HDMI Audio Extractors

DaveC113 · « **on:** 3 Jul 2015, 06:16 pm »

I have decided to stop paying DirecTV because I do not watch much TV and can download/stream what I want easily enough.

My computer has a regular HDMI out to my TV and I assumed my TV (Panasonic 58S2 Plasma) had audio outputs, which was not correct. When the HDMI out on my computer is used it no longer provides sound so I am in need of a HDMI audio extractor. Will something like this (link below) work properly or should I look into another solution? I am not too concerned about having the best quality audio for this purpose but I don't want something that badly degrades the audio or video signal either.

http://www.amazon.com/Extractor-Digital-Converter-De-Embedder-Decoder/dp/B005COKXCO

Phil A · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Jul 2015, 06:38 pm »

It should work. Amazon has a good return policy. There's a whole thread many pages long (in the hi-rez area) about these devices and some info here too:

http://everythingaudionetwork.blogspot.com/2013/04/audiophile-review-hdmi-de-embedder.html

srb · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Jul 2015, 06:49 pm »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 3 Jul 2015, 06:16 pm

When the HDMI out on my computer is used it no longer provides sound so I am in need of a HDMI audio extractor.

Not sure exactly what your setup is. Through what speakers do you want to hear audio?

If this is a laptop with an HDMI video output you may have to switch the computer's default internal speakers audio playback device to the HDMI Audio playback device.

Can you elaborate a bit more?

Steve

DaveC113 · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Jul 2015, 07:34 pm »

Quote from: srb on 3 Jul 2015, 06:49 pm

Not sure exactly what your setup is. Through what speakers do you want to hear audio?

If this is a laptop with an HDMI video output you may have to switch the computer's default internal speakers audio playback device to the HDMI Audio playback device.

Can you elaborate a bit more?

Steve

Sure! I have a regular 'ol 2-channel audio system and use it for movies. My laptop will be the source and has a regular HDMI output which mutes the laptop speakers when in use. I would like to extract audio from the HDMI feed going from my laptop to my TV and run it into my preamp, which accepts only RCA inputs. The device I linked to on Amazon looks fine, I just want to be sure I'm not buying something that will significantly degrade the sound or picture, and also wanted to see if there are other alternatives I have not considered. I do not think I want to buy an AVR, which I considered... I have done the surround thing in the past and I can live without it. It would be nice if more DACs had HDMI in and out as well as USB so they could be used for this purpose but aside from one at $599 I have not seen anything...

http://www.essenceelectrostatic.com/product/hdacc/

srb · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Jul 2015, 08:18 pm »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 3 Jul 2015, 07:34 pm

The device I linked to on Amazon looks fine, I just want to be sure I'm not buying something that will significantly degrade the sound or picture, and also wanted to see if there are other alternatives I have not considered.

One other alternative would be to connect the HDMI from the computer directly to the TV and feed the digital optical output from the TV into a small Dolby Digital/DTS DAC such as the FiiO D07.

I don't suppose one $50 device will be much different from the other and latency could be a potential problem with either. An advantage of this method is that any input to the TV can be sent to your preamp, including digital TV from an OTA antenna.

Steve

DaveC113 · « **Reply #5 on:** 3 Jul 2015, 09:31 pm »

Quote from: srb on 3 Jul 2015, 08:18 pm

One other alternative would be to connect the HDMI from the computer directly to the TV and feed the digital optical output from the TV into a small Dolby Digital/DTS DAC such as the FiiO D07.

I don't suppose one $50 device will be much different from the other and latency could be a potential problem with either. An advantage of this method is that any input to the TV can be sent to your preamp, including digital TV from an OTA antenna.

Steve

WRT the bolded part, if my TV had an audio output I'd have more options but to my surprise the TV has no outputs whatsoever...

srb · « **Reply #6 on:** 3 Jul 2015, 09:53 pm »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 3 Jul 2015, 09:31 pm

WRT the bolded part, if my TV had an audio output I'd have more options but to my surprise the TV has no outputs whatsoever...

I guess I may have been looking at the wrong TV manual - I was looking at the TC-P58S2.

Most Panasonic TVs don't have analog audio outputs, but yours would be the first one I've ever seen without a digital audio optical output. (Are you sure?)

Steve

DaveC113 · « **Reply #7 on:** 3 Jul 2015, 10:23 pm »

Yup, it's there... I thought I looked around thoroughly, I have no idea how I missed it!

The Fiio looks like a better option for sure, thanks!

srb · « **Reply #8 on:** 3 Jul 2015, 10:25 pm »

It would be very easy to miss if it wasn't labeled

, as in less than perfect lighting the little black plastic square jack disappears against a black background. The black plastic spring-loaded cover "door" pivots out of the way when a TOSLINK connector is inserted.

Steve

Odal3 · « **Reply #9 on:** 3 Jul 2015, 11:58 pm »

You may also want to check if the optical out on your TV downsamples the audio, which many TV sets do. For example, my couple of year old LG TV only plays stereo out on the optical if there is a HDMI input (but full Dolby if via antenna). I only have an old AVR in the living room without HDMI so I use a Google chromecast to stream netflix and misc TV shows to the TV, and use the optical out for the sound. There seems to be decent streaming boxes for most computer ecosystems, and I find the picture just as good as taking it straight out a standard computer.

I have also been starting to play around with KODI using a raspberry pi, which easily allows outputting the video over HDMI and audio over USB dac. I'm really impressed by the user-interface! http://kodi.tv/about/

Many are also using plex media servers as well and stream it to for example a chromecast or amazon firetv.

Don't forget the free over the air high definition TV. You can set-up your computer to record the shows like the DVR you get from cable and satellite companies.

RDavidson · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Jul 2015, 01:53 am »

From what I understand, any legacy digital connection will only carry the down sampled signal from the original hi-res HDMI source signal. Unless HDMI has changed, this is always the case. It is due to a stupid HDMI security protocol. Something else worth mentioning is that optical is limited to 24/96khz. Optical basically lacks the precision to carry anything higher in bandwidth.
If you want full hi resolution per HDMI, the only way to do it is keep with HDMI throughout.....or use the analog outputs from a source that does all the conversion (like an Oppo Blu-Ray etc).

DaveC113 · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Jul 2015, 05:34 am »

Quote from: srb on 3 Jul 2015, 10:25 pm

It would be very easy to miss if it wasn't labeled , as in less than perfect lighting the little black plastic square jack disappears against a black background. The black plastic spring-loaded cover "door" pivots out of the way when a TOSLINK connector is inserted.

Steve

Yeah, I'll blame the lack of light...

Odal, an antennae is part of the plan too, just have to decide if I want to stick on one the roof where the dish is right now. I might just get a cheap indoor one. It looks like that'll be enough to get all the local stations.

RD, I'll just have to decide how much I care about audio for movies... I'll probably get the $25 Fiio DAC for now and if I want to really upgrade it looks like I'd need an AV processor or Oppo player, as you said. The other option would be to get some used DAC with optical inputs that's better than the $25 Fiio and live with the downsampled digital outs.

srb · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Jul 2015, 05:58 am »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 4 Jul 2015, 05:34 am

The other option would be to get some used DAC with optical inputs that's better than the $25 Fiio and live with the downsampled digital outs.

The reason I suggested the FiiO D07 is because it's a Dolby Digital DAC. While the majority of components like disc players and cable boxes have a menu option to select a 2 channel mixdown PCM output, my Panasonic TV (and many Panasonic models) do not have that option. If the OTA broadcast is 5.1 (and most of them are) then that is what will be output from the optical digital audio output.

I don't know if an HDMI input will be automatically converted to 2 channel by the TV, but it's something to keep in mind as a conventional 2 channel DAC will not accept a Dolby Digital or DTS 5.1 signal and will produce either no sound or some kind of noise.

BTW, where did you find a FiiO D07 DD/DTS DAC for $25? Every vendor I checked lists it for ~ $50.

Steve

DaveC113 · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Jul 2015, 01:18 pm »

Looks like the Fiio D07 is $50, not sure why I said $25. Also, it looks like the Fiio will be compatible with any output I get from the TV so I will just go with that. Thanks for the warning that I can't select a 2 channel output in the TV menu.

RDavidson · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Jul 2015, 04:16 pm »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 4 Jul 2015, 05:34 am

RD, I'll just have to decide how much I care about audio for movies... I'll probably get the $25 Fiio DAC for now and if I want to really upgrade it looks like I'd need an AV processor or Oppo player, as you said. The other option would be to get some used DAC with optical inputs that's better than the $25 Fiio and live with the downsampled digital outs.

Yup. I just wanted to be sure you and others knew there is a difference between what signal HDMI carries (ie higher bandwidth signals : Dolby True HD, HD DTS, Dolby Atmos etc etc) versus legacy digital connections (ie "standard" digital : Dolby Digital, DTS ES, etc).
I'm with you. HT is not really all that important to me anymore either, and standard digital still sounds quite good (particularly for just watching TV). But, having HDMI throughout makes for a very clean and tidy setup, especially when the system will be used by others (less technically inclined) in the household.

jpm · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Jul 2015, 04:39 pm »

Purely from curiosity, I'd like to take a step back up the decision process and understand how and why you plan to use a computer. I'm offering these considerations in case they may prove a more straightforward solution and enable you to spend more time relaxing and watching TV versus tinkering!

Having been down similar roads many times over the years, I found that I was able to do everything I wanted in a far more cost effective and appliance like manner using WD TV Live and Roku. Set 'em, forget 'em, enjoy 'em. I tried using computers, but the primary audience I had to satisfy (wife) was intolerant of the non-appliance like nature of computer as a source.

I mention the WD and Roku solutions because between them, they cover every base. Chromecast is a cheap add on that may fill a niche. Oppo players now take most of my local content but they aren't cheap (compared to the others mentioned) and format support is about 95% to WD's 99.9%.

Congratulations on ditching pay megabucks TV !

Bob2 · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Jul 2015, 01:51 pm »

Here is another piece of hardware to check out if anyone is interested..https://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%201x1%20Audio%20Converter.html

I have been using their HDMI equipment for several years. They always work, ZERO problems!

DaveC113 · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 Jul 2015, 10:14 pm »

I got the Fiio and hooked it up last night, I have sound!

I'm not 100% sure the sound is perfect, it seems like some center channel info might be missing but I only watched one tv show... I'll have to see what it's like with some other programming before I make any conclusions. It seemed to sound a little weird at first then I got used to it and thought it might just be the way the sound was done for that particular show.

I also got a HD Antennae, started out with a cheap RCA non-amplified one first, if that doesn't work for local channels I'll have to get something different. I have not had time to hook that up or investigate using the computer as a DVR, I may do this at some point but I'm really busy right now...

I'm really not missing DirecTV, there is so much content online. Saving the cash is a huge bonus though!

Thanks for everyone's input, especially srb for finding my optical audio output for me.

Phil A · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Jul 2015, 12:43 am »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 17 Jul 2015, 10:14 pm

I also got a HD Antennae, started out with a cheap RCA non-amplified one first, if that doesn't work for local channels I'll have to get something different. I have not had time to hook that up or investigate using the computer as a DVR, I may do this at some point but I'm really busy right now...

Antennaweb.org will tell you the direction of stations and what type of antenna will work in your area.

ajzepp · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Jul 2015, 04:23 am »

How weird...I had never even heard of these things until today when I bought one on Amazon (stupid new Rokus don't have any audio out!!!!), and now I see an entire thread for it here on AC...freaky man!!

I hope this works...gonna try and run the roku into this, then run the optical output into my DAC. I do have a Fiio dac that I could use on the tv's optical out, but on some programming I get a really horrible noise...it's very odd.

This is the one I got...seems the Amazon peeps dig it, and it's not too pricey:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KBHX072?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00