[sonorsnoopy]

Which one does imaging / presence / sound staging / openness the most?

Many amps put the performers behind or inbetween the speakers. I want them to be in front of the speakers.

What would you recommend?

Clones Audio (gain clone, reviews say its better than the bantam gold)
TPA3116
CLASS A
Bantam Gold (Gainclone)
... ???

Btw. I have had the CROWN XLS 1500 and it was dynamic and had good imaging, but the performers were behind the speakers, lacking openness / upper treble, it was clearly better with the XLR (4,2V) input than with my chord hugo SE 3V input, and it was better at higher volumes, and hissing on idle. IMO this amp is better for low efficiency speakers and balanced input only.

[beowulf]

Have you thought about Class A SET or SEP circuits?  The Decware Super Zen Triode and Taboo MK II has given me better imaging that any other amps I've used including Class A MOSFET, Class A/B and Class D, amps that I have had through my system.  The have some great synergy with Omega as well, it's like they were almost made for each other.

[Folsom]

The TPA3116 isn't an SS, it's class D.

I don't know if anyone has tried a TDA7297 amp on Omega's, could be quiet pleasant.

[sonorsnoopy]

I need to have lightweight amplifiers as I relocate a lot (air travel / every 4 years) . The only possible option would be the dennis had inspire amp but as far as I know one need to buy a Berning ZH230 (expensive / rare) to have that 3d tube staging and imaging AND PRAT, dynamics + bass control. All other high performance tube amps are pretty heavy and expensive. I have french single drivers (davis acoustics 20de8 - nominal 8 ohm, 7 ohm average, 4 ohm in the bass region, 92db, alnico, and I put them in open baffles - wherever I am) and they love some juice, so 2 Watts would be too little. If a used inspire amp comes up for sale in europe I would buy it.

For now I am looking into Clones audio 25ir and Benchmark AHB2 amps on the used market. But that "in front of speaker" staging capability is my goal no.1  According to the forum talk the TBI MG3 amps can do that, but they are rare on the european used market and I think there are more sophisticated designs on the market.

The question is if there are big differences between the SS / Class D offerings in that regard or if I have to go tubes anyway. A lot of people migrate from tubes to SS nowadays - so I suppose that they can't be that great (and most of them have big problems with stability / demanding music)

[Canada Rob]

Which one does imaging / presence / sound staging / openness the most?

Many amps put the performers behind or inbetween the speakers. I want them to be in front of the speakers.

What would you recommend?

Clones Audio (gain clone, reviews say its better than the bantam gold)
TPA3116
CLASS A
Bantam Gold (Gainclone)
... ???

Btw. I have had the CROWN XLS 1500 and it was dynamic and had good imaging, but the performers were behind the speakers, lacking openness / upper treble, it was clearly better with the XLR (4,2V) input than with my chord hugo SE 3V input, and it was better at higher volumes, and hissing on idle. IMO this amp is better for low efficiency speakers and balanced input only.

Hi sonorsnoopy and welcome to the Omega AudioCircle.

Hope I can help with some of your questions.  I am unaware of a direct comparison review where the 25i is preferred over the Class D Bantam Gold (gain clones are Class A/B), and even if the 25i is better, it should be at over three times the price.  The Bantam Gold also has the advantage of three different types of power source, so other than cost, the upgrade path is painless.  The Bantam Gold is stunning sounding with Omega speakers.  One of our regular posters has a Had SEP and he says his Bantam Gold comes pretty close in sound quality.

As far as soundstaging goes, the idea is to replicate the original recording venue as faithfully as possible and about the only place I can think of where the lead singer could be 5' - 6' away is in a nightclub and you're at the front table.  Other than that, the lead singer would be about 20+' away.  Most properly set up systems are going to place the lead singer midway between and behind the speakers without loss of highs, space, or detail. 

The Bantam Gold, Class A, and Class A/B gain clones (on Omegas) will likely give you soundstaging with the lead singer behind the speakers, but no loss of highs, space, or detail.  The TPA3116 may move the singer out in front.  My red board TPA3116 has a pretty sizzley top end so it might do it.

You might correct me on this, but looking at the specs of the current Chord Hugo, the output voltage is only 1 volt which is not enough for low and flea powered amps.  Minimum 2 volts is generally the standard output for a digital source.

[Canada Rob]

I need to have lightweight amplifiers as I relocate a lot (air travel / every 4 years) . The only possible option would be the dennis had inspire amp but as far as I know one need to buy a Berning ZH230 (expensive / rare) to have that 3d tube staging and imaging AND PRAT, dynamics + bass control. All other high performance tube amps are pretty heavy and expensive. I have french single drivers (davis acoustics 20de8 - nominal 8 ohm, 7 ohm average, 4 ohm in the bass region, 92db, alnico, and I put them in open baffles - wherever I am) and they love some juice, so 2 Watts would be too little. If a used inspire amp comes up for sale in europe I would buy it.

For now I am looking into Clones audio 25ir and Benchmark AHB2 amps on the used market. But that "in front of speaker" staging capability is my goal no.1  According to the forum talk the TBI MG3 amps can do that, but they are rare on the european used market and I think there are more sophisticated designs on the market.

The question is if there are big differences between the SS / Class D offerings in that regard or if I have to go tubes anyway. A lot of people migrate from tubes to SS nowadays - so I suppose that they can't be that great (and most of them have big problems with stability / demanding music)

sonorsnoopy,

If you're looking for a nice "travel" system, I would probably go solid state unless the tube amp is really well built (Decware, Ideal, Vaughn Carina (used market only), Dennis Had.  Chassis mounted tubes and point to point wiring are a must if subjected to the punishment of shippers. 

If I were having to pull up roots on a regular basis I would look for the maximum performance package in the most compact format.  You already have the Hugo, so you're covered for a front end if your choice of amp and speakers can overcome the Hugo's low output voltage (someone please correct me on this output voltage if I'm wrong - I hate misinformation).  For the money, along with it's small size, the Bantam Gold is going to be hard to beat (the new Bantam 1 is about to be released, with twice the power may be a better choice for your Hugo.  If you plan to run a fast musical sub I would go with the Super 3i.  No sub, the Super 3XRS (tiny tower), Super 3U Monitor (no longer on the site, but Louis will still build them), or Super 7 Monitor, or maybe one of his compact OutLaw speakers.

You say your speakers are 92dB but power hungry.  That doesn't add up.  I run 93dB Omega Alnicos on a 1.5w/ch SET with plenty of power, PRAT, and nice tuneful tight bass, not to mention an insane soundstage. 

I am unaware of any statistics regarding people migrating from tubes to solid state, in fact if you haunt the Omega forum the leaning is toward tubes.  A well designed, well built tube amp is stable and great sounding, and will last as long as any solid state amp.  Decware puts a lifetime warranty on theirs.  Bryston solid state amps have the next best that I know of at 20 years.  The first Decware SE84 from about 20 years ago is upgradable to current status for a pretty modest cost.

[Rocket]

Hi,

Have you also considered a Virtue Audio One.3 tripath amplifier.  I have one in my second system and it sounds very good.

http://store.virtueaudio.com/product-p/vrtu-ia-vaone.3-pbf-1.htm

http://store.virtueaudio.com/category-s/38.htm

Cheers Rod

[sonorsnoopy]

TPA3116, Virtue one.3, Virtue Sensation are on my list. I would like to see a lightweight amplifier with zero negative feedback - any clue? (YES I will try the dennis had inspire KT150 amp when it comes up on the used market)


Sensitivity: Tannoys for instance have 93 tp 95 db and they like to see some current as well. My previous experience with tubes (not on my current speakers) is that they are wonderful with "easy show demo" music but they loose it all with complex music. The beautiful thing with live music is the utterly stable microdynamic contrast. Tubes are unstable and what you gain is "lively = unstable" sound.

The chord hugo max output is 4.8V but the best SQ setting is 3V (btw. I made RCA - speaker cables to connect the hugo directly to the speakers because a few people reported good results on head-fi - but it was´t a good match). I would also buy a amp/dac in the price range of the devialet but I have heard it several times with 89db Speakers and it was not good (compared to separates).

[sonorsnoopy]

I have ordered a Nuforce Optoma STA-200 amp on amazon, which is a job 225 made by Optoma / Nuforce. I will report back.

Also on my list
Soulnote SA710 zero negative feedback amp