[I.Greyhound Fan]

Dave, check your personal messages

Larry

[brooklyn]

I remember a few years back when I returned to to Maggie sound with the MMG’s, I was in a similar situation that you are right now. The MMG’s sounded bright to say the least. I tried the supplied resistors but I didn’t like the way they sounded with them.. I turned to the Audio Circle forum members and got some helpful advice.

First, those speakers need time to break in, I found the sound does change after a few months.. While the speakers were breaking in, I tried many positions in my room until I nailed it..

The end result was I got 80% of the way there but wanted to refine the sound some more. I decide with the help of A/C member once again that I wanted separate electronics like I had back in the day with my MGllb’s. I went with a tube preamp and solid state amps.. I was blown away..

I would say if you like the Maggie sound, give it a little time and effort and you will be rewarded like I was… besides… that’s what this hobby is all about.. If a simpleton like me can do it, anyone can.

Regards,
Jerry

[kylevuong19]

I remember a few years back when I returned to to Maggie sound with the MMG’s, I was in a similar situation
that you are right now. The MMG’s sounded bright to say the least. I tried the supplied resistors but I didn’t like
the way they sounded with them.. I turned to the Audio Circle forum members and got some helpful advice.

First, those speakers need time to break in, I found the sound does change after a few months.. While the speakers
were breaking in, I tried many positions in my room until I nailed it..

The end result was I got 80% of the way there but wanted to refine the sound some more. I decide with the help of
A/C member once again that I wanted separate electronics like I had back in the day with my MGllb’s. I went with a
tube preamp and solid state amps.. I was blown away..

I would say if you like the Maggie sound, give it a little time and effort and you will be rewarded like I was… besides…
that’s what this hobby is all about.. If a simpleton like me can do it, anyone can.

Regards,
Jerry

Hi Jerry,
May I ask which tube preamp and solid state power amp are you using to drive the MMG ?

[brooklyn]

Hi and welcome to the forum..

I’m using a Prima Luna Prologue 3 tube preamp and a pair of Bel Canto Ref500M mono amps..
The amps deliver plenty of power for the Maggie’s and the tube preamp gives them a little needed
warmth. I have always liked this type of combo with the planar speakers I’ve used over the years.

[Jazznball]

The first thing I would recommend is to read Jim Smith's book Get Better Sound before you start the never ending gear chasing and swapping cycle.  Exhaust all options with your current gear before you abandon it.  You probaly put a lot of time into your choices.  Maybe you just need to experiment with what you already have.  You must learn to play your room.
As to breaking in your new gear, you are already set up to break in everything fast since you already stream music with Tidal.  Just set the volume low and let the music play endlessly while you are not home or sleeping.  You will hear improvement in days rather than months.  I used this method to break in my AntiCable speaker cables and I logged 100 hours in about 5 days and the results were phenomenal.  I am also using a tube pre and solid state amp.  I have 1.7's with a PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium preamp and an Odyssey Stratos amp.  I don't have a very big room, but the rear doesn't have a wall so my sound exits without the glare you have.  I have my speakers 5 feet out and the maggies are awesome.

[brooklyn]

I've have the Jim Smith, Get Better Sound Book for a few years now.. I was amazed
how a few simple system setup idea's made a noticeable difference in the sound.
Anyway, I do hope the OP figures out a way to get the sound he's looking for.

[Quiet Earth]

I think there have been some good suggestions for making incremental improvements but none of them are going to turn a Sonos or an Oppo into a good source component. The fact that only "well recorded" recordings sound acceptable while most others are kind of irritating is a very good indication that your source component is the root of the problem. A good source component should make 99% of your music enjoyable to listen to even though you can easily distinguish the outstanding recordings from the merely average.

The importance of the source component seems to be a concept that is lost at Audio Circle and the Internet in general.

I would try a turntable or a very good CD player. You can get rid of  your Maggie's as a short term fix, but you are going to have to address your source components down the road anyway.

(Just my opinion of course.)

[SteveFord]

Stick a cheap tube buffer into the mix with that Oppo or Sonus or whatever - it'll work magic on the sound.
I was given a Yaqiun and with some vintage Sylvania tubes it transformed the wife's system; CDs went from dead and crappy, flat, lifeless and even blah to if only it had 3.7 ribbons we'd really have something here...

[raindance]

You'll need to have them at least 3' from the front wall. Toeing them in just slightly will reduce brightness. Use the resistors until you have at least 100 hours use on the speakers.

The biggest issue with Maggies is placement. If they are in the wrong spot the mid bass will be lacking making them sound bright.

Also a lot of rock recordings absolutely stink - they have rising treble due to a remastering engineer with cloth ears. You need to resign yourself to this or get a preamp with "gasp" tone controls.

[Davey]

I think there have been some good suggestions for making incremental improvements but none of them are going to turn a Sonos or an Oppo into a good source component. The fact that only "well recorded" recordings sound acceptable while most others are kind of irritating is a very good indication that your source component is the root of the problem. A good source component should make 99% of your music enjoyable to listen to even though you can easily distinguish the outstanding recordings from the merely average.

The importance of the source component seems to be a concept that is lost at Audio Circle and the Internet in general.

A good source component essentially "normalizes" the quality of average/bad recordings but leaves well-recorded material intact??  How exactly does it implement this?  Added distortion to mask the inherent quality of the (bad) recordings?  Some other magical process?

Speakers are (by far) the most important piece of equipment in your audio system.  They will define the characteristic sound of your setup and the relative importance of the rest of your audio equipment reduces (generally) as you move upstream in the reproduction chain.

I hope you're not suggesting otherwise.

Dave.

[Quiet Earth]

Davey, as usual, we will agree to disagree.

[mndave007]

I think there have been some good suggestions for making incremental improvements but none of them are going to turn a Sonos or an Oppo into a good source component. The fact that only "well recorded" recordings sound acceptable while most others are kind of irritating is a very good indication that your source component is the root of the problem. A good source component should make 99% of your music enjoyable to listen to even though you can easily distinguish the outstanding recordings from the merely average.

Oppo isn't a terrible source component.  Well-reviewed in Stereophile and a very solid build quality.  I have compared it to a few other moderate players (Rega and NAD) and really like it.  Also as a pure transport, you can sure do worse.  Yes - you can spend a lot more on a CD player (I used to love the Arcam FMJ line) or go transport/DAC. Sadly there are a number of recordings - especially early CDs that are terrible sounding no matter what you play them on.  Sure, you can throw fancy DACs that add their own coloring but I don't see the point.

My use of Sonos is as a pure digital pass through.  Tidal via Sonos sounds pretty good.  The DAC plays a huge roll obviously, but I will admit that lossless audio for $20 a month with any album I want to play is really enjoyable.  So many recordings I haven't heard for years.  Sadly Tidal gets their masters somewhere and not all are as good as the CD version or the vinyl from the old days.

Which brings me back to the Maggies.  We all have different ears and different things we like to hear.  Some people prefer warmer sound, others more detailed, others are into imaging over anything.  The Maggies done right are fantastic speakers - I never said anything different.

For me, I can take the Oppo in front of a decent amp and B&W speakers and enjoy the music over the Maggies with less fuss.  If I were still in my days of tweaking and playing I would have continued with the Maggies - just not my bit anymore.

The other thing that has really changed are the audio dealers.  In my more audiophile days, I worked with a dealer in Wisconsin that allowed home auditions of everything at no charge.  It allowed me to find that perfect solution for my room.  My option for high-end gear now is a store that doesn't offer home auditions and the store has a radically different structure than my home.  It's a dice roll hoping that I will get the sound I want at home.

Ironically the new Magnolia Design Centers (ala Best Buy) will allow home auditions with a decent return policy.  At the margins of high-end equipment, it makes sense and my local store is very busy on weekends.

Sorry for rambling.  Just like to be clear.  Maggies are great speakers and the group on this forum is awesome.  Just turned out not to be the right fit for me - but that is what an audio hobby is all about.

[SteveFord]

In that case, enjoy your B&Ws or whatever you wind up with.
The whole purpose of the hobby is to find something that you come home at the end of the day and WANT to listen to it.
As an aside, I should mention that my Oppo is an ancient cheapie and I'm sure they've come a long ways over the years.

[ajzepp]

Well, there is the possibility that Dave just doesn't like the sound of these speakers and no amount of musical chairing with other equipment will alleviate the issue. 
If you have the wrong set of tires on your car....changing the oil or gasoline octane or moving the seat forward is not going to fix the issue. 

The obvious solution to the problem.....which no one has mentioned yet....is to alter the crossover.  The change to a series crossover on the newer models tends to force a midrange bump into the speakers because of the interaction that didn't exist with the previous (parallel) crossovers.  Unfortunately, the tight-lipped folks at Magnepan have chosen to keep all the new crossovers a big secret so we can't easily simulate them and make relative adjustments for cases like this.

Dave.

This. Not going to get into all the debates about wires, DACs, etc making differences in the sound, but obviously speakers comprise the vast majority of they differences we hear and how well they match or do not match our preferences. I've heard Maggies on everything from inexpensive Outlaw monoblocks all the way up to massive high end amps that cost as much as new cars. If you dont like the Maggies themselves - or if you like them in every way except one key area, such as the case may be with MnDave - throwing more money into more expensive gear isn't likely to make any difference.

Personally I think that question should be answered before anything else. Just my $.02

[ajzepp]

Stick a cheap tube buffer into the mix with that Oppo or Sonus or whatever - it'll work magic on the sound.
I was given a Yaqiun and with some vintage Sylvania tubes it transformed the wife's system; CDs went from dead and crappy, flat, lifeless and even blah to if only it had 3.7 ribbons we'd really have something here...

Those can be had very inexpensively, too...good idea, Steve. I have a Yaquin buffer, myself.

[ajzepp]

My use of Sonos is as a pure digital pass through. 

Same here...I have had fantastic results with Sonus pulling music from my NAS (mostly Apple Lossless tracks) both with my headphone rig and the Peachtree. People are blown away when I pull out my iPad, give it to them and ask them to choose any music then want, and it just fires right up and sounds amazing. The Sonos app works flawlessly...

[SteveFord]

mndave007,
I just recalled you have one tube in the signal chain.
What tube is it?  That could be your problem right there and it would take only a second to fix it.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

mndave007,
I just recalled you have one tube in the signal chain.
What tube is it?  That could be your problem right there and it would take only a second to fix it.

Steve, I believe all PT gear use the Russian 6N1P tube.  There really aren't any tubes that you can roll.  I had gear that used this tube.  The NOS and New tubes of the 6N1P variety sound the same.  They are all made in the Russian Voskhod plant.  They use it because it is durable.  It really is not a great sounding tube and was a poor choice by PT.   They should have used a 6DJ8 or 6922 where there are more options and more musical and warmer sounding tubes.

[SwamisCat]

Mndave,

As a quarter century owner of various Maggies I will reluctantly jump in to the discussion.

I agree with the comments downplaying the relative role of sources and equipment beyond the level you already have. My experience is that several hundred thousand dollars of equipment won't make a significant change to the basic sonic signature (brightness) you are hearing. The exception is if you insert tubes or phono cartridges specifically designed to add a rolled off sonic signature, and some clearly are designed as such, for those preferring this path. Component matching may be an issue though.

I would be even more emphatic in disagreeing with recommendations involving cables. Any well designed short cable will reveal what your speakers are designed to sound like and I would be willing to bet that most of us are unable to distinguish properly designed cables (which you already have) and power cords in a true blind test. Any differences that are there are small relative to other factors.  It is your money, but there is a lot of snake oil being sold in audio by people either prone to or preying on human suggestibility. Sorry if I have offended anyone. One guy's opinion, and others clearly disagree.

What will make HUGE differences is positioning and room treatment. These will make orders of magnitude (tens or hundreds) more differences than cables or source upgrades over what you are running. A quarter inch toe in or couple inch movement to the side, forward or back will dwarf any improvement you get from upgrades to already excellent (and properly matched) electronics, let alone cables. 

In some rooms of my house, my Maggies simply do not sound good. The room is too small, or large or whatever. In others they can sound great, but the sound I get is extremely dependent upon placement and treatment. Closer to the front or side wall makes them brighter, as does toe in directly at my ears.  Moving them out past five or six feet plus from the FW, extreme toe in, and the resistors make huge reductions in the brightness, as does the addition of DWM's (I have two). 

Next is room treatment. You may need more absorption on the first reflection points and more diffusion on the FW.

Finally, if placement and treatment don't work, I need to say that you may just not like the sound of your speakers in your room. You may be happier with a larger model, or with DWMs, or another brand. Again, I am only happy with my three series (I have both IIIa's and 3.7i's) in some rooms, in some placements (and never when closer than about four feet to an untreated FW).

These are my thoughts. 

[sunnydaze]

Steve, I believe all PT gear use the Russian 6N1P tube.  There really aren't any tubes that you can roll.  I had gear that used this tube.  The NOS and New tubes of the 6N1P variety sound the same.  They are all made in the Russian Voskhod plant.  They use it because it is durable.  It really is not a great sounding tube and was a poor choice by PT.   They should have used a 6DJ8 or 6922 where there are more options and more musical and warmer sounding tubes.

As with most things audio.......depends how it's implemented.

My ancient (by digital standards) Metronome CD2V Signature uses a pair of 6N1P on the outputs.  I've been listening to this thing for almost 15 years.  Still sounds great.  Even better (in terms of naturalness, ease,  and musicality) than many more modern (and supposedly "better"    ) contenders I've tried,  both players and DACs alike.