[DVV]

I agree that seems reasonable.  Perhaps I entered this whole conversation in the wrong frame of mind.  Speaking strictly for myself, dishonesty is a pet peave of mine.  I'm the guy who chased a guy 5 blocks across town when I discovered he left $300 at the ATM.  I'm the guy who went back to the Western Union office when I realized they changed my $20 bill as a $100- I gave the extra $80 back.  When people try to decide how white lie is or rationalize that others have lied worse, I just shake my head.  ...

Yep, know the feeling. Went back to a restaurant because the waitress gave me change for a much bigger banknote. But then, in 1988, in Philadelphia, I got chased by a shop attendant because I forgot my entire wallet on the counter. He wouldn't take any beer money. So the next day, I bought him a six pack and delivered it personally. There's no getting away from me.

I completely agree - it's about whether you lied or not, not how much you lied. A safe guess is that if you lied once, even a little, you will probably have lied more elsewhere on other occasions.

Disclaimer: I'm from the Midwest. We still cling to Crazy Notions here.

I'm not, but oddly enough, I also cling to appearently same Crazy Notions. Seems to be a universal madness.

Cheers,
DVV

[Rob Babcock]

Glad I'm not the only one!   No, my life hasn't been blameless, and I'm not a saint by any stretch, but I was raised to always do the right thing, regardless of the cost.  The two previous examples I cited came at the brokest points I've ever been in my life; one of them marked a point when I'd been out of work for a month.  The guy at the ATM who left his cash insisted on flippin' me a $20, and I couldn't gracefully decline.  Anyway, he felt good and it saved him $280!

I'm fightin' against the world, here, and I know I can't win.  I'm not a Christian (agnostic/atheist is closer to the truth) but my folks are Christian, and I was brought up to tell the truth and show compassion to my "fellow man."  Whatever hypocracy is evident in institutions, I can attest that it's not present in all followers of those religions.  My parents are as straight as it gets, and they sleep well at night.

Of course, this doesn't really pertain to Tara Labs and whatever they stepped in.  I just want to point out that you don't have to be a fundamentalist Christian to dismiss moral relativism as complete bullshit.  What "is" is need not be defined for me:  honesty is defined by your intentions, not what you're caught with.  For me telling the truth is as natural as breathing- that's not to say my whole life is anyone's business, but if I sell something, you can bet your bottom dollar you'll get what I said you'll get.  Or your money back.  Period.  Dot, dot, dot.

End of rant!  Seriously!

[Tabascosauce]

I recently purchased a couple of interconnect cables.

Next to each other on the same rack were a Tara Labs "Made in USA" for $49, and an unfamiliar brand, "Made in China" cable for $7.

I purchased one of each.

The $7 cable turned out to be quite reasonable for the job required.

What was I paying the extra $$$ for?

[DVV]

I recently purchased a couple of interconnect cables.

Next to each other on the same rack were a Tara Labs "Made in USA" for $49, and an unfamiliar brand, "Made in China" cable for $7.

I purchased one of each.

The $7 cable turned out to be quite reasonable for the job required.

What was I paying the extra $$$ for?

Yuppie vanity.

Cheers,
DVV

[DVV]

Glad I'm not the only one!   No, my life hasn't been blameless, and I'm not a saint by any stretch, but I was raised to always do the right thing, regardless of the cost.  The two previous examples I cited came at the brokest points I've ever been in my life; one of them marked a point when I'd been out of work for a month.  The guy at the ATM who left his cash insisted on flippin' me a $20, and I couldn't gracefully decline.  Anyway, he felt good and it saved him $280!

I'm fightin' against  ...

Ego te absolvo, mi fili.

Same here, Rob. You don't have to be a church goer or follower to be decent, and going to church by itself does not make anyone decent. All mobsters go to church - so what? Psalms in the morning, murder by night.

Also, I am dead set against any church which sells absolutions; that must be the heigth of hypocrisy mankind could ever aspire to.

Ultimately, if God exists, and if he's anything like we are told he is, surely he can't be that vain to demand he be sung to with a foul heart? Surely perfection is above personal vanity?

To be fair, whether I have a soul or not is just as questionable.

Which leaves  a simple message - live your life as a decent person. That's it folks.

Cheers,
DVV

P.S. Before anyone asks what has this to do with Tara Labs - had they gotten the message, they would never have made the papers, especially not the way they did.

[jude]

While talking to Matthew Bond last week, we ended up eventually discussing this whole situation.

He mentioned to me that the only cables in question in this situation is a portion of their Prism line (their least expensive line).  Their other cable products, including the other part of their Prism line, their upcoming Vector line, and their RSC, RSC Air, ISM and Zero lines are all made in the USA.

I am in no way affiliated with TARA Labs, but I thought this clarification worth posting about, in light of the fact that I've not seen it mentioned before.

[DVV]

A question that has been nagging me for a while - why Tara Labs?

I mean, I know for a fact that others do exactly the same thing. When they are big enough, they do write in small print somewhere "Made in Korea" or "Made in Taiwan", etc, but when they are small, and consequently more expensive, they don't dare do that for the prices they usually charge.

So, why Tara Labs? What makes them so special?

Could be a freak accident.

But it could also be somebody blew the whistle on them. Somebody with a grudge, or much more likely, an angry competitor. Such practices are not uncommon. I am not saying everybody does it, but they are not uncommon, over the years I have seen it done enough times to accept the fact that an uncomfortably large number of people (for my taste) is perfectly capable of it.

If so, and if I were the law, I'd investigate the whistle blower just as much as the accused.

Just a thought.

Cheers,
DVV

[DVV]

While talking to Matthew Bond last week, we ended up eventually discussing this whole situation.

He mentioned to me that the only cables in question in this situation is a portion of their Prism line (their least expensive line).  Their other cable products, including the other part of their Prism line, their upcoming Vector line, and their RSC, RSC Air, ISM and Zero lines are all made in the USA.

I am in no way affiliated with TARA Labs, but I thought this clarification worth posting about, in light of the fact that I've not seen it mentioned before.

With all respect Jude, that's a lame excuse. It's like saying we killed him only 10%, or we stole just 30% of the money there.

I'm afraid honesty is from the digital world, it's a binary number, it's either 1 or 0.

At least, that's my view.

Cheers,
DVV

[TheChairGuy]

No question, this is at worst a bold faced lie, and at least, horribly short-sighted and stupid.  Tara Labs is guilty of something immoral; not sure to what extent.

I'm sure this kind of thing goes on in many industries and in many countries, however (outright lying AND stupidity).

Just to use an analogy that burns me up just a bit, olive oil can say 'Product of Italy' if it's packed in Italy.  The olives can be grown in Turkey (where most Italian oil is reportedly from), Morocco, Tunisia or Greece, but it says 'Made in Italy' when you buy it from an Italian packing company.  Italy is the largest exporter of olive oil in the world, yet barely produces enough annually for domestic-only consumption - nifty huh?.    I don't ever buy Italian oil for that reason.

Now, if it's good tasting oil maybe it shouln't matter, but I won't pay for what I assume to be a premium for Italian oil, when I can buy others without that premium.  So, Italian olive oil never finds it's way into my house.  

Way aside, I find that oil from Spain is routinely the best value and taste.  Not sure why, just my findings.

[DVV]

...
Just to use an analogy that burns me up just a bit, olive oil can say 'Product of Italy' if it's packed in Italy.  The olives can be grown in Turkey (where most Italian oil is reportedly from), Morocco, Tunisia or Greece, b ...

Not from Turkey, man, not from Turkey. I lived there and have been all over the country over those 5.5 years.

Turkey grows enough for its own use and maybe some for export, believe me. And as you probably know, olive trees take a looooong time to grow.

Italy, on the other hand, and especially Sicily and Sardinia, are all covered in olive tree groves; in fact, in some places, those are olive tree jungles, that many, and over hundreds of square miles. The micro climate is ideal for olives, and these are Sicili's prime export item, accounting for over 60% of their total exports value.

Personally, I wouldn't change Greek olive oil for the world, but of course, that's a matter of taste.

Cheers,
DVV

[jude]

....It's like saying we killed him only 10%....

Okay.

With all respect Jude, that's a lame excuse....

Actually, I didn't offer an excuse.  I think it's assumed (also based on other discussions I've read about this) that this situation involved all of TARA's products, and I was just clarifying that it does not.

[TheChairGuy]

DVV,

Way aside for Audio Central now (and if I post again on the subject of olive oil I, the moderator, will have to remove my posts to intergalactic wastebin!), but you're on target as am I with our statements.  It seems Italian oil doesn't eminate from Turkey after all...I thought that's what I remembered.

I spent a couple years in Gourmet Food trade, and still get the publications...nonethe;lless, my memory is fuzzy on some aeas. But, I just read that Italy is the largest net importer of olive oil in the world AND the 2nd largest exporter (after Spain).  

A bit more dug up on the net:

Today, there are more than 150 brands, most of which are imported from Spain, Portugal, Greece, and Italy. For the most intense flavor (leafy green and grassy) I recommend Organic Extra Virgin that is “estate bottled,” which means that the olives were grown and pressed in the same location. Best quality is from Sicily, Tuscany or the southern regions of France. California also produces excellent, though sometimes overpriced olive oils; many are organic. Spanish olive oil, which tends to be lighter in color and slightly sweeter, provides excellent value for money.

Here’s what to look for....

Many labels and bottles are designed to impress you with their authenticity by displaying “medals” or other awards. Don’t be fooled by beautiful packaging. A particular brand might have won an award in 1903, but keep in mind that the taste and quality of olives differ from season to season, just as a fine wine would
 
Read the label carefully. For example, only a small percentage of olive oil labeled as “Italian” or “Imported from Italy” is actually produced in Italy from Italian olives; most of the olives are grown and processed in Greece and Spain and shipped to Italy just for packaging. Read the labels carefully — nomenclature like “packed in” or “bottled in” is a sign that olives themselves were grown elsewhere. Look for clear and precise language, for example, “grown and pressed in Lucca, Italy” or “made from Italian olives.”

[Marbles]

Please move these posts to the Sports bar where you two girls can talk about all the cooking you want      

[DVV]

Please move these posts to the Sports bar where you two girls can talk about all the cooking you want      

Actually Rob, as any olein, olive oil can be used for greasing of less than welcoming entry points ... For further reference, please see "Last tango In Paris".

And it's already green, man, healthy, natural, so if she sues, you'll have Greenepeace behind you.

Hasta la vista,
DVV

[DVV]

... Actually, I didn't offer an excuse.  I think it's assumed (also based on other discussions I've read about this) that this situation involved all of TARA's products, and I was just clarifying that it does not.

I understood it was their excuse - we sinned, but only with our cheaper models, so actually, it's a small sin.

It was my understanding that you simply relayed what you were told.

Cheers,
DVV

[jude]

I understood it was their excuse - we sinned, but only with our cheaper models, so actually, it's a small sin.

It was my understanding that you simply relayed what you were told.

Cheers,
DVV

Man, you're tightly wound.

No, that wasn't the tone of the phone conversation we had -- I called with the primary purpose of asking about a particular product, from a customer standpoint, and we ended up discussing the other stuff because I ended up bringing it up, too.  What I posted was an answer Matthew gave when I asked him if it was their entire line that was involved.  I asked him that question because the posts I'd read in other forums seemed to suggest that it involved their entire line.  He answered the question, and that was that on that specific point.

So, yes, I am relaying what I was told; but, no, you're wrong in that it wasn't offered as an excuse, but merely as an answer to a question I asked.

[DVV]

Man, you're tightly wound.

No Jude, I'm not, really; in fact, I'm a rather easy going person in general. The only thing I am most intlerant of is when somebody starts to insult my intelligence, or what I have of it, with lame excuses. Even if they are given by the way, to a by the way question.

You see, probably the key reason why I hang out here is because most folks here won't take any bull from anybody. I like and respect that, so I breathe easy here. If anyone's not sure, or is in doubt, he asks and between us, an answer is always found.

No, that wasn't the tone of the phone conversation we had -- I called with the primary purpose of asking about a particular product, from a customer standpoint, and we ended up discussing the other stuff because I ended up bringing it up, too.  What I posted was an answer Matthew gave when I asked him if it was their entire line that was involved.  I asked him that question because the posts I'd read in other forums seemed to suggest that it involved their entire line.  He answ ...

Jude, I got all that. But when you peel away the outer shell, it still comes down to what I pointed out - we only did it on our small models, so it's a small sin. We lied just 10%.

Just so we understand each other: I would never endorse a company shutdown, or a forced buyout, on basis of that sin. But they have to pay for it, one way or another. I think it will be one way and another. They will probably have to deal with the feds for misrepresentation, malpractices or some such, but they will also pay through tarnished image. Who's going to trust them now?

In my view, their tarnished image is by far the greater of the two evils, because it will linger on. The sad part is that they will have to take that blow, and there are so many others doing exactly the same thing who will get away with it, possibly even worse deeds.

As for me, while I have heard of Tara Labs, I have never even seen any one of their products; therefore, I am personally disinterested in any and all ways regarding Tara labs, except in pure principle only. And quite obviously, all this has nothing to do with you personally.

Cheers,
DVV