Yggdrasil Review in Computer Audiophile

abernardi · « **Reply #20 on:** 27 Dec 2015, 04:55 am »

OK, so today I tried a little experimentation. I had heard something about the balanced outputs on the Yggdrasil are better than the single ended. I didn't have a pair of balanced interconnects, but I did have some cheap xlr to rca interconnects. I tried that and there was a very subtle difference. The high end and very low end in general sounded a slightly more energetic. The dryness I mentioned in my earlier posts lifted a little. At first I thought it was more dramatic, but then I matched levels and was able to A/B it and it's very slight. I would actually attribute it to the difference in cables if I had to guess. As I listened more, they both had their positive and negative qualities. For the time being I'm leaving the xlr - rca IC's in.

I then tried coming into the DAC differently. Up to now my source has been a Mac Mini running Audirvana going straight to the DAC via a good USB cable. I put a Stello U3 into the loop, so now it's Mac Mini > Stello U3 > Yggdrasil via the AES/EBU input. All I had was a decent 15' microphone cable for this, but I'm getting sound so I thought I'd listen for a while. This is harder to A/B because I have to swap out too much to really do it effectively. My impression so far is a slightly more balanced and natural presentation. I have to listen more to both ways before I can report more.

JLM · « **Reply #21 on:** 27 Dec 2015, 10:57 am »

Can someone clarify...

Would balanced gear output balanced using XLR to RCA cables (into single ended gear)? That's what I use currently just because I had the cables from when that was my only option and I like the latching XLR connectors.

I seem to have read that to really get balance performance both pieces would have to be "natively" designed as balanced and be connected via XLR to XLR cables.

So to do a completely valid balanced versus single ended comparison you'd need preamp/power or integrated amp that was truly balanced design that had both XLR and RCA outputs/inputs.

paul79 · « **Reply #22 on:** 27 Dec 2015, 03:36 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 27 Dec 2015, 10:57 am

Can someone clarify...

Would balanced gear output balanced using XLR to RCA cables (into single ended gear)?

Nope. It would have to be converted properly, and an adapter won't do this, unless said adapter has a proper signal transformer to do the job. A simple adapter may give you a taste at hearing the better balanced circuit, but you will not hear it for all it is worth without converting.

newzooreview · « **Reply #23 on:** 27 Dec 2015, 04:23 pm »

Quote from: paul79 on 27 Dec 2015, 03:36 pm

Nope. It would have to be converted properly, and an adapter won't do this, unless said adapter has a proper signal transformer to do the job. A simple adapter may give you a taste at hearing the better balanced circuit, but you will not hear it for all it is worth without converting.

So where does one obtain a "proper signal transformer"?

I asked Pete at Triode Wire Labs to build a pair of XLR to RCA interconnects with a resistor to match the input impedance of my pre-amp. This sounds significantly better than the RCA output from the Yggdrasil. However, this recommendation for using a transformer has cropped up in another forum as well. Where can one that is ready to use for this purpose be obtained? Has anyone actually tried it?

paul79 · « **Reply #24 on:** 27 Dec 2015, 04:29 pm »

I made my own. I have tried it multiple times on multiple DAC's. Great results each and every time!! Totaldac makes one that uses nice amorphous core transformers. Empirical Audio makes one called the Final Drive. Both offer trial.

Here is the kicker.... If you want the best results, the best transformers are required. The really good signal transformers do not degrade sound quality at all, and will in most cases give better sound than even going into a ready balanced preamp directly!

Another requirement of your DAC is plenty of drive capability. Pretty sure the Yggy is fine in this regard.

newzooreview · « **Reply #25 on:** 27 Dec 2015, 05:13 pm »

Quote from: paul79 on 27 Dec 2015, 04:29 pm

I made my own. I have tried it multiple times on multiple DAC's. Great results each and every time!! Totaldac makes one that uses nice amorphous core transformers. Empirical Audio makes one called the Final Drive. Both offer trial.

Here is the kicker.... If you want the best results, the best transformers are required. The really good signal transformers do not degrade sound quality at all, and will in most cases give better sound than even going into a ready balanced preamp directly!

Another requirement of your DAC is plenty of drive capability. Pretty sure the Yggy is fine in this regard.

Thanks! The Final Drive costs more than the Yggdrasil, so I'm not sure it makes sense to go that route.

On the TotalDac website, in the prices section, there is reference to

Quote

Accessories:
-pair of XLR to RCA adaptor special made for d1-dual and d1-monobloc: 650euros incl VAT in EU, 600euros excl VAT out of EU

Is this their balanced to unbalanced transformer? If not, do you have link to information and pricing?

Many thanks.

paul79 · « **Reply #26 on:** 27 Dec 2015, 05:54 pm »

Yes, that is it.... You might contact Vincent and let him know the particulars of your DAC just to make sure everything is good to go.

newzooreview · « **Reply #27 on:** 27 Dec 2015, 06:11 pm »

Quote from: paul79 on 27 Dec 2015, 05:54 pm

Yes, that is it.... You might contact Vincent and let him know the particulars of your DAC just to make sure everything is good to go.

Thank you. I did write him an e-mail with the particulars of my DAC and pre-amp. I also noticed this lower-cost option: http://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/pc-2xr/

It seems like the TotalDac is better made for the purpose, but perhaps someone will prefer something less expensive.

newzooreview · « **Reply #28 on:** 27 Dec 2015, 08:22 pm »

Vincent from TotalDac replied, and he directed me to a link on his website where the XLR-RCA adaptor is shown at the bottom: http://www.totaldac.com/REFERENCE-D1-eng.htm

There's no technical information, but he does confirm that it should work just fine for the Yggdrasil output impedance and voltage.

paul79 · « **Reply #29 on:** 27 Dec 2015, 08:38 pm »

That is a cheaper alternative (the Jensen) but for best results, you can't skimp here. Not to mention, with the Jensen, you lose 10db...

JLM · « **Reply #30 on:** 28 Dec 2015, 12:11 pm »

Here's a link from the AC Lab circle that helps to explain XLR to RCA conversion:

http://www.rane.com/note110.html

rif · « **Reply #31 on:** 28 Dec 2015, 06:05 pm »

ART audio makes one. I have no experience with it.

http://www.parts-express.com/art-cleanboxpro-stereo-balanced-unbalanced-converter--245-868

MttBsh · « **Reply #32 on:** 29 Dec 2015, 05:22 am »

Quote from: rif on 28 Dec 2015, 06:05 pm

ART audio makes one. I have no experience with it.

http://www.parts-express.com/art-cleanboxpro-stereo-balanced-unbalanced-converter--245-868

The Final Drive converter: $3000.00
The Art Audio converter: $65.00

I'm afraid the Art Audio converter would fall deeply into paul79's "skimping" classification.

However, spending anywhere near $3000 to take advantage of the Yggy's balanced circuitry seems quite "unbalanced" to me.

I have just learned first hand that improving the source feeding your Yggy can make a big difference. The DAC has untapped potential if you aren't using a high quality front end. So if you have some cash on hand to bring out the best in your Yggy, that's where I would put it.

abernardi · « **Reply #33 on:** 29 Dec 2015, 06:08 am »

Well, it's been about 7 days now, I've been letting it play continuously. Some interesting things seem to be happening. Tonight I noticed the low end is blooming more and going very deep. It's potent. And it was no slouch before tonight. I'm also feeling more drawn into the music than ever, every sound is distinct and unique to itself, very present and real sounding. It still doesn't have the "grand" presentation of the Ref 7.1, it's smaller, but it's very very distinct. It just might be accurate, sheesh, imagine that!

I played the excellent soundtrack for the Walter Salles film, "Behind The Sun" by Antonio Pinto. I know this score very well and how it sounded in the mix first hand. This was the closest to the mix that I've ever heard it. It had about 90% of the raw impact I heard in the mix. That's saying something because nothing else has come close.

I also played one of my favorite albums, "Speaking in Melodies" by Michael Ruff. This is a Sheffield direct to 2/track recording and is very dynamic. I also have the LP, which is incredible. The CD through the Yggdrasil was very close. In "I Will Find You There", there are moments when the bass has this growl and breadth that makes you feel like you just jumped out of an airplane. The Yggdrasil got about 90% of that too. Not quite all of it, but pretty damn close.

Any thoughts on SPDIF vs AES/EBU? There's some talk about it on headfi, but no concensus.

paul79 · « **Reply #34 on:** 29 Dec 2015, 06:21 am »

Quote from: MttBsh on 29 Dec 2015, 05:22 am

The Final Drive converter: $3000.00
The Art Audio converter: $65.00
Don't forget the Totaldac option... About $700US

I'm afraid the Art Audio converter would fall deeply into paul79's "skimping" classification.

However, spending anywhere near $3000 to take advantage of the Yggy's balanced circuitry seems quite "unbalanced" to me.

I don't disagree with your statement regarding the Final Drive, nor a better digital source, but it would be one of the "best" transformers to do the job. However, the Totaldac Transformer is very good also, and much more affordable. I mentioned it also!! Is there some reason you chose to compare extremes mentioning only those 2 available options?

I would absolutely spend the $700 if indeed the balanced output of the Yggy is superior. Pretty sure it would best any cable upgrade you could do in this scenario....

MttBsh · « **Reply #35 on:** 29 Dec 2015, 05:25 pm »

Sorry, I hadn't seen the price on the Total Dac XLR to RCA converter:
"pair of XLR to RCA adaptor special made for d1-dual and d1-monobloc: 650euros incl VAT in EU, 600euros excl VAT out of EU"

At that price, I will consider buying a pair to extract better sound from my Yggy as my preamp is RCA only. Thanks for the tip!

paul79 · « **Reply #36 on:** 29 Dec 2015, 05:39 pm »

Cool. Someone really should try this, and post findings.... I'm very sure it will be excellent, but verification with the Yggy would be nice for people to see.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #37 on:** 29 Dec 2015, 05:52 pm »

You can probably start getting into a single ended Lampi DAC (just for example) for the price of Yggy + a good Bal > SE converter. I'd suggest that a converter is waste vs just using all balanced or all single ended components from the start...

paul79 · « **Reply #38 on:** 2 Jan 2016, 12:11 am »

I see your point, but it is very handy to have the transformers anyways, in case a certain DAC strikes someone's interest in the future. Kind of like having good tools in the box. The transformers also provide a layer of isolation that is also beneficial.

maxima95 · « **Reply #39 on:** 2 Jan 2016, 05:11 pm »

Some information to wade through.

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=digital&m=179068