Seeking opinions on best compact monitor speaker

roopaudio · « **on:** 24 Feb 2003, 01:17 am »

Hello,

I'm curious to hear multiple opinions on the best compact monitor speaker under 50lbs each and MSRP under $6000 USD/pair. I think I just found my ideal pair - but I'm not disclosing just yet. Assume the rest of the associated gear is not holding back the speaker at all - i.e. it is paired to a top-notch front end, amplifier, cables, etc... These speakers will be used in which CD's and SACD's are the primary sources (not concerned with synergy to vinyl).

Also, please elaborate on why you prefer the specific monitor, and what your most important requirements are for a stand-mount monitor speaker. I've spent the last few months auditioning quite a few of these speakers, and want to make sure I haven't missed any before I place my order.

Thanks

Rup

Woodsea · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Feb 2003, 02:16 am »

Is this RuptheKid? Wow, under 50 lbs and 6k...well all I can tell you, that under 50lbs a bit

under the stated numerals I found Brian Cheney's pipsqueaks of the ribbon nomenclature the ones to get. They both emote the speed and depth to stand alone. Plus if you "cough" care to upgrade to the new and awesome (I have experienced) tweeter you would still have enough to purchase the touted trinaural processor for us both (X-mas is not that far away and my b-day is even closer

). Ok, I have only listened to monitors under the 3k envelope but come on, these 626's rock.

massappeal85 · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 Feb 2003, 02:47 am »

It seems to me (though I could be wrong) going over $3,000 for a small monitor would be entering a realm of excessive and rediculous mark-up. If I had that much to spend however, I would probably try and audition the VMPS 626R, or a GR-Research Criterion, though I'm not sure that can be bought assembled.

audioengr · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 Feb 2003, 02:51 am »

It is hard to beat the big Harbeths. They have both tweeter and supertweeter.

JohnR · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Feb 2003, 02:57 am »

Quote

the best compact monitor speaker under 50lbs each and MSRP under $6000 USD/pair

Er... what compact monitor speakers weigh over 50 pounds or cost more than $6k?

Carlman · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Feb 2003, 04:18 am »

I agree with John... the requirements include all monitors I've ever seen or heard... or have heard or thought about...
I guess you're trying to exclude some solid stone candidates?

The best I've heard are Revel M20's (which you can get a little over 1,k used, 2,k new). But, I'm sure if you're willing to spend a lot more than that, I'm sure there are better. Does Avalon make a monitor? That would be a consideration for me in the big $$ realm.

Once you pass the 1,k per pair range, it's all a matter of preferences and tastes. I don't think you can get a 'bad' pair of monitors for over a thousand unless it doesn't suit your tastes.

The M20 suited my tastes, a lively speaker whose voice was very natural and convincing.

Good luck,
Carl

roopaudio · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Feb 2003, 04:25 am »

First off, I just want to point out that the $6K MSRP is the ceiling - like most sane people, I don't want to spend the money unless I absolutely have to. I am a firm believer in getting the most for my money. That being said...

Woodsea - I did like my audition with the 626R - they excel in almost every area, and are without a doubt an amazing deal. In my opinion though (and I will reiterate this is strictly my opinion), when listening at 84-88dB continuous @2.5m distance to full orchestra, I found the imaging to lose solidity on transients, and felt a lack of cohesion between the woofer and mid-panel. The intstruments seemed to mesh together and lose distinction at these high volumes (the peaks would be ~115dB). I know it isn't a reasonable expectation of a $2k monitor, which is why I allocated more to the budget. I don't expect full range, but I need the frequencies present to be reproduced at reference quality.

massappeal85 - you're definitely right, spending more than $3k is frivolous; nearly the same performance can be had for much, much less. Like everything in audio, diminishing returns are definitely in effect. But I require that additional refinement for my listening purposes.

audioengr - I really enjoyed listening to the Harbeths and ATC's; they're just too large though. I found the dynamics and timbre to be exceptional, though I think the imaging of the Harbeths isn't as good as some of the other monitors.

JohnR - Here's a few off the top of my head: Sonus Faber Guarneri, Wilson Cubb (kinda), Revel Gems, Talon Peregrine. There's more - I was pretty surprised myself.

tmd · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Feb 2003, 09:31 am »

Rup,
I will be shocked if you are buying these for your own listening pleasure. I am guessing you are going to do something else with them. Are you telling?
Neil.

doug s. · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Feb 2003, 04:02 pm »

rupp,

here's my list of what to audition:

vmps 626r, w/latest tweet & trt caps. the issues you mentioned re: them falling apart on loud classical may also fall apart...

meret re's - my present speakers. the more i listen to these, & the more i change other electronics, the more i am inpressed w/their ability to provide detail, & soundstage cues. and, they go loud. also, david ellis recommended against me wasting my time auditioning his bookshelf speakers as a potential replacement to my merets (to the credit of david ellis' integrity, imo). the re's were designed by kelly cunningham who started meret after he left artemis, having designed the wery similar speaker, next on my list:

artemis eos - never heard these, but since they are similar in design, & done by the same guy that did my meret's, i'd certainly like to hear 'em. they also retailed for >$2k more, iirc...

diapason adamantes III - i only heard the II's, but they were by far the most holographic, disappearing speakers i've ever heard. the III's are supposed to be even better; i'd love to try a pair in my own rig...

gr-research criterion - the comments made here & on h-d have me anxiously awaiting my turn on the demo list!

sequerra met-7.7 - never heard 'em, but the reputation of the designer, the specs, & comments of those who *have* heard 'em, make me wanna hear 'em.

reference 3a royal virtuoso - again, never heard 'em, but the comments about their considerably less-expensive sibling, the plain 3a, have definitely made me wanna audition these, too...

re: weight, my merets are yust shy of 50 lbs, the eos's are about 50 lbs, iirc, and the royal virtuosos are listed at 25kg... re: price, the eos is the only one at the retail $6k level, the meret, loaded 626r & adamantes are about $3.3k retail, the virtuoso @$4k. the criterion & the met7.7 are the cheapskates of the group, at ~$1k...

doug s.

Hantra · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Feb 2003, 05:04 pm »

I suggest you also try to fit in an audition of the Galante Rhapsody while you are looking. I heard the Symphony last week, and it was the best speaker I have heard. The Symphony is a little more extended in the bass region, but a LOT bigger than the Rhapsody.

I was looking at speakers, and I thought about spending that, but when I heard the Galantes, I backed up. I love my tubes, and the Galantes just make them sing so dynamically. Few speakers I have heard can excel at vocals, AND lower midrange acoustic guitar. These do that very well, and are still laid back, and musical. They will scare you though with just a couple of watts. Fast, and tight, and not shouty.

L8r,

B

roopaudio · « **Reply #10 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 12:37 am »

Neil - There's not much I'm allowed to say - they are for me, but to be used as a listening reference. Full range is prohibited given the restrictions dictated by the listening studio.

Doug - thanks for the suggestions. I definitely haven't listened to the version of the 626R with new tweeter and TRT's, but I'm not willing to custom-order a pair given they're non-returnable. I wish you were closer by that I could listen to the Meret's, as they sound intriguing but are difficult to come by (same situation with Artemis). The Diapason Adamantes III are absolutely wonderful - if you enjoyed the II's, you'll love the III's. The third revision (and the LE) feature the direct drive technology, meaning no crossover at all on the midwoofer, and only a single capacitor from there to the tweeter. Re: Sequerra, Virtuoso - I won't comment other than to say they weren't my preference.

Hantra - I did purchase a pair of the Rhapsody a while ago off Agon, as the price was a steal and I figured the loss would be minimal in resale shipping. Wonderful monitors - the imaging and small scale jazz was among the most enjoyable I've had the chance to listen to in my room. If I had the space and capital for a second system, these speakers would probably be it. However, the ability to resolve detail was lacking, as was transient speed, when compared to a pair of Dynaudio 1.3SE's I also had around to compare.

Thank you all for the suggestions, and please keep them coming.

Rup

jcoat007 · « **Reply #11 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 01:08 am »

I can't believe these haven't been mentioned.

$1,398 and 36 lbs.

http://www.bose.com/home_audio/pdf/m_sp_901.pdf

Quote

The World's Most Acclaimed Speaker, Regardless of Size or Price.

Hantra · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 01:28 am »

Hey Rup:

How sensitive are the Dynaudios? Are they as musical, and relaxed as the Rhapsody? How are they on vocals?

Just asking b/c I am trying to listen to everything I can before I buy.

B

roopaudio · « **Reply #13 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 02:29 am »

Hantra - regarding specs of the Danes: http://www.dynaudiousa.com/products/contour/13se/con13se.htm
The 1.3SE's are definitely not relaxed sounding when compared to the Rhapsody, but I would say that's a relative comparison and not absolute result. I found the Rhapsodys to be a mellow, relaxed speaker in general terms. I found the Dynaudios to be one of those speakers that requires an excellent system in order to shine - it's like the CLS in the respect that often people invest quite a bit more in every other component than they do the speaker. The Dynaudio can handle a ton of power, and I'd say really needs a minimum of 100WPC SS (40watts SET) to be controlled well. Even at high SPL's, the little monitors stayed extremely composed; the tweeter and woofer blend perfectly. I was familiar with the Dynaudio woofer from previously owning Gallo Nucleus speakers, and I thought the tweeter matched the woofer well in terms of detail and speed. I enjoyed my audition with the Dynaudios quite a bit, and was sorry to see them leave. The reason I did not keep them was that I want to hear a couple more speakers before I committed myself to the purchase of 1.3's. On a sidebar, the AVinci's kept up remarkably well at low to moderate volumes, which is amazing for a speaker that retailed for about $1k.

jcoat - I'll run over to Best Buy first thing tomorrow morning to pick up a pair to audition

Rup

Nikko · « **Reply #14 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 02:33 am »

The Ellis 1801s definitely belong on this list.

Doug...did Dave say the 1801s were inferior to your present speakers? I believe he was probably thinking the 1801s would be more of a lateral move as opposed to a downgrade.

Hantra · « **Reply #15 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 03:02 am »

Well it seems that a lot of the stuff that's lauded in the press is really insanely insensitive. The 1.3's being 86, and most of their speakers being that low, I doubt I should even listen to them.

It is harder than I thought it would be to find a speaker with scary vocal presence, and good lower midrange acoustic guitar. I want to get closer vocally than the Galantes, but I don't know if that's possible for my price point.

L8r,

B

EProvenzano · « **Reply #16 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 08:23 am »

At the risk of becoming an 1801 cheering section....
I did have the opportunity to listen and compare the 1801's in my room while auditioning Dynaudio 1.3SE, Joseph Audio RM7si, Totem Mani 2, and others.
I won't add my opinions except to say, that I agree with Nikko, that if the Dyn's were on your short list, the 1801's should be too.

Has anyone mentioned Merlin?

Good luck,
I'm as curious as everyone else is about your findings. You seem to be doing some very serious listening and your comments will be well taken I think.

BR,
EP

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 08:32 am »

Dollar for dollar, pound for pound, watt for watt and overall winner in *fun factor*...

MODWRIGHT SWANS M1

bubba966 · « **Reply #18 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 09:34 am »

Ever think about Pro Studio Monitors such as this?
http://www.mkprofessional.com/mps2550.html

Not sure what they run. But their consumer model of the above model is this http://www.mksound.com/satellite_speakers.html#S250 which comes in at $2,900 a pair retail.

You'll have absolutely no problem running those at levels above 90dB at 2.5m.

doug s. · « **Reply #19 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 04:54 pm »

psychic - i was waiting for ewe to chime in here, about yer swans!

swans also has a newer wersion of the m1 (dunno the model - m2?), which has a slightly larger woofer - 6.5", instead of 5.5"...

nikko, to be honest, i do not recollect dave's exact wording, other than i would prolly be wasting my time looking for an upgrade here. he *did* mention some bigger/better floor-standers he was working on...

rupp, a few questions. i take it you heard the met7.7's & the virtuoso's and weren't too impressed? the virtuoso's also have a similar crossover configuration as the adamantes'. and, if the adamantes' were so wonderful, why the continuing search?

what was it about them that dint work for ya? also, i forgot to mention the proac 1sc's - another nice monitor...

regards,

doug s.