[Kenneth Patchen]

With today's cars I no longer question how things work. Why bother trying to understand something that will require a mechanic and a computer to fix?

Anyway, here are two questions. (It's not that I'm lazy. I've searched the internet but haven't found the answers. Perhaps something here could help.)

Does AWD create a noisier riding experience than FWD? If so, is the ride slightly noisier or significantly so?

Are 19" tires noisier than 17"?

There must be a standard measurement for car noise but none of the car reviews ever mention it and only talk about car noise in vague terms such as "very noisy", "very quiet", etc? Why don't they provide actual numbers?

My thanks for your time.

KP

[RDavidson]

Should we assume your overall goal is to have a quieter ride? What is the make / model of your car?

I think tire noise is more dependent on tire design and materials more so than tire size, but perhaps some others here have more insight.

[nickd]

There are very few mechanical things in AWD or FWD that create any real noise. Most measurable noise in cars comes from tire contact with pavement, wind, engine and exhaust.

Insulation and dampening compounds cost money and add weight. They are usually more prevalent on higher trim levels and vary according to brand. Newer cars are however getting better all the time in that regard.

The tires are the only option most of us have to affect noise in our ride. Tread design (think 35" truck knobby mud tires as a worst case) and rubber formulation play a huge dividend in road noise.

There are other things like suspension bushings (soft or stiff) that affect tire noise too. just like audio, dampening makes things quiet.

Go drive a new AWD Buick and you will get an idea of what is possible with modern dampening and insulation. Then to experience the other end of the spectrum go drive a 1985 4x4 Toyota pickup with 32" muders.

I would imagine you can find a model and trim package that is a good compromise between capability and comfort. There has never been a time like this where such performance and selection were available in the automotive world.

[Bob in St. Louis]

I have nothing to add, but agree with everything that's been said so far. 

"Back in the day", magazine reviews  used to publish interior noise dB numbers at certain speeds.

[DaveC113]

AWD vs FWD is a non-issue wrt noise, AWD is a performance feature than some find valuable and others do not. Personally, I hate how fwd cars drive and would rather have rwd, but I own a Subaru WRX which is AWD.

Tire sidewall height (aspect ratio) will make a massive difference in NVH (noise, vibration and harshness) as will the type of tire selected. A 17" vs 19" rim with the same tire diameter will have very different feel to them, as well as very different prices when you need to change them. This is really a personal choice and you should test drive both options if possible.

[JLM]

I own FWD and AWD.  AWD has more moving parts, so is bound to be noisier.

And I agree with Dave that sidewall height affects NVH, but tread design is the only substantial factor here.  Gripper, off road tread designs are noisy.  I suppose tire compound (harder/softer) could also affect road noise.

[JoshK]

Not precisely related but I just upgrade my Jeep's wheels from 33" Duratracs (not mudders, more of a hybrid aggressive all terain) to 35" Nitto Mud Grapplers.  The difference in noise is significant!   In my case it adds to cool factor.  Before I had the Jeep my dad had BFG hybrids and they were a lot noisey (and worse performing) than the Duratracs.   So tread pattern I would say it very significant. 

[Big Red Machine]

Audi Quattro - and never look back.....

[Bob in St. Louis]

Well...Ok, now I'll chime in...
AWD is only FWD unless front wheel slippage is detected, then the rear wheels kick in. So yea, while AWD does technically have more moving parts, half of them aren't doing anything under the vast majority of driving conditions.

As far as tire noise goes, there will be no difference between sizes. Doesn't matter if it's a 15" or a 22". Given the fact the tire brand, speed rating, and tread design is the same. Now, when you hit a pothole, a tire with more sidewall will take that hit with less pomp and circumstance than a lower sidewall.

[Kenneth Patchen]

Yes, a quiet ride is at the top of my list of 'must haves'.

My Ford Fusion Hybrid is now in the auto graveyard after being T-boned in NC. Very quiet car, good mpg. I'm looking at 2016 vehicles, mostly SUVs. I have dogs, plural, and a camping trailer, singular. I drove a Honda CRV for a few years, several changes in tires, sound dampening added, still, highway noise so loud I feared for my hearing. Crap mpg. Never again.

I've read dozens of reviews. Not one mentioned NVH specifically or an NVH rating, if there is one. Cars are described as "noisy" or "quiet" or something along those lines.  Why isn't there a Marcel Marceau reference scale of sound measurement, this car rates an acceptable 12 but this car is a menacing 42 on the MM scale. Yes, I too remember when the car mag reviews included decibel ratings. No longer.

I'm driving a Mazda CR5 today, reviewed as 'quiet', better than average mpg. But how quiet is quiet?

Waiting for zee bus ... (that's a Marcel Marceau reference kids).

Thanks all.
KP

[DaveC113]

Well...Ok, now I'll chime in...
AWD is only FWD unless front wheel slippage is detected, then the rear wheels kick in. So yea, while AWD does technically have more moving parts, half of them aren't doing anything under the vast majority of driving conditions.

As far as tire noise goes, there will be no difference between sizes. Doesn't matter if it's a 15" or a 22". Given the fact the tire brand, speed rating, and tread design is the same. Now, when you hit a pothole, a tire with more sidewall will take that hit with less pomp and circumstance than a lower sidewall.

There are all sorts of different AWD systems, some are like you say others like in my WRX split the power 50/50 using a viscous coupling. The STi has a computer controlled center differential but is usually 40/60 when cruising around, but it can be locked or limited by the driver. Other Subarus with automatic transmissions are 90% FWD until it slips, then more power is transferred.

I agree tire noise depends on tread but aspect ratio makes a huge difference in handling, vibration, etc...

[mresseguie]

KP,

I can't say anything to the FWD vs AWD nor can I say anything about the 17" vs 19" as these are out of my experience. However, I can speak to noise damping in vehicles.

My son and I removed the seats, carpets, center consoles, door liners, etc. from my '07 Access cab Tacoma a few years ago. We cleaned the metal before laying down a patchwork of Dynamat Xtreme (not a solid layer - more a checkerboard coverage) onto the metal floor, rear wall, side walls, and fire wall. Then, we lay down a full coverage 'carpet' of Raammat Ensolite peel & stick damping material over the checkerboard Dynamat. We then replaced all the carpeting, console, seats, etc.

Neither the Dynamat nor the Raammat is particularly heavy. We may have added 15 lbs to my pickup. When folks complain about how heavy damping material is, they must be talking about Mass Loaded Vinyl (MLV), which is very heavy.

I have an exceptionally quiet pickup thanks to all the damping material in my cab.

http://www.raamaudio.com/ensolite-iuo-peel-and-stick-14-sq-ft-per-running-yard-3-per-pack-of-bxt-ii-recommended-absolutely-the-best-foam-on-the-market/

Michael

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Retired English teacher's note: I did not use 'dampening' materials to 'damp' the noise levels in my pickup. I do not dampen my audio equipment in an effort to damp noise. Do people use spray bottles or just dump a gallon of water on their equipment?
to dampen = to moisten
to damp = to make quieter

Honestly, I promise to refrain from further grammar corrections. This grammar lesson has been percolating inside my mind for months because I've read dozens of posts about the SQ improvement realized after moistening audio equipment. These testimonials come from average Joes, but also from industry manufacturers who ought to know better than to recommend moistening audio gear. It boggles the mind.

[Kenneth Patchen]

KP,

 
][/i] material over the checkerboard Dynamat. We then replaced all the carpeting, console, seats, etc.






I have an exceptionally quiet pickup thanks to all the damping material in my cab.

http://www.raamaudio.com/ensolite-iuo-peel-and-stick-14-sq-ft-per-running-yard-3-per-pack-of-bxt-ii-recommended-absolutely-the-best-foam-on-the-market/

 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Retired English teacher's note: I did not use 'dampening' materials to 'damp' the noise levels in my pickup. I do not dampen my audio equipment in an effort to damp noise. Do people use spray bottles or just dump a gallon of water on their equipment?
to dampen = to moisten
to damp = to make quieter

Honestly, I promise to refrain from further grammar corrections.

Michael,
No problem with the grammar lesson, appreciate it. I went to a military high school taught by fierce benedictine monks. I had a tendency to drift off during the exciting bits so I missed some things. I remember the punishment but can't remember if it was corporal or corporeal.

Can I blame that dampening error on auto-correct? My IPAD is acting possessed today.

I added Dynamat to the CRV, didn't do much.

Thanks all, your answers have been very helpful.

Take care,
KP

[Bob in St. Louis]

Just for grins, I checked Car&Driver to see if they published cound level specs on a new car.
Since I work for Volvo, I checked an XC60. Here's the interior sound decibel level under various circumstances.
Check the table on the left side, bottom page:

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015-volvo-xc60-t6-drive-e-test-review-car-and-driver2015-volvo-xc60-t6-drive-e.pdf

[RDavidson]

Well, a CRV is not a high-end vehicle, nor are typical Toyotas, Mazdas, Nissans, Fords, etc. That's not to say there aren't exceptions in this auto sector with regard to refinement, but.......

Where you'll pretty much always find quieter and more refined vehicles are the luxury brands, like Acura, Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Cadillac, etc....
Costs to damp (thanks mresseguie!) these more expensive vehicles are less scrutinized by the bean counters and is a point of differentiaton between, for example, a Camry and an Lexus GS.

[avahifi]

Tirerack.com runs user surveys on all the tires it sells.  Tires are rated on many aspects, including ride and noise.  Check that out.

Me ---I would not do without my AWD Audi S6 Avant, especially on Minnesota snowy roads.  With winter tires it is unstoppable on nasty roads. It is quiet and comfortable, not much noise unless all 350HP are opened up. No, it is not a FWD with rear drive kicking in when needed.  Power is split front and rear as needed, but mostly RWD.

Frank

[WGH]

The Goodyear Wrangler® SilentArmor® has a DuPont™ Kevlar layer that really works. They are the quietest tires I have ever had on my '77 Jeep Wagoneer, plus they are very grabby off road, paved streets, and in the rain.
https://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tires/wrangler-silentarmor

[JLM]

+1 for TireRack.com to do your research.

Unfortunately they don't sell/cover every brand, but the only popular brand that they don't handle that I was interested in were Cooper.

I've had very good experiences with Goodyear Assurance Comfort Treads and Goodyear Assurance Triple Treads, racking up over 400,000+ miles on them.  Not inexpensive, but they last the rated 80,000 miles and are very good in rain and snow.  On my Outback I've never failed to make it through any sane amounts of snow.

[FullRangeMan]

Are 19" tires noisier than 17"?

I have seen sport cars with big wheels and low tire noise.
What increases tire noise is the design of the riding band proper for land.

[Kenneth Patchen]

Just for grins, I checked Car&Driver to see if they published cound level specs on a new car.
Since I work for Volvo, I checked an XC60. Here's the interior sound decibel level under various circumstances.
Check the table on the left side, bottom page:

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2015-volvo-xc60-t6-drive-e-test-review-car-and-driver2015-volvo-xc60-t6-drive-e.pdf

Thanks muchly, Bob, that's exactly what I was looking for but didn't find. I'll check for others . I visited the Mazda dealer today and none of the salesmen could give me exact figures on noise levels. Evidently, I'm the first person to ask for them. Ever. I did like driving the CX5 Grand Touring. Quiet on side streets and highway.

The salesman did tell me that 19" wheels were quieter than 18" and a leather interior absorbed more extraneous noise than cloth interiors and I said hmmmm.

Thanks to everyone for tire recommendations. Frank, thanks for the tip about the Audi.
Cheers,
KP



Frank,