[DocNice]

Alas, my 22 year old Advents are seeing better days, and I've  been granted a budget of $2k by the wife when my bonus comes in. I saw that Salk SongTowers have done well in reviews and speaker comparisons, but I was hesitant to go there without hearing them first. But I've warmed up to the idea after finding nothing "perfect" in my price range. I might be able to push that that a bit, but it also might mean waiting or hoping for a promotion:-) 

But in listening to speakers at the store, I find something obviously lacking in this price range. Most speakers at $2k give an honest sound. They're not trying to make a big boomy bass or do the Bose high and low but no mids act. But in being honest they also reveal their flaws. The B&W CM series lacks clarity. The Martin Logan Motion 40s have amazing clarity but lack a little on the low frequency. Same with the Dali Ikon 6. Probably no mistake both of those have a ribbon tweeter, but I also worry that I'll tire of their bright sound even though I love it in the showroom. Others have the high and low but lack clarity in the mids.

I've notice if I go a bit higher in price, I can get what I'm looking for. I liked the Revel F208 and KEF R700 at around $3,500. And the B&W CM10 at the same price range seemed to overcome the clarity issues in the series. Maybe I just need to spend that money. But I'd love to find it in my budget. I looked for a while at used speakers and found some that sounded beautifully detailed with a richness that I didn't get from the $3,500 new ones. But I can't find them in a color my wife likes.

The obvious choice here is the SongTowers. It's right at my price range, it gets good reviews. I'm not sure if it will have the same issue at the low end. I'm not talking about bumpy bass that I can feel. I'm talking about hearing the detail in the bass voice of a men's choir.

The other thing that might make me pay more is that I want to make these speakers something I can build around. Eventually I'll add surround speakers, a better amp and a sub. I'd rather not curse myself in 3 years saying why didn't I buy those other speakers because they really would have made the difference.

SuperCharged SongTower: I like the idea of the lower frequency and ribbon tweeter but it needs to be natural. I listened to the Definitive speakers with the powered woofer in the cabinet and they were too boomy.  Also the cost is pretty high for my budget, so they need to noticeably outperform the Songbirds.

Veracity HT2 and HT2-TL: It seems these are intended to have less low frequency and go with a sub. I might go for that if I listened to them and really thought "I have to have this. It's just that much better that I can't go back." But particularly the HT2-TL would be hard to justify at that price, and even the HT2 would be more than the other speakers that I mentioned were out of my price range, so it has to be that much better, particularly since it will probably need a subwoofer in the future.

A bit about my situation and likes.
I value clarity in my speakers and sometimes I think I'm a bit of a sucker for brightness in the showroom. But I prefer tight, accurate sound rather than lots of personality.

My room is 25 long by 17 wide with openings to the hallway and kitchen. Seating is 10-12 feet from the speakers. Hardwood floors with carpets. Most of the time the speakers will be about a foot or even less away from the wall, depending on speaker depth. When I want them to shine I'll pull them away, but the wife won't let them stay out all the time.

Primary use is home theater, followed by playing pop and dance music at high volume while working on weekends. However, while that is the primary use, the most important use is attentive music listening to jazz, choral, and light pop. This is where I want the speaker to shine and both low and high volume are important to me. For home theater and loud music I just want them not to suck.

My speaker test list, which gives some idea of the kind of music I want to listen to on nice speakers:
The Wailin Jennys: Across the Sea
The King's Singers: M.L.K.
Joni Mitchell: Both Sides Now
Aaron Copeland: Fanfare for the Common Man
Stan Getz and Joao Gilberto: Girl from Ipanema (or Desafinado)
Rush: Spirit of Radio
Modest Mouse: Lampshades on Fire
Nero: Must be the Feeling
The Who: Baba O'Riley

[fsimms]

The SongTowers are very good, but since you did mention the Supercharged SongTowers,  that is the way that I would go.  I had a Veracity speaker for 10 years and it sounded very exciting to me.  My girlfriend would come over and listen to music on them with me.  Each time I played them I couldn't believe how good they sounded.  I borrowed a friend's SongTowers and compared them in my system along side my Veracities.  I know it is more money, but I think the increase in quality of sound is well worth it.  Still the plain SongTowers are great too and probably compare to anything in the stores at $5k.  The SS would probably beat anything in the stores for  less than $10k. IMHO

Bob

Edit: Contact Jim Salk and ask him if there is anybody with SongTowers or Veracities near you that you could heard and take your wife with you to listen.

[ArthurDent]

Welcome to AC DocNice. As Bob says, check with Jim on where you might be able to audition some STs, or other versions of interest. Most of his extended family are willing to share their systems. I'd also agree you'll be hard pressed to find a b&m speaker less than $5k that compares to the stock ST. I'd guess there may be some, but few & far between. In general I think you'll find the ribbons a little smoother than the stock tweets. I've heard both the ST ribbons, and the QWs, which were an early Veracity 2 way no longer available, and both are a step up from my stock STs.

As with many you may find the toughest part of purchasing a speaker from Jim is choosing the finish if you don't go with a stock one, the quality of the sound is the easy part. There are a lot of us Salk folks here, and I'm sure you'll get other thoughts & input. Jim is a straight shooter, and won't try to over or under sell you on what he feels meets your needs & budget. Enjoy the search, and keep asking questions, someone here almost certainly has had the same questions at some point or another, so lots of good info available. 

[Big Red Machine]

Some food for thought:

Your room is almost ideal in dimensions except for the height, so great start.

Remember that factory direct pricing means that you should listen to speakers twice Jim's price to do a comparable listening audition.

You WILL question all your electronics after placing Salks into your room. Happens to all of us and still pisses me off that I have to keep upgrading to keep up with their performance.

Why settle for 2 or 3 fake finishes on store brands when you can have 6 different veneers and go with a dye on it as well for practically zip.

Songtowers are fantastic. Veracities are killer. Chose wisely!

Salk is known for getting the midrange RIGHT. No characters need apply.

Resale on Salks will be higher than any other brand.

[ernest787]

I have a pair of Songtowers with RT.  When I purchased them and began using them I was blown away.  I had friends come over and we listened to some jams and no one could believe the music reproduction.  It sounded like guitar amps were in the room with us.

That said.  Curiosity got the best of me.  Started upgrading components to get more out of the STRT.  This eventually lead to me buying a pair of HT3s and moving the STRT to the TV room. 

The HT3s were a different world.  A friend came over and couldn't believe what he was hearing.  He is a music producer and said he woudl love to master an album on them b/c of the detail they bring.

That said, you can't go wrong with whatever you choose in the Salk line.  Just be prepared to second guess everything else in your chain and want to upgrade things along the way to get even more from the speakers.  Hopefully you have stronger will than I did, lol

[Randy]

Doc Nice, I sent you a private message.

[laulau]

I've had my set of SongTowers for a couple of years and still enjoy them as much today as the day they were delivered.
My experience is written up here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=117346.0

Here are a couple of threads that piqued my interest in Salk when I was just starting my speaker search. Interesting reading...
Nuance's Journey
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/919069-my-journey-find-perfect-speaker.html

Funkmonkey's Speakerquest
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/995082-speakerquest-so-far.html

[JP78]

Primary use is home theater, followed by playing pop and dance music at high volume while working on weekends. However, while that is the primary use, the most important use is attentive music listening to jazz, choral, and light pop. This is where I want the speaker to shine and both low and high volume are important to me. For home theater and loud music I just want them not to suck.

The Salk speaker models you mention in your original post are indeed great speakers but they may be the wrong tool for job as you've described them. 

There's no way SongTowers, or SST can play room-shaking Calvin Harris or David Guetta a for a room of your size, nor will they be handle the LFE track for home theater unless you're going to use a very good sub and crossover the speakers. I believe Rythmik is a very popular subwoofer brand with Salk owners.

To be clear, I've heard the original SongTowers though not the SST.  That being said, the brilliant crossover work and TL cabinet can't overcome the physical limitations of two excellent-but-smaller-midwoofer drivers.  And it's worth noting that the SongTower midrange is very clearly steps above the speakers you've mentioned liking.

The Hiquophon (dome) tweeter in the ST is incredibly smooth and natural, I think if you're going to go with an a/v receiver or a more cost-effective SS amplifier you'll be much happier with the dome tweeter.  Ribbons really do tend to highlight the brightness of less-than-ideal equipment or recordings and this may clearly exaggerate a disjointed feeling between the ribbon tweeter and woofer.

You'll be hard-pressed to find any speaker manufacturer that can deliver a (high SPL) full-range speaker with a world-class midrange for <$10K. This is very much the unicorn of hi-fi.

The HT2-TL could very well be all the speaker you need for just music listening, and then you could flip the switch for the sub for pop/dance/HT duties when the time comes.  You also won't feel like you're missing a foundation to music and also don't need to spend a ton on a high quality subwoofer with DEQ for seamless integration. Depending on the bass gain in your room you may not even need the sub.

Can you please list your ancillary equipment?  Are you willing to have the subwoofer(s)? turned on for some music / all types of music?

Best,

[DMurphy]

I think you raise some valid points about running the ST's full range at very high volume in a very large room.  But I will have to beg to differ about ribbons vs. domes.  A good ribbon with a good crossover will actually be more forgiving on many types of badly recorded music.  Ribbons do not have an inherently brighter sound than domes.  If anything, the opposite is the case, with domes consistently producing more output in the ssssssssssssssssss region of the frequency spectrum.  That's the area of sibilance, hiss, and some other nasties on poor recordings.  I think ribbons got a bad reputation because they were often run hot or crossed too low, with resulting harmonic distortion in the 2-3 kHz region.   

[zybar]

I have a pair of ST's being driven by a Denon HT receiver in my living room/dining room area that has 20' ceilings and around 800-1200' sq ft, depending on how I count things (it is a Contemporary house with a very open floor plan).  While it won't shake the walls or foundation, it plays at a very high level while staying clean and tight.

While I have a few subs sitting around and not being used right now, I don't feel the need to bring them into the mix.

That said, I do think a sub would add a good amount to the HT experience.  In my old house I had 5 ST's + 3-6 subs and it made for a killer HT setup!!

George

[JP78]

I think you raise some valid points about running the ST's full range at very high volume in a very large room.  But I will have to beg to differ about ribbons vs. domes.  A good ribbon with a good crossover will actually be more forgiving on many types of badly recorded music.  Ribbons do not have an inherently brighter sound than domes.  If anything, the opposite is the case, with domes consistently producing more output in the ssssssssssss region of the frequency spectrum.  That's the area of sibilance, hiss, and some other nasties on poor recordings.  I think ribbons got a bad reputation because they were often run hot or crossed too low, with resulting harmonic distortion in the 2-3 kHz region.

Dennis - I would obviously say to trust your opinion over mine, especially given your extensive experience with designing the crossovers for these Salk speakers versus mine having not listened to all the models being asked about. 

I should have rephrased; in my experience it was more the inherent hardness of some SS amplifiers I would notice more emphasized in ribbons vs domes, again this has applied to planar and ribbon speakers I have owned (VMPS, Apogee) and does not necessarily apply to Salks.

zybar - Again, your first-hand experience living with is certainly more worthwhile than my limited experiences, but when dance music has synthetic bass fundamentals at well-below 20Hz at +100dB peaks I can't imagine the ST as I had heard them not hitting their limits. Of course, for more instrumental-based music and acoustic, vocals, etc this is not nearly a concern (if at all). We all have a different idea of what dance music is so I could also be well-skewed in what I think about versus what the OP listens to.  Also, that's a great looking room you have there!

DocNice - can you list some songs/artists for the pop/dance music and maybe some idea of SPLs that you listen loudly at?

I have a tremendous respect and have enjoyed my time listening to Salk speakers at the homes of friends and the Axponas I have attended. I've brought up a contrarian point more simply to keep expectations in line with what is physically possible. The Songtowers do represent a world-class value but even such excellent speakers do have real-world limitations.

Best,

[mick wolfe]

I agree with just about everything that's been said in regard to the SongTowers. It's a beautifully voiced /well refined speaker IF your source and amplification are up to the task. They'll play plenty loud within reason, but they're not PA or disco speakers. Then again, neither is the Large Advent.( one of audio's all time great values BTW )  Probably need a bit more info on your source/ amplification and what you consider "loud enough" in SPL's.  Also, I have to agree with Dennis. A well designed/implemented ribbon can sound more "laid back" than a dome. That said, the Hiquipon dome in the stock SongTower is excellent.

[DocNice]

Thanks for all the amazing feedback. I thought I had settled on getting the Salks, but have since been seriously considering another option, but you guys are really persuasive!

[ctviggen]

I think you raise some valid points about running the ST's full range at very high volume in a very large room.  But I will have to beg to differ about ribbons vs. domes.  A good ribbon with a good crossover will actually be more forgiving on many types of badly recorded music.  Ribbons do not have an inherently brighter sound than domes.  If anything, the opposite is the case, with domes consistently producing more output in the ssssssssssssssssss region of the frequency spectrum.  That's the area of sibilance, hiss, and some other nasties on poor recordings.  I think ribbons got a bad reputation because they were often run hot or crossed too low, with resulting harmonic distortion in the 2-3 kHz region.

I've always liked ribbons better than domes.  To my ears, domes can be ear-piercingly bright (B&W comes to mind) if not done well. Of course, speaker design has a lot to do with ribbons v. domes, too.

[kingdeezie]

Thanks for all the amazing feedback. I thought I had settled on getting the Salks, but have since been seriously considering another option, but you guys are really persuasive!

In this hobby, both through the traditional retail experiance, as well as direct, there is a lot of thievery, disingenousness, and out right criminality.

From stolen money, shoddy craftsmanship, missed deadlines, and misrepresentation of products, there is a rampant problem in this hobby.

Salk is a breath of fresh air in this increasingly toxic landscape.

You could argue over what speaker might sound better at any of Salk's given price points, but any other company could only ever hope to match the Salk companies combination of customer service, build quality, and that "it" factor. From the individualized birth certificate, to the beautiful culmination of all the peices together, standing in your listening room, there is just something comforting about purchasing from Salk.

Just my two cents.

[resonance]

Hear ye, hear ye. That was the best said Two Cents!

[audiotom]

I have a pair of ST's being driven by a Denon HT receiver in my living room/dining room area that has 20' ceilings and around 800-1200' sq ft, depending on how I count things (it is a Contemporary house with a very open floor plan).  While it won't shake the walls or foundation, it plays at a very high level while staying clean and tight.

While I have a few subs sitting around and not being used right now, I don't feel the need to bring them into the mix.

That said, I do think a sub would add a good amount to the HT experience.  In my old house I had 5 ST's + 3-6 subs and it made for a killer HT setup!!

George



George

You have such a beautiful home
the Hearth, great access wood "mantle"
the fire place accents
the tasteful abstract artwork
your ability to show off the ST but not be intrusive
and those windows

very nice

Tom