"HIDERFEST" Oct 9th & 10th

ehider · « **on:** 4 Oct 2004, 08:15 pm »

Hi all,

This upcoming weekend (Oct 9th & 10th) I will be hosting an audio get together in West Bloomfield Michigan (approximately 50 minutes North of Detoilet).

The event will feature a six amplifier showdown along with a demo of my new Epiphany 20-21 speakers and a new "Super Monitor" that will be available in early 2005 by Ridge Street Audio. There will be plenty of other audio "surprises" as well.

Feel free to contact me via email ehider@comcast.net or phone at 248-798-9555 if you are interested in attending

.

Marbles · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Oct 2004, 08:58 pm »

Quote from: ehider

Hi all,

There will be plenty of other audio "surprises" as well.

.

Well I think I know what one of the surprises will be

Hey man, you gonna have dancing girls???

ehider · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Oct 2004, 03:27 pm »

Dancing girls?...at an audio get together?...YOU BET!

Currently we are having a brass pole cryo treated made out of 16 nines brass. The resonant points will be damped with carbon fiber cones attached to a maple floor that is suspended with Aurios bearings.

Of course the girls will be wearing nothing but Vifa Revelator silk domes to cover their privates. We'll have an FFT analysis machine present to verify that our A/B sessions can be "measured".

grub · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Oct 2004, 05:52 pm »

Have a good time Hider. I wish I could make it, but I'm down in Cincinnati these days, otherwise it'd only be an hour or two away.
-->grub

Jay S · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Oct 2004, 01:28 am »

One day, one day, I will be able to drop by one of these gatherings... who knows, if the wife is out of town and I'm in between projects and I find myself with a chunk of frequent flyer miles that need to be used...

I know that a 3rd common interest I'd have is cars... could talk about that and audio for hours!

Have a great time!

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 Oct 2004, 03:57 pm »

Any info, comments, or photo's on your fest......how's it going ??? Thanks !!!

Marbles · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 Oct 2004, 02:01 am »

Throw us dogs a bone guys? How is the fest going?

What was the word on the amps?

What are your thoughts on the speakers that were there?

Robert C. Schult · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Oct 2004, 11:47 pm »

Hi All.

Hiderfest was a great time. The gear auditioned was certainly notable but it was the caliber of people present that made it a great event. As I watched and experienced, Eric's hospitality and care for his friends is second to none. For me, it was like enjoying time at Marbles place which has always been more than I expected. Same at Eric's home. Thanks Eric! You Rock! Two other gents Steve and I got to spend some nice time with was Gregg Straley out of Chicago who is also the VP for the Chicago Audio Society and Pat Choy also of Chicago who has his own company called Perfect Amusements. Links:

Perfect Amusements The caliber of Pat's work speaks for itself by his clientele who I understand range from professional sports stars to highly respected business tycoons.

Chicago Audio Society This group of enthusiasts is noted for having access to the best of the best and being able to expand what can be expected from high performance audio...as I like to say, the difference between mere intellectually excellent hi-fi and the heart stirring performance and captivating illusion of "real".

On to the fest. Electronics included gear from Penncrest, Lloyd, Realastic and Wa-Tsatshit who I'd never heard of. NOT!

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Oct 2004, 04:46 am »

Quote from: Robert C. Schult

I'll post more on the gathering and pic's when I get back tonight

Excellent Robert ....thanks !!

Robert C. Schult · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Oct 2004, 09:34 am »

...pretty good movie. Loved the cinematography.

Someone else will have to give a better detailed account of the amps auditioned. I can say this; the amps Steve and I got to hear are the ones listed in the last post. There were a few others I think but I don't know what they were. For me, the amps that impressed me were Eric's Dodd mono blocks and the amp that Gregg brought by Stan Warren. Valve and Solid State. The Stan Warren amp had a clarity and speed that simply allowed one to enjoy the music rather than gush at the amp. The Dodd mono amps revealed tonal colors and nuances beautifully and again, I felt very connected to the music...not to the amp.

To my ears, neither amp was appreciably different than the other in terms of speed. The Dodd lacked the clarity of the Warren but man...the tonality kept you riveted in your venue side seat. The Warren lacked the tonality of the Dodd but man...the clarity just left you with an open window and the weather was very nice! I was talking with Gregg and we both agreed that you couldn't really say one was better than the other. It was simply a matter of preference. I couldn't imagine anyone not being enamored or not being able to live with either. Sorry if this seems like sort of a cop out. The music was good enough to enjoy thoroughly with either amp. I think if I had to sit there and completely nit pick everything apart, I would have missed some good music.

One other piece of gear that needs to be mentioned is Stan Warren's Active/Passive pre amp that Gregg brought. We heard a Spectral unit, as well as Dodd and Audible Illusions. I suppose that was the bane of those units...we heard them. With the Warren pre amp in the chain, it just wasn't heard. Imagine that...spending somewhere around a $1000.00 (I think) for a piece of audio gear you can't hear. I would!

On to loudspeakers. We did do a comparison between the GR-Research modified VMPS 626's and the stock VMPS 626's that were there and I got to be a part of that comparison. I preferred the modified over the stock version. Comparatively, the stock version sounded a bit sterile. The modified version had more weight and bloom without sacrificing the delineation of the stock version. The stock version also was a bit more "closed in" where the modified version gave a better sense of expanse.

The other two speakers that Steve and I spent appreciable time with was the Epiphany 20-21s and the Ridge Street Audio Designs Sason Ltd. Hopefully others will give their impressions but mine are this; The Epiphany's will impress anyone with their dynamic ease, cleanliness, and the immensity of their sound field. They are musical and are a good tool to be able to tell differences between how upstream components partner with each other as well as reveal good or bad sonic virtues of individual components. They are not as transparent as I would like but the things they do well allow one to forgive that. I'll say for having a total of 82 mechanical drivers between the pair they do a nice job at not calling attention to themselves. Over all I believe the Epiphany 20-21s are a great speaker if....you don't do what I see some folks do; put them in a small room. I imagine anything smaller than 18' x 30' would be kind of dumb if you want what these things are capable of.

The Sason Ltd...what Steve and I, understandably, had the most interest in and I have the most to say about. Hope you'll indulge me.

Our concerns were primarily two things; Eric's listening environment is a dedicated 30' x 45' listening room. That's a big room for a two way to sound balanced in! Secondly, would the 7.5' tall $27,000.00 Epiphany's performance render anything the Sasons did well meaningless by comparison?

When we first put them in for duty they sounded pretty good until you started driving them. They sounded so bad that I really thought they were broke! Steve kept assuring me it was a break in issue. It sounded so bad I couldn't believe him but...he was right. By Saturday they were sounding quite fine. After hearing the Epiphany's, here's what I didn't expect; As I told Eric, while the presentations were somewhat different, the Epiphany's had nothing on the Sasons in terms of being completely engaging with the music! I don't think Eric disagreed much with me if at all. For me personally, I preferred the Sasons. I really thought the Epiphany's would serve as a reference for the Sasons to somewhat attain to. Not so. I think they both can successfully serve as references for just about anything out there.

I said I preferred the Sasons. Let me tell you how I judged that lest I find myself caught and stuck in an ego that can only acknowledge a Ridge Street Audio product. I find that with the performance of certain audio gear or audio systems, they go beyond what can be described or experienced intellectually. The intellect is a pretty safe animal. Facts are facts and you can take them or leave them...they're pretty controllable as to what you want to do with them. On the other hand, emotions are not so safe. They show up for whatever reason and are what they are whether you like it or not...pretty uncontrollable. Notice how the things you tend to remember the easiest in your life are things that impacted you emotionally? Ever try and tell someone who is experiencing fear to just stop being afraid...it doesn't work. I could certainly communicate all kinds of facts about what I liked about the Sasons but so what? I could spout that anytime, anywhere. What I can't do is conjure up on demand what something makes me feel, in this case the Sasons. It's either there or it isn't. I find myself with a remembrance that won't go away of how the Sason's presented music. They have left an emotional impact instead of just an intellectual stimulation that I could brag about. Good thing because Steve, the engineer behind these has them in Ohio for who knows how long. But still, almost like with my wife...I want them! Because I can't forget, I want that experience again and again.

One other thing I noted. During the music of Kenny Rankin's "Because of you" CD all of us were in our own little circles chatting about this or that. The sound of spirited conversation and the music of Kenny Rankin filled the room. Into the next cut, fairly abruptly, all became almost uncomfortably silent as everyone stopped talking and we were left with Kenny having won our attention as he intimately sang to us. It was pretty cool!

Pic's...Eric's room is awesome to enjoy music in but pictures...forget about it. Steve was the only one that was able to take pictures. They aren't very good I don't think so forgive us.

Some of the gang on Saturday. Don't remember the gent in front there. Couch left to right: me and Eric. Right behind Eric is Gregg. The gent futher back I can't remember his name. All the way in the back is Andrew.

Steve and I in front of the big Epiph's

Pat Choy, Gregg Straley, Eric Hider, Andrew and Steve Rothermel behind the big Epiph's

Respectively, the Stan Warren amp and other gear awaiting their turn.

Eric's Legacy Whispers and the two pair of VMPS 626's in the foreground.

The Sason Ltd loudspeakers...135 lbs each! Stands were the best we could do for this event. Compliments of Home Depot Garden Center!

Somebody's Vandys that we weren't allowed to get near.

Steve Rothermel · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Oct 2004, 05:36 pm »

Thanks again, Eric, for a good time and the opportunity to make all this happen!

Eventually, we were able to find the guys from behind the Epiphs!

Superb textural quality on the Epiphanys - I could almost tell you what type of finger picks were used on the guitars in certain recordings

. Loved the vocals and the way the speakers portrayed the musical event with such authority; on some recordings (mainly the rock stuff) I felt like I was up on stage with the players

. I didn't expect to hear decent imaging with such large monitors but the depth layering was there and it was a no-brainer to hear the players located laterally. Congrats to the designers (you know who you are) for a job well done!

Fascinating comparison on the VMPS 626's (stock vs modified). Though I was located outside of the listening sweet spot, I recognized some appreciable differences that, nevertheless, were difficult to assess as one speaker being a clear cut winner over the other. Definitely a better balanced and "flatter" sound (again, where I was positioned) on the mod'd version. I also preferred the bass presentation on the mod'd 626. The stock version had a more laid-back upper midrange and this seemed to make them more polite - many people may prefer that balance. From there, I cannot give as much of an assessment as others situated properly and nearer the sweet spot. That's as best an input I can contribute.

I echo the comments made by Robert Schult on the Dodd Audio and Stan Warren amps. The Dodds were really challenged by a big room and especially my Sason Ltd loudspeakers (obviously lower sensitivity than the Epiphs) and so the bass hit its stops quickly when pushed. I think if you prefer acoustic music and want the solid emotional connection with the performers you'll need the Dodd over the SW amp. If you really appreciate more jump and excitement over a broader assortment of recordings and need the left brain (analytical) occupied more often, it's tough to beat the SW amp.

I want to say hello again to all those I met at the HIDERFEST 2004! gathering. Everone was gracious and without pretention. Great group!

Let's Do It Again!

audiojerry · « **Reply #11 on:** 17 Oct 2004, 05:56 am »

As I sit here at nearly 1am on this Saturday night/Sunday morning I just had to comment. It appears that I missed a great get-together. It was great for Eric to arrange it, and I really would have enjoyed meeting the guys that attended. Weren't there more?

Robert, after seeing how you look, I can't believe you're they guy who designed the best wire I've ever heard, but thanks anyway for a great summary of the event. Those Sason's look awfully impressive, and if you like the way they sound, then that's worthy of my respect, but metal dome tweeters?

I'm surprised I haven't read more comments on this thread.

Eric, I'm glad I got to see some photo's of your place and amazing equipment. I hope I can make it some day. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought you were a strong advocate for Peter's digital amp (I forget what it's called). Are the girls always there?

Steve Rothermel · « **Reply #12 on:** 17 Oct 2004, 06:22 am »

Quote

Those Sason's look awfully impressive, and if you like the way they sound, then that's worthy of my respect, but metal dome tweeters?

I'm surprised I haven't read more comments on this thread.

Uh, oh! Don't know how they appear to be metal domes, but, Definitely Not! Soft dome! I think I'm being pranked!

I am also surprised at the scarcity of posts. Not sure why.

Robert and I just got back from a concert - Academy of St. Martin in the Fields. What a refreshing and rejuvinating break from everything reproduced! Featured pianist was Christopher O'Riley. Heard works by Shostakovich, Tchaikovsky, Liszt, Mozart. The setting was my home town of Wabash, IN. Standing at the entrance to the Honeywell Center, you can see the house I grew up in. The acoustics are wonderful in the auditorium! We were seated dead center in the theatre (in row Q). Some people say they don't hear imaging at a live orchestral event but we certainly could.

jackman · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 Oct 2004, 12:24 pm »

Quote

On to loudspeakers. We did do a comparison between the GR-Research modified VMPS 626's and the stock VMPS 626's that were there and I got to be a part of that comparison. I preferred the modified over the stock version. Comparatively, the stock version sounded a bit sterile. The modified version had more weight and bloom without sacrificing the delineation of the stock version. The stock version also was a bit more "closed in" where the modified version gave a better sense of expanse.

Wow! Wait a minute, are you sure the tweeters didn't blow up? I thought the modded version (which voids the warranty because of the "dangerous" changes to the design) was supposed to damage the speaker. What gives? It appears the modded version not only didn't do any damage, it actually sounded BETTER than the original. How can that be?

I can only speculate but I feel very confident that if the original design had sounded better or if the tweeter had fried on the modded 626R, we would have gotten a huge dose of "I told you so" from the usual suspects instead of stunned silence. It appears, at least from this account the GR Research modified version of the VMPS 626 ACTUALLY sounds better than the original.

I wonder if anyone will be man enough to apologize to Danny for jumping all over him when he announced this improvement? On second thought, I don't wonder, I'm pretty sure no one will be man enough to step up and admit they may have been wrong when they criticized Danny's modification to the original design.

Secondly, I'm really sorry I missed the Hiderfest! Had some work stuff that I couldn't get out of but I really regretted not being able to make it. Eric is a great guy who knows an awfull lot about audio. Sounds like I missed a great time.

Cheers,

Jack

Marbles · « **Reply #14 on:** 17 Oct 2004, 03:50 pm »

The stock 626R's were mine.

I was asked a few months ago, if I wanted to have the modded 626's to compare with mine at my mini marblefest.

I declined as I did not want to get involved in that pissing match.

While at the MiniMarblefest, Eric asked if he could use my 626's as he would have the modded ones at his place. I said sure under a couple of conditions.

1. My stock 626's are used as rear surrounds, and have only been used that way. He must adjust the pots to get them to sound as good as he can in his room.

2. He must take them and bring them back. No shipping. I didn't want to take a chance on shipping damage.

Long story short, Eric is bringing my 626's back today.....along with the GR Research modded speakers.

My thoughts are that it would cost $600 plus shipping to have danny mod a set, and since these are only used as side/surround speakers in an HT enviornment, it would have to be a substantial improvement for me to do this. Since I also XO the speakers at anywhere from 50-70 HZ, most of the advantages of what I have read would be negated.

That being said, I am looking forward to hearing both sets as mains. I have not heard the 626's as anything other than surrounds in my system.

I did hear the 626's set up as mains at the Midwest Audiofest in Lima about 18 months ago, but they were XO'd to a VMPS larger sub.

I will run them both full range and report what I hear.

NOTE: My "stock" 626's have no cap upgrade (I do have another pair that have auricaps) they do however have lambswool instead of fiberglass insulation behind the midrange panel.

zybar · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 Oct 2004, 04:02 pm »

Quote from: jackman

Wow! Wait a minute, are you sure the tweeters didn't blow up? I thought the modded version (which voids the warranty because of the "dangerous" changes to the design) was supposed to damage the speaker. What gives? It appears the modded version not only didn't do any damage, it actually sounded BETTER than the original. How can that be?

I can only speculate but I feel very confident that if the original design had sounded better or if the tweeter had fried on the modded 626R, we would have got ...

Jack,

Why stir up trouble with this post?

What does anybody gain by starting that battle again?

Everybody who was part of that fiasco knows that it wasn't as simple as having the 626's modified and possibly made to sound better.

Let's just leave that all in the past and let people enjoy their gear and the music.

George

zybar · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Oct 2004, 04:05 pm »

Quote from: Marbles

The stock 626R's were mine.

I was asked a few months ago, if I wanted to have the modded 626's to compare with mine at my mini marblefest.

I declined as I did not want to get involved in that pissing match.

While at the MiniMarblefest, Eric asked if he could use my 626's as he would have the modded ones at his place. I said sure under a couple of conditions.

1. My stock 626's are used as rear surrounds, and have only been used that way. He must adjust the pots to get them to sound as good a ...

Looking forward to your comments Rob. I am sure you will give an unbiased, straight forward report.

George

jackman · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 Oct 2004, 04:52 pm »

I'm not trying to cause any trouble but it seems strange that all of the feedback I have heard regarding the modded 626's, both in this thread and over email from others who have heard them, has been very positive. If the modded version sounded worse or if it caused problems with the tweeters, as Brian warned, I'm absolutely certain we would hear from the "I told you so" crowd.

A lot of people have offered speculation about Danny's motives for making the mods, but unfortunately, none of these people have actually heard the speakers side by side with the original design. So far, I have yet to hear anyone prefer the original design to the modded version. That seems a bit strange if I am to believe Danny's revision was merely an attempt to discredit a competitor. There were several people who chose to make this a personal attack without even hearing the revised speakers. It appears there may be some validity to Danny's original comments regarding the untapped potential of these speakers.

Marbles, since you are using these speakers as surrounds, I agree that a $600 expense would probably not be worth it, even if they do sound better (I'm not saying they do because I haven't heard them). Many people use these as main speakers and, if the mods are an improvement, $600 may not be out of line. Either way, I look forward to your comments on the new design. You as a very honest guy, I have complete faith that you will provide excellent feedback.

Cheers,

Jack

Marbles · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 Oct 2004, 05:26 pm »

If I prefer the modded 626R, my reporting of it would only be for one reason.

That is so that Brian could look at some of his design choices to see if he could make them better at the same cost, make them better and increase the base cost, or make them better and make them options.

In the past, Brian has made a habit of making changes to his speakers that he deems are better.

IF I think that the mods to the XO and cabinet, and I think that MLS has already made mods to the cabinet, are better, than maybe BC will take a look to see if he can do the XO better.

It's unrealistic to think that BC will eliminate the L pad, as Danny did, but that doesn't mean that the XO can't be better designed.

If I like the stock version better, than that would mean to me that BC's design choices were pretty damn good from the start and no changes probably need to be made.

In any case, I have all the VMPS speakers I need right now and any future changes will probably not effect me much.

I don't feel any pre-report bias to either speaker and will report my findings as biasly as possible.

Stay tuned.

Also, Eric will only be here for a little more than 2 hours and we need to record an LP to a CD in that time, and listen to some IC's, The Cryotweaks
and some not quite broken in Chris VH Pulsars.

It will be a very busy late afternoon.

zybar · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 Oct 2004, 05:38 pm »

Rob,

Are the Pulsars the cryo version? How many hours are on them?

I found that they needed a lot of hours on them before they were done getting better.

Sounds like a fun afternoon (I am having my own get together this afternoon with my two boys!! Looks like they both like Johnny Cash and Nirvana Unplugged).

George