Charney Audio Tractrix Horn Builder

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rodge827

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Charney Audio Tractrix Horn Builder
« on: 9 Oct 2015, 09:16 pm »
I hope to get to Charney soon for a listen...

http://charneyaudio.com/
« Last Edit: 24 Feb 2018, 08:39 pm by rodge827 »

JLM

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Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #1 on: 11 Oct 2015, 10:23 am »
Please report back to us.  The Concerto reminds of the Hedlund Horn (the one I heard had very little bass).

Bemopti123

Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #2 on: 11 Oct 2015, 01:28 pm »
The Concert is definitely an almost faithful take on the Hedlund horns.  The designer of the Hedlunds seem to have given up speaker making in other to pursue other things.  While I am not aware of the details, I am pretty sure that this new speaker makers have gotten permission to pursue these designs.

To be such a large horn I am surprised that the bass you heard was not adequate.  But then the quantity of bass in many horn designs seem lacking in comparison to other less demanding designs.

PS:  At least the prices seem reasonable and not on the price gauging territory that many people would charge for such intricate designs.  Maybe I am getting old and brainwashed with so many zeros that other makers charge for simple BR boxes with expensive crossovers and mediocre drivers. 


JLM

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Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #3 on: 14 Oct 2015, 10:20 am »
The Hedlund Horns were homemade, in a friend's average sized living room powered by 300B mono-blocks.  He had added stiffeners for the throat and demonstrated with and without his big sub.  But like many single driver fans he wasn't into full bass production (has since gone in for multi-driver O.B.).

We are all conditioned by what system we're listening through.  I'm still using Brines Acoustics M18-F200 but recently have added, at Duke LeJeune's recommendation, ambience tweeters (that follow the Late Ceiling Splash concept) that very nicely reinforce imaging and treble response (review forthcoming).

With prices up to $29,000 USD, I'll have to disagree with you on pricing, although they do start off at reasonable prices (for audiophiles). 

Bemopti123

Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #4 on: 15 Oct 2015, 03:29 am »
I also still have the FTA-2000 that Bob made for me back in 2004.  I cannot believe it has been almost 11 years.  Since then I have also commissioned another pair of speakers from him.  And if excess itself was excessive, I have also ordered another pair of TL speakers, this time around I have decided to send him a pair of EJ Jordan JX6HD drivers that will be helped with a pair of Audax carbon fiber 8" midwoofers.  I am looking for that Fullrange sound that also digs deep in the low end. 

JLM

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Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #5 on: 15 Oct 2015, 10:12 am »
Always thought a small driver like that Jordan with small mid/woofer in TL would be a promising approach: combining foundational (TL room friendly) bass, sufficient size to provide mid/bass body, with good treble dispersion.  Please post your impressions friend.

StevenZ

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Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #6 on: 15 Oct 2015, 11:32 am »
Very interesting.  Looking forward to your listening impressions.

rodge827

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Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #7 on: 17 Oct 2015, 12:57 pm »
Will be at Charney Audio today  :D  listening to the Maestro and Concerto  8)

Will post impressions accordingly.

Chris

Scottmoose

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Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #8 on: 22 Oct 2015, 09:26 am »
The Concerto and Maestro are definitely not based on the Hedlund horn. They are derived from / copies of the old commercial Carfrae [nominally] tractrix horns dating from the mid-late 1990s. The Maestro (originally known as The Little Big Horn) is still occasionally to be found, being produced by small-scale manufacturers. The former is less frequently seen though, presumably because of its size, and because it is harder to build, since it expands in 3 dimensions.

The Alerion was a compact commercial design by the late Terry Cain for Lowther America (although the one pictured appears to have a Fostex FE108ESigma on a metal baffle, they state the original DX55 in the text). I suspect the configuration was derived from one of the original BK series Fostex horns, albeit with the overall dimensions revised & refined for the intended driver.

rodge827

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Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #9 on: 22 Oct 2015, 10:38 am »
The Concerto and Maestro are definitely not based on the Hedlund horn. They are derived from / copies of the old commercial Carfrae [nominally] tractrix horns dating from the mid-late 1990s. The Maestro (originally known as The Little Big Horn) is still occasionally to be found, being produced by small-scale manufacturers. The former is less frequently seen though, presumably because of its size, and because it is harder to build, since it expands in 3 dimensions.

The Alerion was a compact commercial design by the late Terry Cain for Lowther America (although the one pictured appears to have a Fostex FE108ESigma on a metal baffle, they state the original DX55 in the text). I suspect the configuration was derived from one of the original BK series Fostex horns, albeit with the overall dimensions revised & refined for the intended driver.

Yep, the Concerto is similar to the Carfrae Big Horn (never sold in the US) and Alerion which is being built with permission from Lowther America. The Maestro is Charney's own design with a proprietary driver.

Charney wanted to build a horn without sub woofers to augment the low end. He has succeeded with the Concerto and Maestro. I can't comment on the Alerion since it wasn't on display for listening. 

I hope to post my thoughts on last Saturdays visit to 'Charney. I stayed later than expected (didn't want to leave)) and have had a full schedule since.

Chris

rodge827

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Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #10 on: 24 Oct 2015, 08:48 pm »
Ok, I finally have some time to write about my visit to Charney Audio.

The first thing Brian Charney did was to take me to his shop where the horns are built. The shop was impressive with a C&C wood cutting station, drill press, machinist lathe, a host of work benches, and cabinets full of jigs and tools. He was in the process of cutting cherry stands for a Maestro order and explained how the whole process works. I have never seen a C&C machine at work and it was very interesting to watch. Brian explained how with the use of a C&C machine that every part was exactly the same for every horn built. No variations from the design as can happen from hand cutting and building. The two things that struck me the most were how humble Brian is and how impeccably clean the shop was. Sorry to say I have been in restaurants that aren't as clean as his shop. 

So it was on up to the house and listening room. We entered the room form the side and to the right was a pair of Maestros and the 300b amp he builds. To the left was the Concerto and his own built custom reference gear. The room is 14'x19'x9' with a listening chair, sofa, music rack, and  curtains on the doors and window. The only aftermarket room treatments are Michael Green Corner Tunes in each of the 4 upper corners.

Up first were the Meastro's a 6.5" proprietary driver with a 108' horn.









I'm not the best photographer (as seen by the flash dots) and this pic fails to show how wonderful the Maestro looks. Fit and finish is impeccable like a fine piece of furniture. As horns go they are in the midsize category approx 44"h 20"w30"d the Amp is the 300b amp that Brian built and offers on the site. The amp is maple wrapped with the fit and finish as impressive as the Maestro, perfect in every way. The source was a Sony carousel CD player. Yeah that's right an el' cheapo bargain basement cd player and wait it gets better. A pair of unnamed interconnects and lamp cord as speaker wire! The amp and source were plugged into a cheap timer that was plugged directly into the wall. This can be seen in the pics to the right of the amp.

Enough description! How does the Maestro sound?

Real good! No wait, very real good! No wait again, very very real good!
(and you thought I would use some audio hyperbole such as awesome, giant slayer, and whatever terminology a pontificating reviewer would use)

Brian had a favorite demo disc from Bermiester(sp?) and played a pipe organ piece. It began with low notes that vibrated the floor, WOW a 6.5" driver hitting notes so low I got a foot massage! The movement continued and a sense of space came over me. The echos from the hall and the air moving through the pipes drew me closer into the music. The highs were so sweet and subtle they floated to my ears.
At this time I knew I was in front of something special. I always demo with drums and my favorite drum track is,  "Rusted Root Live Disc 2 track2 Ecstatic Drums", 8 1/2 minuets of  prodigious skin pounding ( hey this about music, be nice!).  The Maestro held up like a champ and didn't break up with the chest pounding drums altering my heart rhythm. Aside from the drums there are cymbals, whistles, an array of percussion instruments, and the crowd! All of which were presented in full scale life like manor with some parts played outside the right and left of the horns. Next up "Rodrigo y Gabriela Live In Japan"  This is a favorite disc of mine and I like to take on demos. The fast pace acoustic guitars can sound like mud on a lesser system. Not so with the Maestro! Gabriela was off to the left about 2' behind the horn and Rodrigo in like position behind the right horn. Imaging and soundstage were spot on and the overall sound was fantastic! I could feel the interplay between RyG and theirs with the crowd. At one point Gabriela talks to the crowd in Japanese, I don't know what is said, but it was the cleanest I have ever heard it!

I could go on and on about the Maestro but I think you get the drift. I liked it and it is worthy of a listen/purchase. With a source and cabling on the very low end and a high end amp this horn rocked and floated on the air. A 6 1/2" driver?  Damn! Still shaking my head over this...

BTW Charney Audio will be at the NY Audio Show  11/6-11/8

Concerto coming soon...       
   
     

StevenZ

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Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #11 on: 25 Oct 2015, 10:56 am »
Awesome write up. Thanks so much for sharing your impressions with us.

Rocket

Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #12 on: 25 Oct 2015, 12:47 pm »
Hi,

Thanks for the interesting post about as I have never heard of this company before.  The Alerion appears to be affordably priced.

Are you going to buy some of their speakers?

Cheers Rod

rodge827

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Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #13 on: 25 Oct 2015, 12:56 pm »
Hi,

Thanks for the interesting post about as I have never heard of this company before.  The Alerion appears to be affordably priced.

Are you going to buy some of their speakers?

Cheers Rod

I hope to buy the Maestro one day, I need to unload some gear to do it though. The Concerto is way out of my price range.

Chris

flat4

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Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #14 on: 28 Dec 2017, 02:07 am »
I hope to buy the Maestro one day, I need to unload some gear to do it though. The Concerto is way out of my price range.

Chris

Chris, How are you doing with your Maestro's? I had a chance to audition the Companion 2 weeks ago. All i can say is that Brian has a deposit from me. I kept an open mind but wasn't sure they would tick all the boxes for me especially the bass. I was way wrong! I truly have never heard anything like these! I was in total awe. It wasn't like listening to music. It was like the performers were in the room. You are bang on with your review so i will not repeat what you wrote especially since you conveyed it better than i could.

I urge anyone in the NJ, PA, NY, MA, CT area or beyond to get a listen to the Charney speakers. Brian is a no BS type of guy and like Chris mentioned there are no high dollar cables etc. in his system. Brian is a talented designer/builder and is very low pressure. Actually he is no pressure. I called and he answered all my questions. His response is just come listen for yourself and decide. He said forget everything you have read etc and let your own ears decide.

Wound up being a costly audition. LOL  Time to sell some stuff. Anyone want/need Crown XLS2502? LOL
« Last Edit: 29 Dec 2017, 12:40 am by flat4 »

rodge827

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Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #15 on: 28 Dec 2017, 06:11 pm »
Chris, How are you doing with your Maestro's?

Very well thank-you  :D

Finally someone else to convey how good Charney Audio Horns sound. They are something to be experienced and as Brian mentioned:
He's response is just come listen for yourself and decide. He said forget everything you have read etc and let your own ears decide.

So true! Far too many reviewer opinions out there, but an actual audition is the way to go. There are no tricks used in his room, and it is minimally treated. Listening to Tommy Emmanuel with the Maestro's as I write this...

Chris

flat4

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Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #16 on: 29 Dec 2017, 12:44 am »
Very well thank-you  :D

Finally someone else to convey how good Charney Audio Horns sound. They are something to be experienced and as Brian mentioned:
So true! Far too many reviewer opinions out there, but an actual audition is the way to go. There are no tricks used in his room, and it is minimally treated. Listening to Tommy Emmanuel with the Maestro's as I write this...

Chris

Chris, great to hear you are enjoying them. What do you have in your system? I still can not believe what i heard out of these.Like you said no tricks or super expensive cables, sound treatment, tricks, or power conditioners. Incredible sound! Can not wait to get mine. In the mean time i am building up a dedicated listening room in my new to me house along with 300 other things. LOL


planet10

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Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #17 on: 30 Dec 2017, 12:47 am »
The Concerto and Maestro are definitely not based on the Hedlund horn.

Nice looking speakers. They use the floor/wall boundary to multiply the size of the mouth which is needed for bass. They conform to the smooth taper design philosophy which may mean excess midrange bleed-thru the horn, but the rear mouth will mitigate this.

The Concerto looks an awful lot like the DIY Dalek by Bob Hayes (lat e2006) with a Ron Clarke style diffusor.



dave

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Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #18 on: 30 Dec 2017, 12:38 pm »
Not been here for a long while and was surprised to see charney selling alerion, this was designed by John ver halen of lowther America and built by Terry Cain. John sent me the plans for these and I still haven't got around to building them but will soon. I have already tried dx45's I have with the notch filter and another back loaded horn I had around and they were quite good, going down to 31hz allbeit 15db down, but then they were not designed for the drivers. I did commission a cabinet maker to build the boxes when I didn't have the time but he pulled out part way through. 

flat4

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Re: Charney Audio Big Horn Maker and DIY
« Reply #19 on: 31 Dec 2017, 02:08 pm »
Nice looking speakers. They use the floor/wall boundary to multiply the size of the mouth which is needed for bass. They conform to the smooth taper design philosophy which may mean excess midrange bleed-thru the horn, but the rear mouth will mitigate this.

The Concerto looks an awful lot like the DIY Dalek by Bob Hayes (lat e2006) with a Ron Clarke style diffusor.



dave

Dave, these are something to look at. Brians woodwork is outstanding. I was short on time during my audition of the Comapnions but he invited me back just to listen to the Concerto. I will have to have a bigger listening room in my next house for these. Heck this house only has 7 foot ceilings. LOL