[Srajan Ebaen]

As a"typical equipment reviewer", I value the opinion of an individual who is an expert at a given thing, in this case the design and manufacture of high-efficiency wideband drivers using all going forms of magnet materials available.

Their currently best driver is a hybrid Neodymium/field-coil affair with a 9mm gap at 24'000 Gauss. And the designer's favourite motors for his own drivers is field-coil (if powered by a proper not switch-mode supply) followed by Neodymium. Those curious about more can read my interview with Holger in my preview of their Pi 9.87 system.

[DaveC113]

JLM, there is a lot of debate about the testing methods you describe, and I believe the speaker positioning machine was built by Harman, who Toole and Olive currently work for. I do believe their results are valuable, especially the results of blind vs sighted testing and the correlation of anechoic spin testing to listener preference. But Harman isn't going to give all their research away to inform every speaker designer in the world they are competing with and imo, the information given is enough to give a boost to their marketing but there is very little to no valuable information for a speaker designer to actually use. Honestly, we didn't need anechoic spin test results to tell us people prefer a flat FR with smooth off-axis response, thus a matching of dispersion of overlapping drivers at the xo point... this has also been spelled out by Geddes and others and is probably pretty high on any designer's priority list, it's in the "common sense" category of design priorities imo.

Also, those speaker listening tests using the shuffling machine test a single loudspeaker in the exact same position in the room, powered by rather cheap Proceed amplifiers. Obviously, there may be some issues with this kind of test as it doesn't take into account the different dispersion patterns of speakers, in fact they published results using Martin Logan (dipole) vs conventional cone and dome speakers set up the exact same way. In other words, there is no stereo, no optimized positioning and no optimized acoustic treatments to account for the differences in speaker design. And hopefully the amplifier works equally well for every speaker they test.

Anechoic chambers and speaker shuffling machines aren't exactly cheap and the results may not be informative, especially to someone who designs single driver speakers, so why would you possibly expect these kinds of measurements? You continually pick on Omega for not publishing measurements, but you're seriously picking on the wrong company. People don't buy single driver speakers for the measurements, and I'm sure you know the FR of a single driver isn't going to compare well to an active studio monitor with DSP, so why bother? Nobody cares, if flat FR were the top priority in choosing a speaker nobody would ever buy single driver speakers. They have other qualities people do value and I can say without a doubt people put emphasis on the wrong measurements and interpret them in wrong ways. Interpreting measurements takes a lot of experience and the fact is IF Omega did publish measurements the information will be abused and interpreted wrongly by a great majority of people.

Finally, Srajan's comment was about someone who actually designs drivers using every magnet material available, so it's not just any old opinion. It's the opinion of a rare expert on the subject and most people would find that sort of information valuable. Personally, I don't find the Omega 6.5" Alnico to be superior to the RS5 in every way, there are tradeoffs and the differences are mostly subjective imo. In many ways I think the RS5 is more accurate, but the micro detail and overall presentation of the alnico driver might be preferable to some.

[FullRangeMan]

JLM,
I mean say Louis or Canada Rob opinion may be valuable in this case.
I also would like this scientific A/B test you mention, but I know it will
not happen by any magazine.

[JLM]

Srajan,

Sorry for describing you as typical.  And sorry I don't Adler, wonder what his quote is based upon?

Dave,

I don't expect companies to do thorough/scientific testing to answer this question because there's little monetary incentive.  You're already proving the point I made above, that there will be those who dismiss or qualify findings in order to nullify results.  I'm just pointing how we could replace all this speculation with scientific methods. 

FR Man,

There are a few non-profit organizations that are in a position to do this research.  One biased opinion is little better than another if a definitive answer is what is really sought.

[Canada Rob]

It's ultimately ones ears that determine the purchase of audio gear if one is confident in what they perceive.  Reviews can be a good general guideline as to what may be good sounding, but sadly some buyers put more weight on reviews in making their choice rather than trusting their ears, or they take/bring a friend along to help them in choosing.  Trust your ears, it's them you have to please and nothing else.

Not just my ears, but my whole being finds the Alnico (I've only heard Omega) sound to be superior to anything I've heard in years of audio.  The sound is tonally even, smooth, and utterly seductive and addictive, yet with incredible detail retrieval, digging deep into a recording.  The huge sense of space and separation of instruments on the soundstage is the best I recall hearing.  My Alnico system can make my modest sized listening room vary from close and cosy, to cathedral, to outdoor venue, and to everything in between.  If I can describe the sound in three words it's "you are there".

[Big Red Machine]

Let's see if I can remember all the characteristics of Alnico vs. Neodymium I gathered from my transducer expert today.

Alnico is a much more sensitive material - meaning it can be finessed much easier through air gaps and placement. Neodymium is a much denser material and overall has more "power" ounce per ounce and is not finessed. Alnico's flux density permanently reduces immediately after formation and then holds that level forever. Alnico has a much higher formation temperature - 500 C due to the Cobalt content. Neodymium forms at 400 C and its magnetic density does not change after formation. The magnetic "curve" of Neodymium is a straight line with constant slope while the Alnico is "curved" slightly.

[Folsom]

I thought Alnico allowed some compression instead of error

[TQdB]

AlNiCo's higher sensitivity is from how easily it informs a field .. so it will tend to not only play well at low input levels but also play louder than other speaker types at lower wattages. But it can't continue this effect as input wattage increases .. because the material (the actual magnet, not just a voice coil) can be damaged/demagnetized if it's overdriven passed its rating (which will tend to be small by modern metrics). Metaphorically similar to 'floating the valves' in an engine, the system is damaged and won't 'rev as high' thereafter. Supposedly the VU power meters on old amplifiers were for the benefit of babying AlNiCo speakers, and any use of meters on most modern systems is just a bell and whistle for style points (although some boutique makers do still produce AlNiCo speakers obviously, but very not-mainstream).

Also AlNiCos do weaken with age. Depending upon the ratio of the elements used in any particular alloy, old AlNiCos are preferred even to new ones .. as some potential for overemphasis of the highs has mellowed out with the drop in field strength. I've heard of services which can recharge old or damaged AlNiCos. This is likely the same process used to magnetize their (and other magnet types) initial field set when new, never had it performed. There are wide swings of strength in versions of both AlNiCo and NIB, but NIB would generally be around six times more powerful.

[Canada Rob]

What's this thread got to do with the enjoyment of music?  Bottom line, Alnico drivers have a long standing reputation for superior sound and that's why they're so sought after - new and old builds.  People are paying a premium for ancient alnico drivers that work just fine.  One needn't worry about their magnets wearing out because we (and likely this planet as we currently know it) will be long gone before that happens.

Omega has never been about the numbers and never will be as long as Louis is at the helm.  Omega is more about art and soul, and conveying the emotion of the music in such a way as to pull the listener in and keep them there.  When I sit and listen to my systems my focus is on the music, not on how many hundreds of years my alnico or ferrite magnets will last. 

Since 2006 when Louis started with alnico he has never had an alnico driver back due to demagnetizing.  Owners of conventional HiFi speakers do have a legitimate worry though.  The heavy rubber surrounds on their drivers rotting out.

[srb]

Owners of conventional HiFi speakers do have a legitimate worry though.  The heavy rubber surrounds on their drivers rotting out.

Early unstabilized foam surrounds were subject to dry rot, but I routinely see (and own) 30+ year old drivers with butyl rubber surrounds that are in perfect condition.  Conversely, I have seen some vintage drivers with pleated accordion paper or cloth surrounds that have hardened over time.

Steve

[Canada Rob]

Early unstabilized foam surrounds were subject to dry rot, but I routinely see (and own) 30+ year old drivers with butyl rubber surrounds that are in perfect condition.  Conversely, I have seen some vintage drivers with pleated accordion paper or cloth surrounds that have hardened over time.

Steve

Climate plays a role in the decomposition of surrounds.  One of the reasons vintage speakers and drivers are still around and working fine is partly due to the fabric surround.

[FullRangeMan]

My experience with vintage radio alnicos (Semp and Philips) are similar to Canada Rob, they are addictive.