[streetshooter]

I have had difficulties installing my new turntable, a Pro-Ject Xtension 9 Evolution tonearm and Sumiko Blue Point Special EVO III (low output) MC.

I paid a professional installer over $1000 to set up the TT.  This included repositioning and re-cabling all the equipment in my cabinet to make the pre-processor with phono input closer to where I positioned my new turntable.  I think this TT was above his skill level. 

First, the magnetic feet are tricky.  The factory sends them to you supposedly calibrated. 
They even mark them back, front-left and front-right.  Yes, that’s right: three feet. 
It works for me being a photographer and using a tripod.  Three feet are guaranteed to all hit the ground whereas four feet are not and you can get vibration with one foot too high. 

But from the factory the plinth did not come to level when I put the feet on.    The problem is the installation manual is written by a non-English speaking person  and is useless. 
After a month of effort I finally got the plinth level myself.  This was after hiring the pro installer who ended up having me put one foot on several playing cards to bring the thing level.
 
Long story short I managed to level the plinth without playing cards after the installer left.  I won’t be calling him back.  BUT there is a mechanical noise coming through the speakers in the silent moments.  I can hear this noise at listening level 65db so it's not loud but it is there and disturbing. 

Sumiko, the North American distributor of Pro-Ject suggested bearing oil on the platter bearing.  I tried that but no difference.  Some of this noise is coming from the LP’s themselves as it is quieter on the “silent groove” of the Ultimate LP Test Record, which is a 180 gram pressing. 

My cartridge is not yet broken in but I don’t think that has anything to do with the unwanted noise.  This noise is playing all the time but I can only hear it when there is no sound coming from the record.  But listening to Wagner Gotterdammerung on a Sheffield direct-to-disk pressing which has a lot of dynamic range and gets absolutely quiet at times this noise is unacceptable and pisses me off.
   
Just the other day I bought a digital stylus force gauge, the Dr. Fiekhert protractor and plan to re-align the cartridge from the beginning now that the plinth is level since I think the order of operations is important here.  My "proessional” installer did nothing with the azimuth adjustment.  Said they always come correct right from the factory. 

Sumiko suggests installing the tonearm with a rake.  In other words the arm tilts up with respect to the platter.  But my installer just eyeballed it and settled on an arbitrary angle of tonearm to platter. 
I got Michael Fremer’s turntable installation DVD and he measures the angle of the tonearm with a little ruler and adjusts it incrementally, a millimeter at a time, and listens between each adjustment.  I will follow Fremer’s example in determining the angle between arm and platter.

My installer also selected impedance setting on the phono stage as recommended by Sumiko but he did not listen between settings for which setting gave the best sound.
 
My hope is that with a very careful install I can eliminate the mechanical sound but I have my doubts.  It appears to sound louder in the left channel than the right channel and it is worse on LPs that are not plane, i.e., where the arm can be seen to go up and down as the record spins.  Since it may be the sound of the needle in the groove and it is louder in left than right I am suspecting azimuth adjustment.  There is a Fosgometer at Audio Advisor to adjust azimuth.  It costs $300 and I will use it once so I'm hesitating buying it until I do the install carefully from the beginning.

Any advise from this forum would be appreciated.  The low output cartridge is so new there are no reviews on it even though its older brother, Sumiko BPS EVO III (high output) gets wonderful reviews from The Absolute sound.  I wonder what others using the low output BBS EVO III have experienced.   

[Wayner]

I believe that there are at least 3 things going on here.

#1, louder noise on the left channel is an indicator to me that your anti-skating is not correct and is favoring a pull towards the inner groove. So, there is not enough AS applied.

#2, I read no mention of a mat, and to be honest, that TT is not that quiet, so a mat is required (IMO) to reduce some of the patter noise that may come up thru the record itself.

#3, you are running an MC cart that will require loading on the coils to make it conform to the RIAA curve that all records use. If the resulting curve is not flat, HF may be exaggerated and excessive surface noise is one of the suspects.

I'm too lazy to go look up the recommended loading for your MC (you can go do that), but that might knock down the surface noise just to start with.

Oh, and I see you didn't mention what phono preamp you are using either. Its all part of the chain......

[streetshooter]

phono stage is Pro-Ject Tube box S.

[streetshooter]

Yes no record mat.  The Xtension 9 has old vinyl records melted and pressed into a "mat" which is the surface for the LP playing.
They recommended not using another mat so I followed their recommendations.  I could easily try a mat though and see if it makes a difference.
Cost would be nominal.  I'm still digesting your other recommendations.  Thank you very much.  It is so good to be able to reach out to other
audio nerds and get your advise and suggestions.  I LOVE the internet.  It's as good as having the best library in the world at your fingertips.

[Wayner]

As far as I can tell, the Sumiko BPS EVO III is a high output MC cartridge and that cartridge needs to run as an moving magnet cartridge as it has an output of 2.5mv (too high for LOMC phono preamps). So, I trust that you have your preamp set to MM input.......(47K ohm loading)

'ner

[Wayner]

I can't find your cartridge in LOMC.....

[streetshooter]

Blue Point Special EVO III (Low output) is brand new cartridge which is bundled with the Xtension 9.
It's so new there is no data or reviews for it.  Sumiko didn't even have a manual yet for it.
But they printed the relevant data on the outside packaging.
I think it outputs 0.5 millevolts rather than 2.5 mv output by the older high output BPS.
Thus I needed the Tube Box S phono stage.  Otherwise I could have plugged the high output right into the MM phono input of the preamp.

All the info I needed (I think) is the
Load Impedance > 100 ohms and
Tracking force 1.8 grams to 2.2 (I set it at 2.0 initially as being middle of the road)
Cartridge weight = 8.3 grams which determines which counterweight to use on the tone arm.

[Minn Mark]

BPS Lo MC details here...

http://www.needledoctor.com/Sumiko-Blue-Point-Special-Evo-III-Lo-MC-Phono-Cartridge


Mark

[streetshooter]

If you read carefully on the Needle Doctor link provided the data given is for the High Output (2.5 mv) cartridge, not the low output cart.
The only data specific to this low output MC is printed on the box the cart came in.  So far anyway.
They promise data to follow and ask you call Needle Doctor for specifics.

[Minn Mark]

Follow the link and click on the features/specs tab. The output (LOMC) is 0.5 mV with load >100 ohms, etc.

Sorry, I thought the link would take you directly to the specs location.

Mark   

[streetshooter]

Needle Doctor has a little of each.  Description (your link Minn Mark) is for the high output version.
Spec sheet is for the low output version and is the exact data printed on the side of the box the cart came in.
With this MC Needle Doctor said to START with 100 ohms and then try 1K ohms loading and listen for improvement.  Then try 2K ohms and listen.  Finally select which sounds best to you.

There is now one review of the low output cart:
"Fantastic cartridge. The low output mc is a bit faster than the hi output version. More control tighter bass. Love it!"

It makes sense that the low output MC would be a more responsive engine since it has fewer windings and thus lower output.  Fewer windings translates to less mass.
Since the force to overcome inertia is a function of mass this should be a more responsive cart (reviewer said it was "faster") than the high output version.  The trade-off is now you need a phono stage with whatever distortion and additional expense it brings with it. 

[neobop]

Hello Streetshooter,
Welcome to Vinyl Circle, home of the politically correct vinylists.   

I'm trying to get a handle on this mechanical noise you're talking about.  You say it's always there, but the music masks it.  Hard to tell from a distance, but maybe we can narrow it down.  If we try to eliminate tracking noise due to anti-skate and/or azimuth, that leaves few other possibilities.  I'm guessing tube noise, but I'm skipping ahead. 
Azimuth is adjusted on your arm by a little screw near the back of the arm tube on the outside.  Consult your owners manual.   
Watch the cart from the front while tracking and adjust to level.  Do you have anti-skate set, and is sound unbalanced channel to channel?

Tube noise is still best guess.
neo

[streetshooter]

would not tube noise be equivalent in both left and right channels? 

[streetshooter]

but there are two tubes in my Tube Box S.
If one is for left channel and one is for right channel I should be able to switch the tubes and the noise should then appear louder in the right channel instead of the left.
I have to look at the Pro-ject tube box S and see how to remove the tube guards and then switch the tubes.  But this is an easy thing to do and I will try it.  Thank you.

http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=tubeboxs&cat=boxe

[neobop]

Maybe I'm too late, but you can check it by switching R/L phono cable at the phono stage.  See if the greater noise switches channels.
neo

[streetshooter]

yes of course.  much easier way.  thanks
The weekend and time to play is here and I won't get to it till next week at the earliest.

For azimuth adjustment the Evolution arm rotates in its cradle by loosening one screw.
I can check azimuth with Fozgometer ($300) 

[Wayner]

You can check it with a flat mirror too.



Look at your cartridge/stylus/cantilever at the same time you look at the image in the mirror. Both should appear straight to each other. This technique doubles the error.

'ner

[Austin08]

I had the exact same table and cart like OP. Never heard any mechanical noise. I bough them new at local store- Overture, NJ. They did a wonderful job of setting them up. Compare to my last VPI Sc2 + Zephyr2 set up, the Project and Evo is a bit more refine and softer and clearer midrange but VPI+ Zephyr is more dynamic and bass definition. I use them in the same system with same Ayre Phono preamp.

[NekoAudio]

I have an Xtension 10 here, but with the Blackbird low output moving coil and haven't heard the issues you describe. But then it also sounds like your installer might have really set it up poorly.

You should be able to rotate the bottoms of the feet on the plinth in order to get everything level, and use a regular bubble level to make sure it's correct. I'm not sure how you went about doing it so I just mention this in case you did something else.

If you're not sure if your installer calibrated the arm and cartridge correctly, you should try correcting it yourself or find someone who can help. Make sure you've got the right counterweight installed on the back, the anti-skate weight attached properly, and get the tonearm with cartridge horizontal before doing further adjustments. Then you can use the protractor to fix overhang and alignment, and the force gauge to fix VTF.

Azimuth does not come correct from the factory.

The electrical meter is better than a mirror for adjusting azimuth (use an allen wrench to loosen the screw on the back of the tonearm, behind the pivot housing, after which you can rotate the tonearm), but better than that is actual phase measurements using Adjust+. A meter is better than a mirror because the meter will account for the internals of the cartridge whereas the mirror only looks at the stylus relative to the shell. And Adjust+ is better than the meter because phase might still be many degrees apart while amplitude is almost equal, and phase is what you really want to get right.

Your Tube Box S settings are probably fine if matched against the manual's recommended settings if you don't want to go through trying a bunch of different settings.

It is possible there is tube noise in just one channel due to only one tube being bad. But I'm kind of guessing something else is just set up incorrectly which is creating noise.

[mfsoa]

My Perspective Carbon AT440mla sounds much better without the anti-skate weight attached. I know it's "wrong" but the difference is very obvious.

Has nothing to do with your noise issue but give it a shot if you want a huge increase in sound quality for free once the noise is ironed out.

Or not.

-Mike