[JDUBS]

Hey Guys

Would love to get folks' thoughts on a good MC cartridge for my just-acquired Technics turntable.

Will be using the stock tonearm.  How about the Denon DL-103 / 103R? 

-Jim

[neobop]

Hi Jim,
Is that the price range?  Can you go higher or do you want to keep it relatively inexpensive?
What kind of phono stage and system do you have, and what kind of sound attributes are you looking for?

The 103(R) is usually associated with heavier arms, but you could probably get it to work with some coaxing.  They're musical carts, but not the most detailed.  Maybe a 301 would be a better choice.  Already have a high output cart?
neo

[steve f]

I doubt a stock Technics tone arm is a good choice for any moving coil cartridge, unless you are willing to play with mass. The guy to ask is KAB, the Technics expert.

(I would also recommend not buying a high output MC cartridge for almost all applications.They aren't anywhere near as good as the low output types. They aren't as good as better MM cartridges. This is a whole different topic though.)

[S Clark]

(I would also recommend not buying a high output MC cartridge for almost all applications.They aren't anywhere near as good as the low output types. They aren't as good as better MM cartridges. This is a whole different topic though.)

Have you got a list of cartridges in mind that you have extended personal experience with when you make such a broad statement?

[steve f]

I'm not going to make up a list. My cartridge experience goes bac over forty years. I find that the higher moving mass of high output MC cartridges outweighs the benefits that low output MC cartridges provide. I see no reason to buy one, and yes I've owned a couple. I believe the high output devices were an attempt to escape the use of a step up device. BTW I still prefer transformers to MC preamps. Fair enough?

[S Clark]

Fair enough, just don't necessarily agree that such a broad statement is accurate.  Hey, if we all agreed on every piece of equipment, bit of music, or under which phase of the moon things sound best... there would be no need for AC.

[steve f]

How can I even remember every vinyl system I've used over the years? There have been too many. On this topic I'm more or less committed to generalities. Of course I'm the guy who threw a high output MC into the trash, a Dynavector I believe, because it wasn't as good as an old Fidelity Research I had been using. ( I also prefer well done digital to vinyl, which makes me a heretic in some circles) I don't fault anyone's preferences. I do find the MCs of today mostly obscenely priced.

It makes audio interesting to discuss these things. A new topic?

Steve

[neobop]

I doubt a stock Technics tone arm is a good choice for any moving coil cartridge, unless you are willing to play with mass. The guy to ask is KAB, the Technics expert.

(I would also recommend not buying a high output MC cartridge for almost all applications.They aren't anywhere near as good as the low output types. They aren't as good as better MM cartridges. This is a whole different topic though.)

You doubt due to mass?  Your consideration is out of date.  There are MCs today with appropriate compliance and used successfully on the deck.  The MK5 has improved wiring, and while there is almost always something better, thousands of 1200 users use MCs.  The arm eff mass is 12g.  The DL301 I mentioned tracks 1.2 - 1.6g.   

If more arm mass is desired a heavier headshell will increase it.   Perhaps a LOMC isn't the best option for Jim, I don't know, but that's what he asked.
neo

[Art_Chicago]

I am quite happy with a Denon 110 (HOMC) on a 1200Mk2. I got it a few years as it was recommended by AC'ers. However the price doubled since then, so it is almost in the 103r/ 301 price range. So I am interested to see how this thread develops.

[steve f]

Neobop, please re-read my post. We are not disagreeing.

steve

[JDUBS]

Hey Guys

Sorry, should have been more specific on my question.  I'm not at all wedded to the 103 / 103R but it seems like its been used by folks with the Technics SL1200 with some frequency...plus, there's just something about that cartridge that's always kind of intrigued me.

I literally just bought the table though, sans cartridge and am open to really anything, including MM carts.

I listen to mostly indie rock / pop / electropop. 

Budget up to $250ish.

Thanks again,
Jim

[steve f]

Jim,

The Technics is an excellent table.

https://www.kabusa.com/

This site has all good things Technics.

steve

[JDUBS]

Jim,

The Technics is an excellent table.

https://www.kabusa.com/

This site has all good things Technics.

steve

Thanks Steve.  I've been all over that site.  Was a big part of my learning leading up to buying the table!

Its my first table, too.

-Jim

[steve f]

Jim,

You've done very well. Few tables are better, at any price. Congrats.

steve

[neobop]

Considering your budget and this is your first table, I recommend a cart with replaceable stylus (MM/MI).   I also recommend a stylus force gauge.  If you're planning to use overhang to set alignment I also suggest going to Vinyl Engine site and downloading some free protractors.  When you print them you have to check the size for accuracy. 

What phono stage?  Do you know input capacitance?

What sound are you seeking, detailed, bright/forward, laid back/mellow, big bass, lean bass, neutral as possible ??   You should take your system sound into consideration. 
neo

[JDUBS]

Considering your budget and this is your first table, I recommend a cart with replaceable stylus (MM/MI).   I also recommend a stylus force gauge.  If you're planning to use overhang to set alignment I also suggest going to Vinyl Engine site and downloading some free protractors.  When you print them you have to check the size for accuracy. 

What phono stage?  Do you know input capacitance?

What sound are you seeking, detailed, bright/forward, laid back/mellow, big bass, lean bass, neutral as possible ??   You should take your system sound into consideration. 
neo

neo, I'm going unconventional with a phono stage....I'm not using one!  Well, I'm *kinda* not using one.  Going to use the mic inputs on my ADC / DAC and then inverse RIAA via convolution or Pure Vinyl (dual booting win 7 and Yosemite).

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?18268-Streaming-Vinyl

Sooo, I'd rather not bring it into the discussion (another thread, perhaps).

For sounds I'm going for, I want as neutral as possible.  I'll be able to digitally shape whatever sound I'm going for with my computer software.

-Jim

[steve f]

I've always wanted to try that, inverse via computer. I haven't because I have a phenomenal phono preamp. (Transcendent Sound, the only piece of tube gear in main system) please let me know how it works out.

steve

[neobop]

EEK!!
I wonder what the capacitance is on the mike inputs.  Even with digital EQ high capacitance will affect the character of the sound.  Most carts want to see around 200pF or less.  SL1200 wire/cables are 100pF.  That's added to the input capacitance for a grand total of ?

I would think you'd want it as detailed as possible.  Can you stretch to $324 ?
http://www.lpgear.com/product/ATC0150MLX.html

This one has nearly identical specs and can take the 150MLX stylus:
http://www.lpgear.com/product/AT100E.html

http://www.lpgear.com/product/ATN150MLX.html

Second choice in a new cart is Ortofon 2M Black - around $700. 

That 150MLX stylus will also fit the 440 and 120.  Any one of them will sound great with that stylus.  They all have a long break-in - just have to suffer through it.
neo