Preamp Short List

PLMONROE · « **on:** 5 Oct 2004, 08:10 pm »

I need a preamp to match up with the following system: Wadia 831 CDP, VTL-250 Triode monoblocks, VMPS RM-40 speakers. I plan to buy used to get the most value possible and my budget for this is $3000 maximum My preesent short list consists of:
Cary SL-98
Audio Resource LS-25 MK II
Rogue Magnum 99
BAT VK-5SE
VTL 5.5
McIntoosh C-2200
I would appreciate your comments and suggestions for additions/delitions. Thanks.

Paul

byteme · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Oct 2004, 08:45 pm »

Paul,

Knowing what you're after sound-wise might help, however, I have one you might want to add to you list. I was able to find a used one for less than half your limit, but even new they are below the $3k mark. deHavilland's Ultraverve is really something else.

http://www.dehavillandhifi.com/UltraVerve-Preamplifier.htm

And while I haven't heard it I'm sure the Mercury is damn nice as well.

http://www.dehavillandhifi.com/MERCURY_PRE.htm

I haven't done a review of mine yet, but it is a fantastic sounding piece. Dead quiet, spot on imaging, HUGE soundstage, dynamic, realism in spades, big, big, BIG sound! Truely a wonderful piece. I'm done looking for preamps. This baby is SWEET! Another benefit is tubes won't cost an arm and a leg and it already comes with about the best available for it!

Couple things I forgot to mention, it's a line stage, but it doesn't look like you've got a turntable so no biggie there. It's got two outputs which is a nice feature, as well as a switch to "lift" the ground on the incoming power. Also a useful feature. I use it in a home theater set up and don't miss having a HT bypass - to me that's never been an issue because there is an EASY work around. It comes in a couple different iterations so if a remote is a necessity you can get one. I've got the non-remote version with the Goldpoint stepped attenuator and it's super.

meilankev · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Oct 2004, 08:57 pm »

Paul,

I have a few questions for you as well:

1) Do your monoblocks accept XLR (balanced) connections?
2) Is remote control an important issue? If so, what features?
3) Is your system integrated with a Home Theater? If so, how important is HT Bypass?
4) Are there a minimum number of source inputs needed?
5) How important is MM/MC capability?

Personally, I feel none of the above questions are as important as "which one sounds the best". But, if one (or more) of these features are mandatory, it would allow you (and others) to disqualify units that are lacking.

Kevin

DARTH AUDIO · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Oct 2004, 09:31 pm »

I'll second the deHaviland Ultraverve.. Big Sound.. Well built. I'm upgrading to the remote..

PLMONROE · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Oct 2004, 09:35 pm »

Good questions.
1) monoblocks do accept XLR connectors
2) remote is nice but not necessary (tie breaker maybe)
3) Do not need HT bypass
4) Need 4 source imputs
5) MM/MC capability not important
Music tastes: Clasical, opera, bluegrass, jazz, dixieland, celtic, contemporary,
light rock, pretty much the whole gamut.

Paul

Tyson · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Oct 2004, 10:13 pm »

I really like the Van Alstine T7 preamp.

zybar · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Oct 2004, 10:37 pm »

Used Bent NOH would probably work very well (if you can find one) and I haven't heard an active preamp that produced better results in the price range you are talking about.

I would also consider the following:

Placette Active (again if you can find one).
EE MiniMax with NOS tubes
Pass X-1

I think your short list is made up of all tube preamps, is that a requirement?

George

zybar · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Oct 2004, 10:40 pm »

Quote from: Tyson

I really like the Van Alstine T7 preamp.

I personally preferred the MiniMax with NOS tubes in a head to head comparison (I didn't have the upgraded "R" version when I did the comparison).

In either case, the Bent and Placette passives were superior to the T7 and MiniMax in terms of dynamics (macro and micro), detail, spatial representation, and overall "believeability".

YMMV.

George

Tyson · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Oct 2004, 10:51 pm »

The "R" upgrade does indeed improve dynamics quite a bit. There are also other mods that can be done that take it to a much higher level. I've heard these mods on another T7 and it was impressive.

zybar · « **Reply #9 on:** 5 Oct 2004, 10:55 pm »

Quote from: Tyson

The "R" upgrade does indeed improve dynamics quite a bit. There are also other mods that can be done that take it to a much higher level. I've heard these mods on another T7 and it was impressive.

Is your T7 modified?

George

Tyson · « **Reply #10 on:** 5 Oct 2004, 10:59 pm »

Has the R upgrade, but not the other mods. But it will be modded in the future (actually with more extensive mods than on the T7 I heard modded before).

robertwb · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Oct 2004, 12:05 am »

I would also look at the sonic euphoria-seems to be a good option to the NOH,except the SE is still available new

http://www.soniceuphoria.com/

PLMONROE · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Oct 2004, 01:49 am »

No, I don't care if the preamp is tube, SS, or hybrid. What I want is soundstage, imaging, transparency, and dynamics.

Paul

maxwalrath · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Oct 2004, 01:55 am »

Also take a look at modwright's pre...it sounded great in my system, and that was about 10 steps before the production model and with stock tubes.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Oct 2004, 02:37 am »

PLMONROE,

I spotted a nice preamp in Market Square for sale....Blue Circle. Might check it out. I've heard it at a few NY Rave's....very nice !!!

[/list:u]

mgalusha · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Oct 2004, 03:05 am »

Yet another vote for the deHavilland UltraVerve. It is one great sounding preamp in my book. I have head the Rouge 99 and Cary SLP-98 in the same system as the deHaviland and thought the Rouge was better than the Cary and the deHavilland was easily better than both of them.

earlmarc · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Oct 2004, 03:45 am »

I wouldn't overlook the SAS Audio Labs 10A preamplifier. Bound for Sound magizine did a review comparison of both the Ultra Verve and SAS 10A and Martin Dewulf preferred the 10A over the Ultraverve. I have also listened to and compared the Eastern Electric Mini Max with NOS tubes to the SAS 10A and felt the Minimax was outclassed by the SAS 10A.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Oct 2004, 03:57 am »

I'm quite familiar with your amps, having heard them on numerous ocassions with 8 different preamps and 4 different speakers (Alon, Audio Physics, B&W, and Revel). I own a pair of VTL MB 125, so I have a good handle on what synergestically matches with VTL stuff.

I'll only rate preamps (1 being bad and 5 excellent) that I heard with the MB250's. Recommendations of other good gear don't make sense to me, since I heard these with your amps:

1)CAT SL 1 MK III- 5 head and shoulders the best completely obliterated a 10K Krell solid state and the VTL 5.5.
2) Hovland HP100- 5 another very good match- not quite as good as I remember the CAT, but it was in a different system
3) CJ Premier 17- 4- Very good. Gave a slightly more musical sound with the VTL's than the above two, though not quite as detailed.
4) CJ Premier 14- 3.5- very good, though not quite up to the Premier 17 level with the VTL's
5) VTL 5.5- 3 - good all around, but really didn't excel at anything and juxtaposed against the CAT, what sounded "pretty good" became "inadequate."
6) Some 10K Krell solid state- 2- great bass, but way too analytical for me. Bad match.
7) Sonic Frontiers- Line 2- 4- Very neutral and seemed to just let the VTL's work their magic. An excellent match, though I'm not sure about service now.

Jadis JP80MKII- 4.5- UNBELIEVABLE on classical- ridiculous tonal color, air, and 3-d imaging. Sounds more tonally correct than any preamp I've heard for playing acoustic instruments and classical. ABSOLUTELY a TERRIBLE preamp for rock, so take note. But if you are into classical, this is the best I've heard with the VTL's.

There you go.

Michael

avahifi · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Oct 2004, 12:20 pm »

Hey Tyson, what exactly are you planning to modify in that T7R preamplifier? I would like the details. Obviously some things could be done to actually make it better if you want to spend enough money, but some things might just be expensive sugar pills. It would be nice to have before and after scope photos of actual performance in a wide range of situations to get a better understanding if modificiations (especially those done without careful mathematical circuit analysis) are really making it better. I have seen lots of "wonderful modifications" that actually just filled the product with lots of underdamped resonances and that changed operating points way out of optimum, that some people felt were really good sounding, when, in fact they were just making the unit produce sound of its own instead of being faithful to the source.

I am also a bit leary of mcrespo71's post about a preamp that sounded wonderful on classical music and terrible on rock. If the preamp was truely transparent it would not matter what kind of music it was playing. To sound good on one kind of music and bad on another likely means the preamp is changing the music significantly. Unless, of course the preamp simply more clearly told you how bad some rock music had been recorded in the first place.

Frank Van Alstine

audiojerry · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 Oct 2004, 12:53 pm »

As long as you are asking for input, and keeping in spirit with others:
A few bits of advice:

If you are buying new, take advantage of dealers/mfgr's that offer an in-home trial period. There are several really excellent suppliers available right here in the Circle that offer this.

If you are buying used, and haven't heard it yet, it's highly recommended that you buy a unit that is well known and popular. This way, if it doesn't work out, your chances of re-selling it at a reasonable price are better.

Finally, to be a little more specific, I own the Minimax and highly recommend it - especially because it is so "tuneable" to your tastes by using various combinations of tubes. It has outperformed everything I've heard before it, (and I've heard alot) Plus Eastern offers a trial period.

However, this recommendation comes with a qualifier - I recently heard Marcus's SAS 10A. It was extremely impressive, and I've requested a personal audition. SAS is a new up and coming company, and I had a chance to spend time with the owner/designer, Steve Sammet. He is really committed to building his company and wants to produce the best possible components. As part of his commitment, he offers a 45 day trial period.