[Ultralight]

For those of you who have a pair of 3i (RS5 driver) and:
a. Match with a subwoofer so that you don't need back wall bass reinforcement
b. Have the freedom to place your 3i anywhere in your room for best impact such as to provide a sense of depth, width, height etc.

How far are your 3is out from the rear wall as measured from either the rear of the speaker or the front?

Thanks!
UL

ps: And if your amp has 4, 8 and 16 ohm taps, which do you use?

[FireGuy]

I don't have the 3i but the Super 5 monitor (which has the RS5 driver).    They are 3 feet from the wall to back of the speaker... supported by two subs.  Toed in slightly that gives me (in this space) killer imaging and depth.  It took me a few months to get the config optimized.  Well worth the time and effort.

[Flinx99]

I am running Super 3is with a sub.  I've got them on a desk which I've pulled back from the wall far enough so the front of the speakers are about 32 inches from the wall.  I noticed that the soundstage definitely opens up more and provides width and depth.  My mother in law asked me, "what is doing that to the music?"  I don't follow the equilateral triangle listening suggestion, though.  My ears are about 42 inches from the center of each driver and the drivers themselves are bout 69 inches apart.  I find that this gives me a much larger soundstage with very accurate instrument positioning and separation.

[Canada Rob]

Flinx99,

I went to your "systems" picture and your rig looks really nice.  If I had the real estate, I would like to try setting up one of my systems like you've done.  On the desktop, the last system I had did it all, and the speakers were almost touching the back wall.  Image width, depth, clarity etc. were excellent and no sub was needed.  The front end in that system was extremely good.  The Temple amps I brought in didn't hang around long.  The picture makes the system look more cramped than it really was.



Ultralight,

Image width, depth, and focus can also be greatly affected by upline gear (amp, source, cabling, etc.).  That said, moving the speakers out into the room will help image depth, and if you have a nice fast sub it seems like a no brainer to do so.  The picture below looks about as "non audiophile" as you can get, but even without the sub running, the Super 3i's filled the 13' x 25' room no problem with a huge soundstage.  My only criticism was the soundstage depth, though good, it could have been a little deeper, but traffic patterns kept the speakers closer to the wall for safety.  For amplifiers: in my experience, nothing images like a good SET - they're downright spooky, and I feel if a person has one they can probably get away with having their speakers closer to the wall and still have that wonderful deep soundstage - having your cake and eating it too.

[Flinx99]

Thanks Rob.  It's interesting----I have found that listening like this demonstrates to me that there is a scale involved.  Close up in the nearfield, my system rivals a demo setup in a hifi store near me.  The setup has mid-range Audio Wilson speakers matched with a McIntosh amp, which to my ears sounds amazing.  I used Tidal to test, so it was as like-for-like as I could get for the same music.  The speakers alone cost more than 5 times my entire system.  My system comes very close to matching it.  There are some tunes that the hifi store just took to another level, but for the most part, mine did very well in comparison.  The difference is that I have to be listening nearfield on mine, while I can listen to the other system from across the room.  This is what I mean by scale.

I would really like to hear what the Super 7s or Super Alnicos sound like.  They must be jawdropping.  I gushed enough about my Super 3is to a coworker that he went online last week and ordered a pair of Super 7 Monitor MK2s without hearing them.  The Super Alnicos were outside of his budget.  He is planning on matching the MK2s with a hand-me-down Krell, which I hope won't kill them. 

Jim

Flinx99,

I went to your "systems" picture and your rig looks really nice.  If I had the real estate, I would like to try setting up one of my systems like you've done.  On the desktop, the last system I had did it all, and the speakers were almost touching the back wall.  Image width, depth, clarity etc. were excellent and no sub was needed.  The front end in that system was extremely good.  The Temple amps I brought in didn't hang around long.  The picture makes the system look more cramped than it really was.



Ultralight,

Image width, depth, and focus can also be greatly affected by upline gear (amp, source, cabling, etc.).  That said, moving the speakers out into the room will help image depth, and if you have a nice fast sub it seems like a no brainer to do so.  The picture below looks about as "non audiophile" as you can get, but even without the sub running, the Super 3i's filled the 13' x 25' room no problem with a huge soundstage.  My only criticism was the soundstage depth, though good, it could have been a little deeper, but traffic patterns kept the speakers closer to the wall for safety.  For amplifiers: in my experience, nothing images like a good SET - they're downright spooky, and I feel if a person has one they can probably get away with having their speakers closer to the wall and still have that wonderful deep soundstage - having your cake and eating it too.

[Canada Rob]

Thanks Rob.  It's interesting----I have found that listening like this demonstrates to me that there is a scale involved. 

Definitely, and even though my desktop setup sounded great, yours would no doubt have a larger scale than mine due to your greater amount of real estate.  One step closer with mine would have been headphones.

[Flinx99]

Rob---I would take your old set-up over headphones any day.  I couldn't even imagine how much it would cost to obtain the same soundstage with headphones.  I have decent headphones and they don't approach my nearfield listening.  I like to refer to my setup as "airphones". 

I have been messing around with toe in again based upon some observations posted in another thread in this circle and have landed on very little toe in.  If you set yourself up with a desktop solution in the future, start with no toe in and go from there.  You might be able to compensate for a lack of real estate.  An unorthodox variation would be to actually pull your desk away from the wall to give your speakers some room.  I put my monitor on a separate piece of wood, counterweight it, and hang it over the back of my desk to help reduce reflections in between my 3is.  I also bought a pair of Isoacoustic stands to raise the drivers to ear height.

Definitely, and even though my desktop setup sounded great, yours would no doubt have a larger scale than mine due to your greater amount of real estate.  One step closer with mine would have been headphones.

[Canada Rob]

Hi Flinx99,

I hope you didn't misunderstand me.  That system was far better than any headphone outfit I've heard and I've heard some nice ones.  The picture doesn't reveal the space behind the desk or the fact that the speakers are hanging over the back of it.  That said, I'd love to do what you suggest, but I have room constraints that currently preclude that option.  The Isoacoustic stands are a great idea and I've had my eye on them for some time.  I should spring for a set. 

The desk was designed and built for computer audio and has damped hidden outriggers that reach out and touch the back and side walls making the desk solid as a rock horizontally.  It also has an almost hidden damped center support.  The legs are internally damped.  This desk was designed with the same principals as my main audio rack and both have served me very well for over six years.  I would, like you suggest, like to get my desk further out, as longer outriggers are no problem.   

[Flinx99]

I am not even going to mention to my wife that desks exist for computer audio.  She will kill me.

/Hi Flinx99,

I hope you didn't misunderstand me.  That system was far better than any headphone outfit I've heard and I've heard some nice ones.  The picture doesn't reveal the space behind the desk or the fact that the speakers are hanging over the back of it.  That said, I'd love to do what you suggest, but I have room constraints that currently preclude that option.  The Isoacoustic stands are a great idea and I've had my eye on them for some time.  I should spring for a set. 

The desk was designed and built for computer audio and has damped hidden outriggers that reach out and touch the back and side walls making the desk solid as a rock horizontally.  It also has an almost hidden damped center support.  The legs are internally damped.  This desk was designed with the same principals as my main audio rack and both have served me very well for over six years.  I would, like you suggest, like to get my desk further out, as longer outriggers are no problem.