[roscoe65]

I've been trying to wrap my head around the appeal of Alnico vs. ferrite or neodymium magnets.  It can't simply be a matter of flux, since the latter can provide that in spades.  The Omega Alnico driver is purported to be head and shoulders above the ferrite models and completely different in character.

"M Jarve" at Audiokarma asserts that "The appeal of Alnico based drivers lies in their unique "soft-clipping" capability. As the magnetic field from the VC increase, the Alnico material begins to loose its magnetism. The loss of magnetism is only temporary, and the magnet returns to full strength after the field from the VC subsides. This gives the drivers themselves an almost tube-like quality."

"Billfort" states that "A comparison where everything is identical except for the magnet material is essentially impossible but I have heard some Lowther/SET systems where only the driver series was different (alnicos vs ferrite) and a few SET/Altec systems using both magnets. IMO there is a little alchemy happening with the SET>alnico combination (most noticeable with the Lowthers) that plugged me into the music better."

Others attribute the perceived superiority of Alnico to the "cult of the archaic", in which older technologies are romanticized and therefore viewed as superior.  In certain ultrafi applications we are seeing the resurgence of field coil speakers as an even more archaic and therefore superior flux source.

I'm old enough to remember the show reports of th late 80's and very early 90's when Japanese and French audiophiles were rolling our horn and SET systems, much to the ridicule of the audiophile press.  I'm not seeing those same Japanese and French audiophiles pushing field coils as the next step, so I am not so quick to ascribe the perceived superiority of older technology to the Cult of the Archaic.

Could anyone chime in as to why Alnico might be superior (or at least different)?

[rebbi]

+1 on this question.   

[pstrisik]

I can't speak at all about the physics of alnico vs fe.  I do have Super 7 XRS cabinets with both RS7A (alnico) and RS7V (for "vintage" - no whizzer) and can attest that there is notable difference in sound with my preference strongly towards the alnico for its smoothness, naturalness and midrange detail.


........Peter

[Big Red Machine]

So my Exotica speakers have Seas Exotica alnico magnetic drivers. Similar affinity for Alnico has been expressed by Salk owners for whatever reasons.

I have a transducer engineer in my R&D group who is into magnetics pretty heavily and I will ask him about what might be happening in the curves of each type.

[srb]

So my Exotica speakers have Seas Exotica alnico magnetic drivers. Similar affinity for Alnico has been expressed by Salk owners for whatever reasons.

Although alnico magnets are more expensive than ferrite, that alone doesn't turn a $300 driver into a $900 driver.  Apparently the more advanced voice coil, surround, spider and tighter manufacturing tolerances in consort with the alnico culminate to make the Seas Exotic a very special driver.  There probably aren't too many driver comparisons available where the only difference is the magnetic material alone.

Steve

[ZLS]

    For whatever the scientific reason; Alnico Drivers have a way of expressing Harmonic Information that just

sounds right. 

    People respond to it, and that is why Alnico Drivers continue to exist even though there are magnets that are

both cheaper and more powerful. 

    The sound of an Alnico Driver is "Musical"; once heard, not forgotten.

[rjbond3rd]

Some of those old (often mono) tube-powered radios and consoles do sound "glorious" with such a warm, rich, mesmerizing sound.  But is it merely the alnico?  The amp seems to be a factor.

[FullRangeMan]

Roscoe:
As is know the sound of Alnico magnets are awesome.
Hi magnetic flux dont means good sound, it just a tool to be used to get good SQ.
Ferrite magnets are suited to pro sound drivers, where price and power handling are rule factors.

Alnico have good sound for several solid reasons, nothing to do w/alchemy, some people dont know the facts and suggests magic.
Some reasons I remember are:
-All drivers magnets sends a NFB to the amp according to the music.
The amp need a ''good'' NFB from the speaker to form good SQ musc.

-Alnico magnet sends a negative feedback for the amp which is very benign to the amp, which is very pleasant to the human ear.

-Ferrite magnets sends a NFB to the amp which is unpleasant to the ear.

Unfortunately Alnico magnets price have increased after WWII due the hi demand of cobalt for the atomic era, the military and Electric reactors energy companies buy all conalt in the market and the price took off.

[Wind Chaser]

Alnico? Meh. What ever floats your boat. I bought a pair of 8" Telefunken / Isophons alnico drivers thinking they might be something special, but they sound like crap.

[JLM]

Still loving my AlNiCo Fostex F200A drivers that Bud Purine EnABL'd, finding them very musical.

And yes, if the extra money being invested into the magnet I'm sure it's natural that more/better materials, workmanship, and precision will be put into the rest of the driver.

[ozoid]

For me, the sound of the alnico was immediately apparent. I was listening to ZLS's dipole 3XRS and, almost as an afterthought, he asked if I'd like to hear the alnico monitors. Less than 2 bars in and I was hooked.

There's something about the tonality that I find hard to describe now, after a brief listen several months later. It's rich and organic, and what comes out of the speakers sounds more like music. I recently read some old Art Dudley columns in Stereophile on Shindo amps and the words he uses seem to apply to what I heard that afternoon.

And there's another technology: field coils. Shindo made one (and may still) and Line Magnetic makes a replica of the Western Electric 755A driver as a field coil and their driver-cabinet package is said to be quite good. They also sell an alnico version of the same 755A replica to Auditorium 23, which build its own cabinet.That too is also quite good. Either of them cost about 5x what Louis charges for his alnico monitors and both are the size of a small refrigerator.

I'll have more to say later about the Omega alnicos. Fedex tells me mine will arrive Tomorrow!

[Canada Rob]

Alnico? Meh. What ever floats your boat. I bought a pair of 8" Telefunken / Isophons alnico drivers thinking they might be something special, but they sound like crap.

Not really a way to judge an entire genre of driver/magnet.  Were they in a suitable enclosure?  What amp were they driven with?

[FullRangeMan]

There is various kinds of Alnico magnets, some are not good sound.
Some are showed in this chart:

[Srajan Ebaen]

Given that Holger Adler of Voxativ makes his own Ferrite, Neodymium, Alnico and field-coil drivers, I asked what the appeal of Alnico was

According to him, Alnico is much harder to work and physically very heavy to be labour and cost intensive (and requires extra bracing on the back side of the driver if as big as his, i.e. generating 100dB efficiencies with very high flux density). He has gone on record saying that they get equally good sound out of a properly engineering Neodymium motor. In short, here's someone who has no real horse in the race as they make everything and sell you whatever you fancy.  But Holger doesn't believe that Alnico offers real sonic advantages to offset the higher cost inherent in its manufacture. I'm just playing messenger here 

[roscoe65]

"But Holger doesn't believe that Alnico offers real sonic advantages to offset the higher cost inherent in its manufacture."

But the more salient question is disregarding the higher cost of manufacture does it offer any superiority?

[DaveC113]

Given that Holger Adler of Voxativ makes his own Ferrite, Neodymium, Alnico and field-coil drivers, I asked what the appeal of Alnico was

According to him, Alnico is much harder to work and physically very heavy to be labour and cost intensive (and requires extra bracing on the back side of the driver if as big as his, i.e. generating 100dB efficiencies with very high flux density). He has gone on record saying that they get equally good sound out of a properly engineering Neodymium motor. In short, here's someone who has no real horse in the race as they make everything and sell you whatever you fancy.  But Holger doesn't believe that Alnico offers real sonic advantages to offset the higher cost inherent in its manufacture. I'm just playing messenger here 

Like most things, implementation is everything. I've heard amazing drivers that use ferrite, neo and alnico. Options to fit personal preference are also a good thing. I too believe alnico isn't superior in every way and it might just come down to personal preference. But there is a difference in the character of sound with alnico drivers that some simply prefer.

BTW the latest Omega drivers are competitive with Voxativ from what I've heard, at a small fraction of the price for a complete speaker.

[FullRangeMan]

"But Holger doesn't believe that Alnico offers real sonic advantages to offset the higher cost inherent in its manufacture."

But the more salient question is disregarding the higher cost of manufacture does it offer any superiority?

This is a personal taste opinion, but in general people always like Alnico over the raw Ferrite.
Do you dont know how is Alnico sound?  If no, you must listen some FR Alnico or even a more easy to find guitar Alnico combo.

Voxativ prices are similar to Feastrex Gulp!
Omega Alnico prices were similar to Visaton/Alpair.

[JLM]

This is probably one of those issues beyond current science/technology to explain.  A double blind test of magnet types in identical drivers would be interesting, fairly easy to do, and should remove biases.  All else boils down to speculation.

[FullRangeMan]

Seems Omega 7A & 7F are these drivers, so Louis already have made this test.

[JLM]

Seems Omega 7A & 7F are these drivers, so Louis already have made this test.

That does not constitute controlled scientific or double blind testing.  What test methods were used?  Where are the published results?  What unbiased panel was used for the testing?  Have the test results been peer reviewed and found to be valid?  Sorry to say but Louis barely releases any driver specifications and has avoided such testing in the past as being too expensive.  Just look at his prices, U.S. based labor, and cabinet quality and you'll quickly realize that not much is left over to be invested into the drivers, let alone extensive research.

Listening tests at the Canadian Research Council (the current gold standard) involve using a variety of listeners (off the street, studio professionals, audiophiles, and musicians); a very large room with black acoustically transparent screen; a mechanical system to move speakers (in 3 seconds) in and out of place so each occupy the identical position; multiple repeated random samplings; never just A/B but normally A/B/C/D testing (4 samples) including an extra (a known standard of similar design/performance).  And keep in mind that the CRC is a non-biased, non-profit organization.  Even with all that, results often aren't clear cut, thus the reality of research.  If say the results indicated a clear cut winner of magnet types, inevitably vested parties would dismiss the findings or add qualifiers to nullify the results. 

Srajan's quote of Adler stating, "...equally good sound..." is apparently only based on one man's opinion, not scientific testing.  Naturally as a typical equipment reviewer Srajan would see no problem in valuing the opinion a single individual and the comment does not detail exactly what "equally good sound" means.  Seems to me that he didn't say "identical sound" so even by his words there is room for personal taste, thus we've come full circle.