Solid or tube phone pre amp? Which is best?

chgolatin2 · « **on:** 19 Sep 2015, 12:53 pm »

I was told that getting a tube phono preamp will produce unwanted noise due to the tubes, rather go with a solid state unit that don't suffer from noise. I don't know how much of this statement is correct since I am going back to vinyl. I have been considering the Jolida JD9 but someone that I know locally advised me not to go the tube phono route due to his 35 years of "audiophile" experience which let him know the difference between a solid state unit and a tube unit.

He also said that by having an integrated tube amp (Cary SLI 80) to let that unit do the work with the tubes instead. Regardless I will get the sound transmitted through the amp with the tubes and I will get the best sound by combining a solid state unit with a tube amp..... How much of this is true or a correct statement? Well, I don't know. I just want to do whats best with what I have which is a pair of Von Scheikert VR2 speakers, Cary Audio SLI 80, Cambridge Audio 840C cd player, Peachtree iDecco, and a Technics SL1200 vintage turntable with a Stanton 500 cartridge... My audio gear is a work in progress

S Clark · « **Reply #1 on:** 19 Sep 2015, 01:38 pm »

"Tubes are noisy" is a tired old meme. Like most designs, the devil is in the details, and some guys can do it well and some can't. I've used several phono stages along the way, including a highly modded Cambridge, Vista, Graham Slee, and a Dodd. I like the last two best, each doing things differently. In my system, the Dodd is just as quiet and the solid state units. Perhaps if you are using 100+dB efficiency speakers that might not be true, but that's my experience.
And perhaps more relevant, I have a friend that has a Jolida and a Graham Slee. The Slee is sitting on a shelf in the closet and Jolida is in his system.

Wayner · « **Reply #2 on:** 19 Sep 2015, 03:52 pm »

One common complaint about tube phono preamps is actually probably cause by the tubes themselves. And that complaint is tube ringing. So the equipment may not be at fault at all, but nonetheless, it is a hassle and requires a stock of tubes. I don't think tube dampers work for all types of microphonic noise, so that isn't always a cure-all problem either. IMO, its hard to beat a good solid state design that has a near perfect RIAA curve.

'ner

neobop · « **Reply #3 on:** 19 Sep 2015, 07:05 pm »

The JD9 is a solid state unit with a couple of 12ax7 on the output. Not much to worry about on that basis.

There are also numerous threads all over the place about modding/upgrading the unit. There's always an expensive cap and chip substitution. That might depend on the vintage of the unit.

neo

smk · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 Sep 2015, 08:10 pm »

Don't ask me! I have no experience with any component in your system.

Agree with S Clark, & others. Personal experience has taught me not all tubes are equal as far as noise goes.

smk · « **Reply #5 on:** 19 Sep 2015, 08:19 pm »

Whoops…make that "not equal."

BobM · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 Sep 2015, 08:31 pm »

Imo SS is quieter and better able to have the extra gain necessary for lomc cartridges. A tube phono stage is probably going to need a step up.

However, imo vinyl shines with tubes. There is just a natural bloom with tubes that SS can't achieve. SS may be cleaner on general but it lacks the magic tubes bring to the table.

Wayner · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 Sep 2015, 08:43 pm »

I don't know what "bloom" is, but if it takes the signal and alters it from flat or screws up the RIAA curve, then I suppose it can have a sound of its own.

I have one particular SS pre that gets out of the way and lets the recording do the "blooming", if there is "blooming" on the recording.

'ner

S Clark · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 Sep 2015, 09:30 pm »

Well, I've two Vistas, a Graham Slee gold, and a Dodd. For a reasonable price, I'd sell the Vistas and the Graham Slee. The Dodd with four 6dj8 tubes is not for sale.

What else is there to say. Some folks like tubes (or the idea of tubes), some don't like tubes (or the idea of tubes). For me this isn't a blood feud. The Vista pre is quiet and clean, the Graham Slee has better separation of notes in the mids and treble- very clean. But the Dodd almost matches the Graham Slee's separation of notes and has much more solid mid and low bass than either of the others.

Freo-1 · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Sep 2015, 09:41 pm »

The one issue one needs to look for is to make sure that there is a proper impedance match between the preamp and power amp. Some tube amps do not mate up well to solid state amps.

bacobits1 · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Sep 2015, 10:32 pm »

I have not heard the Jolida it is supposed to be good with lots of gain and adjustments is what is going for it. Easy modding too just changing the OPamps. The Vista is adjustable the vII is and sounds great too it's an excellent little box.
I very much liked the iFi Phono too again very adjustable and also got very good reviews.
I like what I'm using best out of a lot a Phonos I have had here the last 2 years. It is ss.
Adjustable resistance and gain is very important to me.

You should be getting enough tube goodness from the Cary.
All around you should have a nice sounding setup.

From the other thread you made a good choice with the Technics . The Regas at "retail" are way over priced for what they are.
Oh I had 3 of them so I can talk. Non of them I had no matter what I did ever ran at 33.3.

neobop · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Sep 2015, 11:10 pm »

Quote from: chgolatin2 on 19 Sep 2015, 12:53 pm

I was told that getting a tube phono preamp will produce unwanted noise due to the tubes, rather go with a solid state unit that don't suffer from noise. I don't know how much of this statement is correct since I am going back to vinyl. I have been considering the Jolida JD9 but someone that I know locally advised me not to go the tube phono route due to his 35 years of "audiophile" experience which let him know the difference between a solid state unit and a tube unit. He also said that by having an integrated tube amp (Cary SLI 80) to let that unit do the work with the tubes instead. Regardless I will get the sound transmitted through the amp with the tubes and I will get the best sound by combining a solid state unit with a tube amp..... How much of this is true or a correct statement? Well, I don't know. I just want to do whats best with what I have which is a pair of Von Scheikert VR2 speakers, Cary Audio SLI 80, Cambridge Audio 840C cd player, Peachtree iDecco, and a Technics SL1200 vintage turntable with a Stanton 500 cartridge... My audio gear is a work in progress

Your friend and Bacobits make a good point. Your integrated is all tube and considering your cartridge, maybe you should look at the big picture.

There is no right answer to your question. You'll find a difference of opinion no matter what you look at, and one person's rankings to another.

Quote from: S Clark on 19 Sep 2015, 09:30 pm

The Vista pre is quiet and clean, the Graham Slee has better separation of notes in the mids and treble- very clean.

From Vista Circle: "I had a Graham Slee Gold Era V and Boris's pre (Vista) smoked it completly."

Both of these guys are right - different people, different systems and different sensibilities. We don't know future budget and plans and some of the new inexpensive stages are said to be terrific. Unless you have another budget for a cart, I suspect that will be your limiting factor.
neo

vinyl_guy · « **Reply #12 on:** 20 Sep 2015, 02:19 am »

As others have said, there is no right answer. It is system dependent and a matter of personal taste. I have owned 2 SS (Bryston and Nakamichi) and 3 tube phono stages (Gill Audio Alana, Zesto Andros, ModWright PH-150). Two of the tube phonos were stand alone. The two SS and one tube were preamps with a phono. I prefer tubes in my phono stage and I have never had to have a step up for LOMCs. My current phono and pre are tubes and my amps are SS. I like the combination. Listen to both and decide what you like best.

Q3Di · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 Sep 2015, 12:02 pm »

I have owned SS (Pass Labs XOno, Ayre P5-X) and tube (BAT VK-P10 and Conrad-Johnson TEA2SE). The Pass and Ayre have plenty of gain. The Ayre sounds very good and cost only half of others. I like the sound of tube that people described as "bloom". Like others said, just listen to both and decide what you like.

chgolatin2 · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Sep 2015, 03:43 pm »

Quote from: bacobits1 on 19 Sep 2015, 10:32 pm

I have not heard the Jolida it is supposed to be good with lots of gain and adjustments is what is going for it. Easy modding too just changing the OPamps. The Vista is adjustable the vII is and sounds great too it's an excellent little box.
I very much liked the iFi Phono too again very adjustable and also got very good reviews.
I like what I'm using best out of a lot a Phonos I have had here the last 2 years. It is ss.
Adjustable resistance and gain is very important to me.

You should be getting enough tube goodness from the Cary.
All around you should have a nice sounding setup.

From the other thread you made a good choice with the Technics . The Regas at "retail" are way over priced for what they are.
Oh I had 3 of them so I can talk. Non of them I had no matter what I did ever ran at 33.3.

Thanks, I figured why spend the money on a Rega when I can just go with the tried and true Technic SL1200, the turntable is solid and I have a Stanton 500 Cartridge on it. I am considering sending the TT to KABUSA to see how can the table be improved upon. But that will be later of course.

At the end of the day its all about personal choice/preferences, some prefer solid state others tubes. Since I LOOOOOVE tubes I tend to lean more on the tube side of things

RPM123 · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 Sep 2015, 05:36 pm »

There are both excellent tube and SS phono stages and it's a matter of system synergy and your own listening preferences as to what you think may sound best. Depending on your speaker efficiency, you may find (some) tubes to be too noisy. On the other hand, you can tweak the sound of your system by using different tube brands and types. It's more work, however, IMHO the rewards can be worthwhile. I have an all tube system now and I think that it's the best sound I have ever achieved. Also, some phono cartridges may sound better with certain phono stages and vice versa. There are a number of on-line reviews that discuss this point, such as "Analog Planet" for example Good luck.

chgolatin2 · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 Sep 2015, 08:09 pm »

Quote from: RPM123 on 20 Sep 2015, 05:36 pm

There are both excellent tube and SS phono stages and it's a matter of system synergy and your own listening preferences as to what you think may sound best. Depending on your speaker efficiency, you may find (some) tubes to be too noisy. On the other hand, you can tweak the sound of your system by using different tube brands and types. It's more work, however, IMHO the rewards can be worthwhile. I have an all tube system now and I think that it's the best sound I have ever achieved. Also, some phono cartridges may sound better with certain phono stages and vice versa. There are a number of on-line reviews that discuss this point, such as "Analog Planet" for example Good luck.

Thank you RPM~

jsm71 · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 Sep 2015, 08:20 pm »

You have some pretty nice gear already. I'm a big Cary fan. I have their SLP98P preamp with phono stage. I have upgraded the tubes over time to very nice NOS tubes and it was a great investment. I'm all tubes including a tube amp and I have no tube noise at all coming from the combined 18 tubes (8 preamp, 10 amp).

You mentioned a possible upgrade path with KAB upgrades and that your journey was a work in progress. The Technics is a good platform to build further on. I see your needs for better sound being the phono preamp and possibly a step up in carts. My Cary phono front end is MM only. I use a Lrya Delos cart with Bob's SUT going into the MM input. I highly recommend that approach if you jumped someday to a MC cart. I started out with MM for decades. Getting a good tube phono that you could live with over time, like your Cary amp, would be my recommendation since "you loooove tubes." That's me as well.

Take a look at the Decware ZP3 phono preamp. I have heard this unit many times and it is very high quality, I just don't need a separate unit. Disclosure: I have a Decware ZMA amp and think highly of Steve Deckert's products, value pricing, and lifetime warranties.

dminches · « **Reply #18 on:** 28 Sep 2015, 08:53 pm »

Quote from: vinyl_lady on 20 Sep 2015, 02:19 am

My current phono and pre are tubes and my amps are SS.

A formula for eternal enjoyment!

RDavidson · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 Sep 2015, 09:11 pm »

I agree with most others here. There are good tube and SS preamps. I would probably lean to a SS unit as your integrated is tubed. Sometimes you can get too much of a "good thing" (going all tubes or all SS). The Graham Slee is universally well regarded. I'll admit I don't have a lot of vinyl experience, but a friend has a Graham Slee in his vinyl setup and it sounded (last time I heard it) very good. Any way you choose, look at it as gained experience. Understanding quality or lack there of, is relative to your personal experience. Pick one you think you'll like, and go for it.