Stand height has made a huge difference

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Sense63

Stand height has made a huge difference
« on: 13 Jun 2015, 02:42 pm »
FWIW, I wanted to let everyone know of a significant change (for the better) stand height made for my Omegas.  I have a pair of Custom Shop Super Alnico monitors (7" Alnico) and have been listening for months on a custom pair of stands at 19".  They sounded so good, I decided to sell my pair of Harbeth Super HL5 plus speakers.  The stands were made for the Harbeths, but when sold, I sold the stands with them.  I was then forced to use an old pair of 16" stands I hadn't used in a while thinking I would have to purchase a pair of Skylans eventually, but what a difference 3" of height made in my 12 x 20 room.  All of a sudden, there was more body to the sound and much more evenness to the presentation.  I was pleasantly surprised at how much better the speakers now sound.  In terms of percentage, I would say at least 20% better.  Keep in mind, my original set up at 19" made me sell my Harbeths which retail for over $7k. 

I realize this may not work for everyone, but I wanted to share my experience.

rob303

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Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #1 on: 13 Jun 2015, 03:24 pm »
A couple Qs:

 - Are the speakers angled at all or flat?
 - With the 16" stands, at what height is the center of the driver and how does this compare to ear height at listening position?

Thanks!

Sense63

Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #2 on: 13 Jun 2015, 03:35 pm »
The speakers are flat and the height at the center of the driver is 34" which takes into account the added 1" of the spikes, so the height actually ends up being 17".  The ear height is approx. 2-3" above the center of the driver.
« Last Edit: 13 Jun 2015, 05:20 pm by Sense63 »

andycsb

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Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #3 on: 13 Jun 2015, 05:15 pm »
Hi Sense63. Have shortlisted the Harbeths super 5HL plus, Omegas (probably Super Alnico Monitors...but not sure yet) and Ref 3a De Capo be. In what way did the Harbeths sound different from the Omega super alnico monitors? Were the 5HL easy to drive? Priority in SQ would be image size (lifelike instrument size)...full bodied/vivid vocals and overall rich sound...detailed but definitely non etched highs. Room...10 x 14 x 9. I would be most grateful for any feedback and advise.

Thanks...:)

Sense63

Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #4 on: 13 Jun 2015, 05:42 pm »
The Harbeths are a wonderful speaker and give you all the things you require, i.e. full bodied, natural sounding vocals and overall rich sound.  They are also detailed, but absolutely with no grain or glare.  The best way I can describe the difference between Harbeth and Omega (Super Alnico) is the Harbeth is like listening to a great recording while the Omegas are like you're listening to a live performance.  The Harbeths may have a little more bass, but I never noticed a big difference, especially when I lowered the listening height of the Omegas.  The Super Alnico also provides what you're looking for as described above, but more life like.

One caution....the Harbeths may be a little too much for your room size.  Remember too, the Harbeths are about 3X the cost of the Super Alnicos and my personal feeling is you can use the extra money on the front end or in your amplification.  I hope that helps.

ozoid

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Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #5 on: 14 Jun 2015, 05:07 pm »
FWIW, I wanted to let everyone know of a significant change (for the better) stand height made for my Omegas.  I have a pair of Custom Shop Super Alnico monitors (7" Alnico) and have been listening for months on a custom pair of stands at 19".  They sounded so good, I decided to sell my pair of Harbeth Super HL5 plus speakers.  The stands were made for the Harbeths, but when sold, I sold the stands with them.  I was then forced to use an old pair of 16" stands I hadn't used in a while thinking I would have to purchase a pair of Skylans eventually, but what a difference 3" of height made in my 12 x 20 room.  All of a sudden, there was more body to the sound and much more evenness to the presentation.  I was pleasantly surprised at how much better the speakers now sound.  In terms of percentage, I would say at least 20% better.  Keep in mind, my original set up at 19" made me sell my Harbeths which retail for over $7k. 

I realize this may not work for everyone, but I wanted to share my experience.

Thanks for this. I'm waiting on a set of Alnico monitors also. (My drivers will be 6", however. Didn't know there was a 7" option.) I think their temporary home will be a bit too high so I'm planning on angling them down.

My cabinets will be 24H x 14W x 9.5D, what are the dimensions of your Alnico 7 monitor cabinets?

Sense63

Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #6 on: 14 Jun 2015, 06:26 pm »
They are the same dimensions as the Super Alnico monitor:  20 x 14 x 10  Yes, Louis had a few of the 7" Alnico drivers and offered them as a custom shop order. 

doggie

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Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #7 on: 18 Jun 2015, 01:21 am »
FWIW, I wanted to let everyone know of a significant change (for the better) stand height made for my Omegas.  I have a pair of Custom Shop Super Alnico monitors (7" Alnico) and have been listening for months on a custom pair of stands at 19".  They sounded so good, I decided to sell my pair of Harbeth Super HL5 plus speakers.  The stands were made for the Harbeths, but when sold, I sold the stands with them.  I was then forced to use an old pair of 16" stands I hadn't used in a while thinking I would have to purchase a pair of Skylans eventually, but what a difference 3" of height made in my 12 x 20 room.  All of a sudden, there was more body to the sound and much more evenness to the presentation.  I was pleasantly surprised at how much better the speakers now sound.  In terms of percentage, I would say at least 20% better.  Keep in mind, my original set up at 19" made me sell my Harbeths which retail for over $7k. 

I realize this may not work for everyone, but I wanted to share my experience.

Thanks for the post. I have some Custom Shop Super 6 Alnico floor-standers. The are like the current XRS but have a bottom firing port and the spikes are all the same height so there is no tilt back. I noticed that I liked the sound better when I slouched on my sofa while listening. This led me to investigate tilting them back a bit by putting a short wedge under the front spike. I found that I like them much more this way. I also experimented with various toe-in angles and found that to matter also. These are great speakers.




Canada Rob

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Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #8 on: 18 Jun 2015, 02:30 am »
My cabinets will be 24H x 14W x 9.5D, what are the dimensions of your Alnico 7 monitor cabinets?
Ozoid,
Skylan can make stands to fit your speakers.  Louis already has a pair of the stands for his own use.

andycsb

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Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #9 on: 18 Jun 2015, 01:10 pm »
The Harbeths are a wonderful speaker and give you all the things you require, i.e. full bodied, natural sounding vocals and overall rich sound.  They are also detailed, but absolutely with no grain or glare.  The best way I can describe the difference between Harbeth and Omega (Super Alnico) is the Harbeth is like listening to a great recording while the Omegas are like you're listening to a live performance.  The Harbeths may have a little more bass, but I never noticed a big difference, especially when I lowered the listening height of the Omegas.  The Super Alnico also provides what you're looking for as described above, but more life like.

One caution....the Harbeths may be a little too much for your room size.  Remember too, the Harbeths are about 3X the cost of the Super Alnicos and my personal feeling is you can use the extra money on the front end or in your amplification.  I
hope that helps...

@sense63...thank you so much for your generosity with your time. When you say the Omegas were like listening to a live performance....could it be it has more of a 'raw' presentation compared to the harbeths? Less refined in the top end but as vivid like in a good recording (harbeths).


andycsb

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Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #10 on: 18 Jun 2015, 01:17 pm »
@Sense63....

.....continued...I meant...do you mean that it has more of a raw presentation. Seeking the more musical and more refined in the top end of the two. I guess...balanced and not hot in the HF. Thanks again.

seikosha

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Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #11 on: 18 Jun 2015, 02:19 pm »
@Sense63....

.....continued...I meant...do you mean that it has more of a raw presentation. Seeking the more musical and more refined in the top end of the two. I guess...balanced and not hot in the HF. Thanks again.

I can't speak for Sense63, but I have owned Harbeths (P3ESR) and Omegas (RS5XRS)at the same time and I think I know what he's trying to describe.  Compared to the Harbeths, the Omegas have an immediacy that the Harbeths just can't produce.  The initial attack of a note and then just as importantly, letting that note stop and the next one start.  No question, the Harbeth is very smooth and refined and now that I think about it, I can't think of a recording I ever played on the Harbeth that was ever hot.  That's good unless the recording is hot to begin with.  If that's the case, the Omega will tell you that, they won't hide things.

When I'd been listening to Harbeths for a few weeks and then switched to the Omegas, my first thought was always "oh, these are really lively and not quite fleshed out enough in the lower midrange" but you quickly get used to the change and soon don't think that at all.  When you go from the Omegas to the Harbeths, the transition is much more dramatic and you think "oh, these are very syrupy and slow and missing out on detail" and it will take a few days before your ears adjust and you stop noticing this.

Having multiple setups really has taught me that our ears will adjust to certain sounds and flaws.  Our brains want to hear things in a certain way and over time, seem to make adjustments in perception to allow this to happen.  When you can switch between multiple components and rooms, this becomes very apparent.

Sense63

Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #12 on: 18 Jun 2015, 03:54 pm »
Seikosha,

I couldn't have explained it any better than you did.....thanks!

Bayreuth

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Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #13 on: 21 Feb 2016, 10:17 pm »
What's the best range of speaker height for the Omega Super Alnico Monitors?  I think the Skylan stands for the Super Alnico Monitors are 20 inches tall.  Is it most ideal to have the center of the Alnico driver positioned exactly at ear height at the listening position?

pstrisik

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Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #14 on: 21 Feb 2016, 10:35 pm »
What's the best range of speaker height for the Omega Super Alnico Monitors?  I think the Skylan stands for the Super Alnico Monitors are 20 inches tall.  Is it most ideal to have the center of the Alnico driver positioned exactly at ear height at the listening position?

Or lower with some tilt back.  The center of mine are at 29" and I have them slightly tilted.

........Peter


Bayreuth

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Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #15 on: 21 Feb 2016, 10:41 pm »
Thanks Peter.  Are you using custom stands?

I've been thinking about either Skylan stands or Sound Anchors for the Omega Super Alnico Monitors.


Or lower with some tilt back.  The center of mine are at 29" and I have them slightly tilted.

........Peter

DaveC113

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Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #16 on: 21 Feb 2016, 10:43 pm »
I'd get stands that are a little lower and use IsoAcoustics stands between the speaker and the stand. You'd want the stand to be sturdy and coupled securely to the floor, the IsoAcoustics stand provide decoupling. It makes a big difference.

pstrisik

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Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #17 on: 22 Feb 2016, 12:44 am »
Thanks Peter.  Are you using custom stands?

I've been thinking about either Skylan stands or Sound Anchors for the Omega Super Alnico Monitors.

I guess you could say custom stands  :wink: .........

I currently have a bit more tilt than your see here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=134489.msg1497596#msg1497596




DBC

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Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #18 on: 22 Feb 2016, 03:08 pm »
Some time back I posted my impressions on the effect of speaker height, see reply #23 here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=140636.msg1500188#msg1500188

My SAM's sound great on the Large Isoacoustic stands closer to the floor & tilted back. Given the affordability & adjust-ability of the Isoacoustic stands I think they are a great deal.

jimdgoulding

Re: Stand height has made a huge difference
« Reply #19 on: 22 Feb 2016, 06:00 pm »
As a general rule, tweeters should be at ear level IME.