it's done quite deliberately and in many cases indicates a company that is making an effort to comply with the letter of the law. (In the case of the photo attached, we see infringement via the (graphic) trade marks, but not the name itself. So, maybe this particular company isn't trying that hard ).

100 years ago the world's largest copyright scofflaw was the United States, and the UK was the nation most copied in the USA without compensation. US publishers ignored all UK copyrights, and manufacturers ignored virtually all other non-US Intellectual Property (patents, etc). US law indemnified domestic corporations from prosecution.

It's all part of an evolutionary timeline; in the 60's Japanese electronics were seen as pretty much exactly the same as we see the PRC's (China) products today, and even the copycat trade names were common with Japanese products.

In most countries it's mandatory to identify the Country of Origin on the product itself and on the documentation and the carton (individual and bulk packaging), which is the nation where (for example, under US law) 51% or more of the Added Value is accounted for.

Since in most Western or "First World" nations the largest expense is Labour, merely assembling the product from imported parts can in many cases make it possible to claim the Country of Origin is domestic, eg: "Made in USA" (or wherever, UK, Canada, etc).

EG: $100 MSRP item:

Imported Parts + International Shipping $24
Assembly (Domestic) + Domestic Shipping $26
----- Country of Origin is Domestic @ 52% Added Value -----
Wholesaler + Domestic Shipping* $10
Reseller $40

* Typical is Domestic Shipping charge is paid by the wholesaler if the reseller buys in sufficient volume, in small volumes it's paid by the reseller and forms part of the reseller's cost price.

We see products with Country of Origin (COO) of PRC (China) specifically because in the case of the same product outlined above, the Value Added by Assembly would be on the order of $1, making the MSRP $50 for an identical product.

It may be annoying to see "designed in [some western country] as an addition to the mandatory COA labelling, but it also means the MSRP is significantly lower if the product is assembled in China (or similar economy).

Wages in China over the last 10 years have risen to the point where they are nearly the same as wages in Mexico, this is why we are seeing more Mexican production for sale in Canada and the USA. Generally it's larger and heavier products as of today (Jan2016) but that will continue to change.

For example, virtually 100% of domestic (home) Freezers, regardless of brand, for sale in North America are made in Mexico today, and more manufacturing is moving to Mexico rather than China for the North American market.

[Guy 13]

Thanks Johnny2Bad for that well written
and informative post of yours.

Guy 13

[aldcoll]

Dave,

Great find! I've already been to the link and have begun reading the thread at Head-Fi.org. I'm practically jumping up and down with excitement and crying because I know I'll have to pay an extra 21% if I have it shipped to Taiwan. Grrr! I wonder if Aldcol (or some other trustworthy soul) would be interested in breaking it in for me. Hmm.

My ears have been ringing?  Did I hear my name