[neoprufrok]

Hi all, new to the forums here, but have been around AA for about 2-3 years.  I posted this on AA, but noone seemed interested, but I just wanted to document my initial experiences with the Gallo's.  

'm just happy.

My speakers came on Friday night. They got unpacked in record time and I've spent the last few days optimizing speaker position and height. I have mine about 4 feet out fromt he back wall and 2 3/4 feet out from the side walls. Being fed a signal from Anthem Amp2 SE via MIT T2 cabling.

First impressions:

-Initial sound was as described by others here on teh forum - bass a little tight and very subdued, midrange recessed and details were just being hidden. Still sounded better than the B&W 600's they replaced, but not as good as I remembered my N805s I sold a year ago. Also soundstage and imaging were narrow and diffuse respectively.

-Angle of the speaker matters. I initially set the spikes up teh ay the manu suggested. However, since I sit fairly far back from the speakers (a good 9-10 ft due to the room dimensions), I noticed that the detail and image focus seemed to be lacking. I angled the speakers such that the back spikes raised the rear of the speaker some so that the MTM speaker combination fired slightly above my head, vs way above my head. This snapped the image focus backed to where I remember it being when I auditioned these speakers and brought back teh detail somewhat.

-After 20 hours, that Gallo Ref 3 sound I fell in love with at the dealer is coming back... Its starting to bloom the way I remembered it and the magic is returning. I'm no good at talkign about the various specifics of analyzing sound quality.. but it just sounds so right to me. The magical air around each voice/instrument is returning, as is the amazingly wide soundstage and that sense that music just appears right in front of you - naked and true.

In all, I'm so very happy I have these speakers. The added benefit that my wife loves them and thinks they add to our living room decor rather than detract.

[brj]

I'm glad to hear that you are enjoying your new speakers!

If you don't mind, a couple of questions for you...

Can you comment on your component setup and room treatments, and the degree to which the speakers reacted to changes in either?

Do you have, or did you have a chance to audition, the B.A.M. unit to drive the second voice coil on the woofer?  (No one seems to have heard this yet.)

Thanks!

[jermmd]

Congatulations.  Break in should really help these speakers.  A dealer I almost bought the Ref 3's from thought they sounded terrible when he first got them and tried to sell me another brand.  After break in, he changed his mind, admitting that these were exceptional speakers at a very reasonable price.  I've heard these speakers sound great and not so great in a different set up.  Placement and electronics are key.  I'd like to hear more about your associated electronics and set up too.  Are the woofers facing in or out and what difference does it make in your system?

Joe M.

[neoprufrok]

Thanks!

My sources:
1)  Lacie Extreme 250GB HD to G4 12" Powerbook running iTunes to M-Audio Audiophile USB to Preamp via Transparent The Link 200 IC's
2)  Arcam CD93T to preamp via Transparent IC's
3)  Sony DVD/SACD player 5.1 to preamp via Transparent IC's
Preamp:
Audio Refinement Pre5 All Analog Multichannel Preamp
Outputs to Amp via Transparent MusicWave IC

Amp:
Anthem Amp2SE with Seimens tubes to speakers via MIT Terminator 2

Power:  
PS Audio Ultimate Outlet to 2 PS Audio Juice Bars
Amp Connected via MIT ZCord2

Speakers:
Gallo's as mentioned
Velodyne DD-12 with linelevel input from Anthem Amp2SE

Room Treatments:  None -  We have upholstered chairs and sofas as well as a few rugs.  Other than that, nothing else.  
Room Dimensions:  14' x 24' x 8' Speakers are on short wall approx 4-4.5' in fromthe back wall and 3' from the side walls.   Listening position is about 8-9' from each speaker.
Speaker Setup:  Minimal Toe - In.  Woofers facing inward.  Outward gave too much of a response in the 30-40Hz range based on the frequency response graph my Velodyne puts out.  When I switched inward, the response reduced, but there is still a large peak, owing to the valleys in teh 20-30hz range and the 40-60Hz range.  I used the Velodyne to fill in these missing frequencies and flatten out the sub 80Hz response to almost +/- 4db.

I actually found that the only thing that seemed to matter most with these speakers was the height and angle.  It took me a good 2 hours of experimenting to find the right angle - I have it such that the back fo the speaker is 2" off the ground and the front is 2 and 5/16" off the ground.  

Hope this helps.

[OBF]

Thanks for the comments.  I've been most interested in these speakers but when I went to demo them the shop had them setup in the middle of their showroom and not in one of the smaller demo rooms, so there were no sidewalls and its hard to judge the bass in an irregular 1,000-1,500 ft2 room.  They did sound very good and seemed to image well, but I didn't hear any "magic" with that setup.

[KKM]

neoprufrok,

I see you're in the Bay area too? Where did you purchase them?

[neoprufrok]

Thanks for the comments.  I've been most interested in these speakers but when I went to demo them the shop had them setup in the middle of their showroom and not in one of the smaller demo rooms, so there were no sidewalls and its hard to judge the bass in an irregular 1,000-1,500 ft2 room.  They did sound very good and seemed to image well, but I didn't hear any "magic" with that setup.

Yeah, I think these speakers benefit from a mid sized to small room versus a huge space.  That being said, I auditioned them in a fairly big room (20 x 35 ft I think) and they sounded fine.  In that room, the woofers were firing to the side without the BAM, and it still sounded better than the Dali Helicon 400 and Wilson Benecsh Arc I was auditioning at the same time.

[neoprufrok]

neoprufrok,

I see you're in the Bay area too? Where did you purchase them?

I actually bought them from a dealer I know in Minnesota.  I used to live there and he's a great dealer with good prices.  Check him out... he's at www.soundvideo.com.

[zybar]

Steve (SoundVideo) is a great guy to deal with awesome prices and service.

Highly recommended.

George

[bob53]

Richard,

Good to hear you like your new Gallos!    I'm another happy owner and I too bought mine from Steve at SoundVideo...  I'm still waiting for the Gallo Center to come out...

My "list" of things to buy is slowing, but still draining on the wallet

1) Lexicon LX-7 amp (sounds really nice with the Gallos)
2) ACI sub
3) Gallo Center and Surrounds
4) Projector (Jenn is demanding this first)

Take care,

Bob

[neoprufrok]

Richard,

Good to hear you like your new Gallos!    I'm another happy owner and I too bought mine from Steve at SoundVideo...  I'm still waiting for the Gallo Center to come out...

My "list" of things to buy is slowing, but still draining on the wallet

1) Lexicon LX-7 amp (sounds really nice with the Gallos)
2) ACI sub
3) Gallo Center and Surrounds
4) Projector (Jenn is demanding this first)

Take care,

Bob

Hey Bob,

Sorry I haven' been able to return your messages... been busy at lab and Chi's parents are in town.  

I'm still in the middle of the break in process.  I'm betting that some of that treble emphasis will go away, as its fairly emphasized right now and the midrange is a little muddled - compared ot what I heard before.  Still tons better than my previous speaker, but I'd like for these two aspects to clear up.  Did you experience that too?

Oh yeah... nice list of things to get... knowing you, it will all happen in a month's time!  

I'll try to call you soon as I get a chance...

Later,
Rich

[sbayle]

As a former owner of 2 pairs of the original Gallo Nucleus References, (first the plastic balls, then the metal ones) which I thought were great speakers, I was really excited about hearing the new Ref 3s. But I was severely disappointed. The dealer agreed and said they were not broken in yet. I'm thinking it's been about 3 weeks maybe I should go back and give them another listen.

A couple of years ago I listened to the Gallo Dues and thought they were awful as well.

Maybe I just don't like Anthony's new version of the CDT.

I don't remember any break in time being necessary with the Gallo Nucleus Refs that I had - they sounded great immediately.

[nathanm]

I now have a surround setup with two pairs of the Nucleus Solos and I recently got a pair of the Reference IIIs.  I was eager to see how they would compare.  Both models retain the attribute I enjoy most about them: very wide, omni-present disperion pattern with excellent detail and clarity.  There is a tonal difference between the models however, which is to be expected.  The IIIs are a bit brighter than the Solos.  But I too seem to prefer the Solos in a way.

What I think may have happened is that they went from a very simple, nearly "idealistic" design with the balls to a more complicated 3-way design.  Personally I feel that the 10" woofer packed into that little saucepan, fancy schmantzy stuffing or no, is not an ideal enclosure.  It's a very thick, heavy speaker driver mounted in a really small space.  It reminds me of car audio woofers.  Overly damped is how I would describe the bass response.  They don't start givin' the love until you're into the cops-showing up SPL range in my opinion.  But also the response seems uneven.  There are a few notes that seem to boom out more than other.  Yes, of course room acoustics play a huge part in this, but still...

I don't have the customized 2nd voice coil amp but I did set them up with a similar arrangement: QSC power amp with a Behringer active XO.  My results so far have been...fuck, I just forgot to write a positive review in case I need to sell these things.  Shit!  Uh...so when I did add the extra amp THEY KICKED MAJOR ASS!!! Wooo!

No but seriously, I bet that the Gallo amp with it's phase and EQ controls probably gets you a more even response, but in my system, in my room I felt the bass was superior on the Solos.  I would rather have seen say a 16-20" sphere for the woofer with a port at the back.  But hey, Gallo's sales are limited by fickle females and their irrational hatred of cool looking speakers, so whaddaya gonna do?.  

But in all fairness I feel these speakers reproduce sound in a way that imitates real life moreso than boxier designs.  Like I said, it's like "omnipresent" sound.

[OBF]

Interesting and informative reviews.  It sounds like you're saying you like the Ref 3s better than most other speakers, but like the older solos better than the Ref 3s?

Do the solos produce as much bass, or just subjectively better?  Like I'm wondering if the Ref 3s are adequate by themselves and if this is true of the Solos as well, or whether you'd need to invest in a sub.

The idea of a time aligned 3 way with virutally no crossover is a neat one, but I wonder how much is marketing and how much is really ideal design.

I thought the ones I heard were very nice in the midrange, but I wasn't able to get a good feel for the bass because of the setup.

[nathanm]

Interesting and informative reviews. It sounds like you're saying you like the Ref 3s better than most other speakers, but like the older solos better than the Ref 3s?

Yes. However I should qualify that I didn't care for them at all in my heavily foamed, nearly square room as much as when they were given more space in my living room.  I think they need a good 3-4 feet all around at least.  I can only imagine how they would sound without being near any room boundaries, but unfortunately I don't have that luxury.  Like that guy from Six Moon's review - that gorgeous, open space - I bet they were awesome in there.  His rug is as big as my whole room!

Do the solos produce as much bass, or just subjectively better? Like I'm wondering if the Ref 3s are adequate by themselves and if this is true of the Solos as well, or whether you'd need to invest in a sub.

I would say yes, they both could be considered close to full range by themselves, but they fall short of what I am used to with my dual VMPS subs.  I have yet to meet any speaker that wasn't helped out with a subwoofer, but it depends on what you are going for.  I think the Solos have a bit "better" bass, if not necessarily "more" of it.  The IIIs will probably take more power though.  Unfortunately they don't make the spheres anymore which I think is a shame.  The 3-way tweeter boost\cut switch is VERY subtle, I think I'd have to have two guys stand there while I listen in order to really hear what's going on there.  But in any case the CDT tweeter is absolutely awesome.  I think they'd be better off with a smaller woofer though.

The idea of a time aligned 3 way with virutally no crossover is a neat one, but I wonder how much is marketing and how much is really ideal design.

Well they told us the Solos had no crossover either, but they do.  There's a transformer, a resistor and a cap in there.  But that doesn't mean it's automatically a bad thing, those gubbins are there for a reason obviously.   (There is a great post on Audio Asylum about a guy who took his Solos apart and he talks about what those things do.  It came in handy when I had to take mine apart to fix a loose binding post.)  I believe that stuff was there to prevent the amp seeing a 1ohm impedance drop or some such.

I was worried that the MTM arrangement might have more phasey, comb-filtering whatchamacallits going on, but it isn't a problem.  The IIIs act just like the Solos do.  When you are sitting you get great sound, you stand up you get a different flavor of great sound.  But the transition from sitting to standing gives you a weird little shift.  I am sure this would be easily revealed on a response plot taken at different angles.  But these things don't act like laser beams, or even flash lights.  They're nice big, soft, diffuse spheres of sound, just the way I like it.  Cripes, you play those killer Mapleshade recordings on these suckers loud enough and there's no doubt the performer is playing in your room.  Even walking up to the speaker doesn't diminish the illusion of depth.  I guess that's what they call "disappearing".

I thought the ones I heard were very nice in the midrange, but I wasn't able to get a good feel for the bass because of the setup.

Entirely possible.  The fact that their subwoofer amp has EQ controls seems to indicate that tweaking is necessary and that by itself the design might not cut the mustard.  For me there seems to be a suckout between the upper and lower bass frequencies, but hey I've only been listening to them for a few days so I'm sure my ears will be adapting.

[Val]

nathanm, I have plenty of experience with all the previous Solo and Reference versions, including the huge Ultimate (if I remember the name well) and I understand your liking their bass better, the Solo's Dynaudio woofer is a giant killer and the Reference dual woofers were even better.

I would like you to describe the differences you hear in soundstage height, if any. They should be similar, I guess, and the Solo wasn't a giant killer in that regard.

Lastly and regarding the IIIs sounding brighter, Martin G. DeWulf found that one can control the midrange/treble presence with back-tilt angle (more = warmer sound but less height; less = more presence and more height). I would like to read about your experience regarding this too.

Val

[OBF]

However I should qualify that I didn't care for them at all in my heavily foamed, nearly square room as much as when they were given more space in my living room. I think they need a good 3-4 feet all around at least.

Nathan, would you mind me asking the approx dimensions of your smaller, treated room?  My current room is 18x24 and when I move it may be more like 16x20.  Right now I have a good 5' on either side of my speakers (on the short wall), but this may decrease once I move.

[jeffreybehr]

Nathan, pls post a link to the Gallo-crossover-parts thread; I couldn't find it.

[nathanm]

I know, I had a tough time finding it myself!  But here it is.  Kendrick Pavey is the author.  Thanks man, if you're out there!

http://db.AudioAsylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=speakers&n=119853&highlight=gallo+solo+rivets&r=&session=

My sigfile below has links to my system wherein my room dimensions may be found.  My living room is 14x15x7 or so, but with many openings.  I would almost venture a guess that the Gallos may sound better in a more live, reflective space than in a very damped one, but that's pure speculation.

The IIIs are very short, unobtrusive speakers.  They are a little below waist-height.  Consequently the soundstage height is fairly low, but titling them does change this.  I did the same thing with the spheres as best I could, putting the rear spikes all the way in and the front spikes as long as possible.  I wanted to try putting the IIIs on cinder blocks, which would probably put the Solos' tweeter and the III's tweeter at the same height.  The provided cones have two heights, indicating that tilt back is encouraged.

Some hardcore punter on Audiogon went whole hog on his Gallos and moved the tweeter just behind the woofer.  Not a terribly attractive arrangement, but it would be interesting to hear the difference with the tweeter closer to the woofer.  Not that it sounds "wrong" stock though.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1082316695&read&keyw&zzgallo

[jeffreybehr]

Hmm...not much info specific to the Ref. IIIs in that thread.  I'd love to see a schematic diagram of the R.III's crossover.