Amplifier epiphany!

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mresseguie

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Amplifier epiphany!
« on: 27 Oct 2015, 08:26 am »
I realized a long time ago that (usually) a lot of time, effort, exposure, and experiences are needed to fully grasp a concept or idea. [This concept or idea might be an idea, a level of knowledge, a fluency level in a foreign language, an deep understanding of whatever the task at hand is, etc.]

It's been about three years since I restarted my addic.....uh....journey into audiophoolery. I'm not really an audiophile, I think. When I observe those who I consider to be audiophiles, I realize I'm more an enthusiast, but I digress. In this period I have gone from thinking that any amp that supplies approximately 100 watts of power is enough for any situation I might find myself in to understanding there are different classes of power (A, AB, D, T. etc.) and tubes, hybrids, and solid state. Additionally, there really is a difference in quality of parts, caps, power supplies, etc. I think I'm getting close to a pretty high level of understanding of this audio world.

Yesterday, I was wandering the streets of a certain area of Taipei that is better known for computers than audio, but perhaps 5% of the shops specialize in audio. Of that 5% most shops deal with the sort of audio/electronics that appeal more to the mass market or (as I like to think of it) the young'uns, but a very few shops cater to the folks who don't shy away from dropping serious coin on high quality famous brands. As I was preparing to leave this area, I stopped into a convenience store for a drink. [Remind me to tell you all about how incredible convenience stores are in Taiwan. It boggles the mind.] As I walked out with drink in hand; raised to my mouth to greedily swallow the contents, I glanced across the street and spied several signs advertising well known audio brands like B&W, Audio Research, etc. I hadn't noticed these signs before. Huh. I walked right into the shop and immediately saw several pairs of speakers lined up along the right wall. "Bummer," I said to myself. These same brands are peppered all over Taiwan in what I consider to be 'entry level to almost mid-level' audio shops. Speakers range in price from $400/pr to $1500/pr - Wharfedale, Castle, Chaco (sp?), Dynaudio and others. I nearly turned around, but kept going because I realized those speakers occupied less than 1/3 of the front room.

The further back I went, the larger the speakers got. Electronics were limited (very limited) to a Cambridge Audio Minx and a plain Jane looking amp I had never seen before. By this time a youngish (mid-20s) salesman had engaged me in conversation asking me what I was looking for. I told him amps since I still hadn't liked the looks of the speakers - especially considering how much I like the ones I have already. The guy foolishly tried to interest me in the Cambridge Audio Minx (70w/ch) immediately after I told him my current amp has 100w/ch and that I wanted more power.  :duh: That was almost enough to get me to run away, but another guy came along (mid-40s) who started talking rapidly and very enthusiastically about the plain Jane looking amp. He offered to play some songs on a pair of B&W 801 speakers. I listened because I'd never heard these speakers before. The music sounded great, of course, but it meant nothing to me since I'd never heard the speakers before and the music was unfamiliar. After I showed him a picture of my LS/5-R speakers, he switched the B&Ws out for a pair of Dynaudio Excite X12  bookshelf speakers.

"Great," I thought, I've heard these speakers twice in the last 1 1/2 years and didn't like them either time! The first time they were powered by a McIntosh amp in a nice showroom; the second time was in a bad room at 2014 Axpona. I braced myself for a third unexceptional session with these. Unfamiliar classical music was played and.... WOW! Holy Shit! These sound fantastic! I can't believe how great they sound. The power, the sound stage, the clarity.....Where the hell did that concert hall come from?....Yes. That good. If I had walked into this room 3+ years ago, I would have bought the speakers on the spot only to be sorely disappointed when I got home because of the amp I had at the time. Why did they sound so good? Well, most of you know why - the amp and preamp are fantastic. The amp and preamp were both manufactured in the back room of this shop. These are the plain Jane looking amps that I had seen earlier. The mid-40s guy is the manager in charge of the amp/preamp/DAC production department and really knows his amps. The younger guy meant well, but almost blew it.

He showed me different amps that were in different stages of completion. One after another he proudly declared the caps were high quality German made - nothing from China or Taiwan, high quality wiring, special soldering (learned a new word in Chinese!). Memories surfaced of times I had seen pictures of the insides of Odyssey amps, Modwright amps, and maybe AVA amps, and a couple other amps whose names escape me. Giant rows of BIG blue caps, heat sinks, power supplies. I had stumbled upon the Taiwanese equivalent of Odyssey or Modwright (or whomever). Imagine Klaus excitedly talking about his babies in Mandarin. Yep. That's what I had found yesterday. Is this what Pass Labs amps are like?

The amp powering the Dynaudio X12 speakers was 200w/ch solid state. The preamp was tubes. The DAC was whatever the Philips CD880 player had. The sound was amazing.

But wait - there's more! Now the manager excitedly mentions that they also do crossover upgrades for speakers that folks bring in. And, get this, he's got a pair of the Dynaudio X12s with upgraded crossovers that he can bring out for comparison! [I'll bet he would have cried if I had said I wasn't interested - but I was very interested.] He brought them out and started playing the same music. They sounded better but I couldn't place my finger on the difference, so he attached the original to the right and the upgraded to the left. There was no mono switch, but the difference was more than clear enough. Finally, after reading about crossover upgrades here on AC (and elsewhere), I get to hear them in action on different pairs of the same speakers! Awesome.  :thumb:

I have stumbled upon the mother lode thanks to my craving a sports drink (Super Shupao). Very cool!

I suppose I should tell you the name of the company now, and the name of their amps so you can rush into the internet to check out the website....in Chinese. Yeah. There aren't any nasty viruses hanging round their website, so go ahead and blindly click on different choices. Or you might be able to use Google Translate to get some really interesting translations. Or, some of you are Chinese/Taiwanese/Singaporean....

Drum roll please....

The name of the company is Yoson Audio. It's been in business since 1973. Link:http://www.yosonaudio.com.tw

Their amps/pres/DACs are the Descartes models.

If you have questions about the website or amps, ask here and I'll post links or info.

I'm going to return to the shop in a week or so with my Fritz speakers. When I told the guy I had to experience their amps with my speakers, he told me to bring them in. I can't wait. This is going to be so so cool. Well, I have to wait because we're heading to the southern part of the island for a few days to visit friends and dodge the Dengue Fever mosquitoes.

Sorry you had to put up with my long-winded monologue. Enjoy!

Michael
« Last Edit: 27 Oct 2015, 09:40 am by mresseguie »

JohnR

Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #1 on: 27 Oct 2015, 08:51 am »
Hi Michael, welcome to my time zone... more or less :)  :thumb:

Looking forward to reading more about your experiences there :)

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #2 on: 27 Oct 2015, 11:35 am »
Michael,

Small world. I'm a 1992 graduate of TAS (Taipei American School) in Tien-Mu, Taipei.  :thumb:

Nice story...keep it coming, brings back memories...

Best,
Anand.

mcgsxr

Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #3 on: 27 Oct 2015, 11:53 am »
Love hearing both about Taipei (was there May 95-August 97) and audio.

I miss the tea eggs at the 7/11!

I was very impressed with the Usher amps and speakers I heard there.  There was a larger music store out on Roosevelt Road that had some big Genesis floorstanding speakers upstairs all those years ago.  I literally sat on the floor in front of them for 1/2 an hour one day, enjoying the immense soundstage.

I still have a cd from the Taipei Audiophile club.  Most of if I cannot read, but there are several stand out tracks I love to listen to on my current setup.

Have fun!

mresseguie

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Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #4 on: 27 Oct 2015, 11:54 am »
Now that is interesting. My son was born in TaiAn Hospital in '92. That was my fifth year in Taiwan.

I don't know if you've been back recently, but so much has changed since then. Hell, I've changed so much since then.

Agreed - small world.

mresseguie

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Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #5 on: 27 Oct 2015, 12:02 pm »
Love hearing both about Taipei (was there May 95-August 97) and audio.

I miss the tea eggs at the 7/11!

I was very impressed with the Usher amps and speakers I heard there.  There was a larger music store out on Roosevelt Road that had some big Genesis floorstanding speakers upstairs all those years ago.  I literally sat on the floor in front of them for 1/2 an hour one day, enjoying the immense soundstage.

I still have a cd from the Taipei Audiophile club.  Most of if I cannot read, but there are several stand out tracks I love to listen to on my current setup.

Have fun!

Hi, Mark. I can send you tea egg pouches if you really want. I haven't made it out to ZhungHwa Rd yet to check out those shops. Roosevelt Road is so long that it could take me days to find that shop. Do you recall which Section it was in?

I found the Audiophile Club's website, but I haven't contacted them yet. I wonder if they have got the old CD still for sale?

Man, I get to feeling pretty old when I think about all the good times in the nineties.

ACHiPo

Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #6 on: 27 Oct 2015, 12:42 pm »
Great story!

JLM

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Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #7 on: 27 Oct 2015, 01:15 pm »
I know the Fritz Carbon 7's loved the big ballsy solid state amp I heard at AKFest years ago.  Keep us posted.

mcgsxr

Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #8 on: 27 Oct 2015, 01:30 pm »
I forget exactly where the music store was, but by memory it would have been out towards where Roosevelt climbs over the mountains towards Hwy 9 to Ilan (Yilan?) - my FAVORITE ride in the world on a motorcycle.

We used to get up at 5am on Sunday and get out to that road.  Breakfast by the coast after ripping up that road was just fantastic.  Heading back to the city there was so much traffic that the ride was much more sedate, but those weekly hours exploring the sidewall of tires, 2 stroke bike on the boil, were fabulous.

Ahem, enjoy the island!

brother love

Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #9 on: 27 Oct 2015, 02:36 pm »
Great stuff Michael, & it sure does fit in with what a lot of AudioCircle truly is all about (& what draws many of us here). It is also nice hearing about audio passion in other parts of the world. Thanks for your insights that many of us would never know about, & keep us posted on where this particular audiophile journey takes you.  :thumb:

PS, Make no mistake, you ARE an audiophile. Insert budget, part-time, semi or another description in front of audiophile if that makes you feel less weird (I choose budget myself). You know, an obsession can have varying levels of intensity, emotionally, financially, & otherwise.  :lol:

mresseguie

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Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #10 on: 27 Oct 2015, 03:40 pm »
The listening room:



This photo was taken before the X12 speakers had been hooked up.

Early B.

Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #11 on: 27 Oct 2015, 04:22 pm »
PS, Make no mistake, you ARE an audiophile. Insert budget, part-time, semi or another description in front of audiophile if that makes you feel less weird (I choose budget myself). You know, an obsession can have varying levels of intensity, emotionally, financially, & otherwise.  :lol:

Yep. Anyone who would actually write up a story like this on an audio forum is a prime example of an "audiophile."

WGH

Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #12 on: 27 Oct 2015, 04:48 pm »
Great story, I wonder what was in that Super Shupao? It could become the magic elixir of audiophiles.

mcgsxr

Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #13 on: 27 Oct 2015, 04:51 pm »
I always fell victim to the Mr Brown Coffee - Blue Mountain.  I would crush so many of those cans!



Loved the convenience of iced coffee.  Worked well on those brutally hot humid days.

Super Supau was a good gatorade replacement too.


brother love

Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #14 on: 27 Oct 2015, 07:09 pm »
Yep. Anyone who would actually write up a story like this on an audio forum is a prime example of an "audiophile."
No kidding. And he has over 1000 posts on an audio forum. He's not fooling anyone.   :lol:

mresseguie

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Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #15 on: 29 Oct 2015, 10:36 am »
Who can ever forget Mr. Brown?

Okay, folks. I'm going to attend the Taichung International Hi-end Audio Show (TAIHAS???) in Taichung (duh) on Saturday. I'm guessing it's about the size of Axpona or smaller, but I won't know for sure until I walk into the hotel. I'm going to post a link to the sponsors/demonstrators to this show. If any of those manufacturers/demonstrators look appealing to you, post your interest here. I'll  make a special effort to check out those rooms. I've got just the one day, but I ought to be able to devote a good 8 hours to the show. Don't expect the kind of coverage those two guys give at RMAF (you know who I'm talking about) give. I'll shoot from the hip by telling you what I liked and what I didn't. I'm hoping to concentrate on brands we don't see so often in the States, but mainstream brands may suck me in.

Here's the link:
http://tc-hiend.kje-event.com.tw/company.php

If you happen to be at the show, I suspect there will be a thousand Asian guys and a handful (or even fewer!) 'other'. I'll be one of the 'other' mostly bald, slightly overweight guys wandering around. Step on up and say hi to me. I won't bite. :thumb: Hop on a plane. Be there or be square.

Michael


Kenneth Patchen

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Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #16 on: 29 Oct 2015, 04:05 pm »

The name of the company is Yoson Audio. It's been in business since 1973. Link:http://www.yosonaudio.com.tw

Their amps/pres/DACs are the Descartes models.

If you have questions about the website or amps, ask here and I'll post links or info.

I'm going to return to the shop in a week or so with my Fritz speakers. When I told the guy I had to experience their amps with my speakers, he told me to bring them in. I can't wait. This is going to be so so cool. Well, I have to wait because we're heading to the southern part of the island for a few days to visit friends and dodge the Dengue Fever mosquitoes.

Sorry you had to put up with my long-winded monologue. Enjoy!

Michael

Hi Michael,
Great post, please keep us posted as to the Fritz listening session.

I visited the site and  I did see the several models of the Descartes but since my Chinese is nonexistent I couldn't figure out the specs or pricing. Would you fill us in?

I'd hop on a plane in a minute to join you for the show but Mrs Kenneth has something called 'winterization' chores for me to attend to.

Take care dodging the Denque mosquitoes (I presume that's not a sports team).

Initially yours,
KP



mresseguie

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Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #17 on: 29 Oct 2015, 04:16 pm »
They have three base models of the integrated amp and three SE models. Their entry level integrated amp 150w/ch msrp is $68,000 NTD = New Taiwan Dollars (divide by 32 to get approximate USD cost). They will sell it for less than the MSRP, but I do not know how much less.

Integrated amps:
DA150      $68k NTD
DA150S    $88k
DA200      $108k
DA200S    $128k
DA250      $168k
DA250S    $198k

Separate amps:
DP150           $78k
DP150-S       $108k
DP200           $148k
DP200-S       $198k
DP250           $268k
DP250-S       $398k  This model has two power supplies (or does that mean dual mono?).

Oh, there's always a tremendous amount of two-legged scantily clad eye candy at shows like this. I suppose I could force myself to take a few photos if I get tired of audio equipment.  :icon_twisted:

aldcoll

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Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #18 on: 29 Oct 2015, 05:56 pm »
Using Chrome browser and Google translate I could get some of the information to come up.  I was also using a cheap Korean tablet so that might have helped :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

Johnny2Bad

Re: Amplifier epiphany!
« Reply #19 on: 17 Jan 2016, 07:35 am »
They have three base models of the integrated amp and three SE models. Their entry level integrated amp 150w/ch msrp is $68,000 NTD = New Taiwan Dollars (divide by 32 to get approximate USD cost). They will sell it for less than the MSRP, but I do not know how much less.

Integrated amps:
DA150      $68k NTD
DA150S    $88k
DA200      $108k
DA200S    $128k
DA250      $168k
DA250S    $198k

Separate amps:
DP150           $78k
DP150-S       $108k
DP200           $148k
DP200-S       $198k
DP250           $268k
DP250-S       $398k  This model has two power supplies (or does that mean dual mono?).

Oh, there's always a tremendous amount of two-legged scantily clad eye candy at shows like this. I suppose I could force myself to take a few photos if I get tired of audio equipment.  :icon_twisted:

Quick and Dirty conversion (one you can do in your head):

10,000 New Taiwan Dollars (NTD) = about $US 300.00 (actual value $US 298.43 a/o 17Jan2016)